boleta

I have now watched 4 or 5 SPLs with the same

Welcome to the campfire, Ken. Pull up a log and enjoy the conversation.

I was in Maui 2 weeks ago on a family vacation. We got to see Lindbergh's burial site and the Olivene pool among many other beautiful areas of the island. Virginia will never seem the same.

Oooops.

I just reviewed the 2004 National Quality Unit Award form and could not find a requirement to hold uniform inspections. Perhaps this was removed or it is a council requirement. Sorry for the mistake, but inspections are still a good way to encourage wearing the uniform(This message has been edited by boleta)

I did not say you had to pass the inspection. You are simply supposed to have an inspection twice yearly. Clean face and hands- 4 points, clean nails- 4 points, official pants- 15 points! This is out of a total of 100 points.

A recent thread on uniforms discussed how to encourage moving to a full uniform unit. This can be done in a positive manner by recognizing individual boys in full uniform, recognizing patrols where all members are in full uniform and so on. Be creative and encourage a full uniformed unit. You can do it!(This message has been edited by boleta)

Why not take your own photos at troop, district and council events?

If you want to know what is included in the field uniform (sometimes called the class A), look at your youth inspection form. Inspections are required twice yearly in Boys Scouts to get Quality Unit. Points are taken off for missing parts of the uniform, INCLUDING pants. Many of us who are sticklers for the proper wearing of the uniform think that blue jeans and other irregular pants look silly with the Boy Scout uniform.

Merit Badges are already organized into different groupings. In the 60's and 70's, the Eagle requirements were such that you had to have a certain number of MBs from different groups. I don't have the list in front of me and I don't know when that was changed back to the current system of 12 Eagle Required and any 9 others.

There must have been a good reason to change it back to the current system and not require one from column A and one from column B and so on.

Let's not be politically naive. When the proposition of a 50 cent tax on gasoline, (to be used for repair of infrastructure, research into alternatives, new road construction and to promote conservation) is met by ridicule and then distortion to defeat the person who proposed it, then no changes will occur. Ross Perot proposed this in 1992 and it was fairly well recieved at that time (before he was considered to be an eccentric nut).

Remember to quote me when the Saudis have control of Iraq's oil, too. Coming to the future near you. You heard it from me first.

Near beer would be allowed, but what's the point?

If it were consumed for personal choice, why make it public? Nothing would stop this fellow from drinking this substitute in private and not making a big deal out of it. Obviously, something else is going on that he would make a "statement" by bringing near beer to the event and drinking it openly. Probably because there is a rule against drinking alcohol.

I am reminded of the cartoon of 2 men in business suits standing on a city street corner under a sign that reads, "No juggling chain saws". One businessman says- "I suddenly have the urge to juggle chain saws." Human Nature.

I completed BSA Lifeguard in 2001. My son took American Red Cross Lifeguard Training this summer. I have the new BSAL instructors manual to review for the recertification and it has difinitely changed.

I think the A and B den idea is a good one. It is just another way to get more parents involved. That way if something happens to the DL team (a move out of the area or something unpredicted) you will have backup in place.

And Den Chiefs!!! Get some Boy Scouts from the Troop you feed into to be Den Chiefs to help out. They need the PORs and you need the help.

Fuzzy,

Insightful as usual. But, I think, perhaps, that you are an expert in dealing with these kids with special needs. I am not. And I can't help but wonder sometimes how much the parents facilitate the behavioral problems.

My wife and I have wonderful friends who cannot say no to their children. It drives us crazy when they misbehave and are told to stop, repeatedly, with no consesquences to their actions. Guess what? The kids know no limits to their behavior and there is no discipline in their lives.

The challenged scout in this thread, let's call him Bobby, may have given enough reasons on the shakedown hikes to deny his attendance at Philmont. If there were problems on the shakedown hikes and he was still allowed to go, then you are telling the other Scouts that there is one set of rules for them and another set for Bobby. If Bobby knows that profanity or misbehavior after specific warnings results in being sent home, and it is enforced, then the misbehavior will stop or Bobby will be gone.

I would like to hear from Mike as to the specific problems that occurred and how they were handled. How did this affect the other Scouts? It has been my experience that the kids really resent it if a double standard of behavior is allowed to occur. Scout Oath and Law and all that.

My son was awarded Eagle last summer at the age of 14 1/2. He went to a high adventure summer camp with his troop. The minimum age was 13. Our troop has a similar boy to the one described in this thread who is constantly challenging authority and has a poor relationship with the other Scouts. My son's summer camp experience was ruined by this boy. The COPE experience was not good when one member of the team refused to try and was a constant negative force. That was the story all week long. My son subsequently decreased his Boy Scout activity and went to Venturing.

I am glad your challenged Scout had a great time. Kids like him probably need the Scouting program more than kids like my son. Your crew probably learned a lot about how to deal with challenged youth. I hope he didn't ruin the trek for the others. It's kinda sad when you come back from Philmont and say "but we're all glad it's over."

I congratulate you and your crew for accepting this tremendous challenge.(This message has been edited by boleta)

The Eagle service project was added as a separate and distinct requirement for Eagle in 1965. It stated:

While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and carry out a service project helpful to your church or synogogue, school, or community approved in advance by your Scoutmaster.

That is considerably different than the present requirement which is now a LEADERSHIP project:

While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.) The plan must be approved by...

The main emphasis now is on Leadership. In our District, the Advancement Chair reviews all projects. He/she wants to see that the Scout can properly follow the instructions. That includes plan the project, develop it, properly complete the Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workbook (as required) and then LEAD the project to completion. In my opinion, the Project itself is less important than the Leadership that is demonstrated to complete it.

A common problem is that the final signatures for the completed project are only the Scoutmaster and the institution representative that benefitted from the project. The Eagle Board of Review may not have a full understanding of the changes that occurred to the project during its development. Rarely is the project intact at the end of the process. We like to have the District Advancement Chair on the Board of Review since he approved the project in the first place.

I am in total agreement with Eammon.

And in the spirit of scouting, I assume he follows the Oath and Law until I have proof otherwise. He says "I kinda thought that this being a Scouter Forum, that I could trust the people to be what they say they are." Trustworthy.

I was shocked into reality at the age of 12 when I took my small patch collection to a Camporee and had it stolen out of my tent by a fellow Scout. I couldn't believe that a Boy Scout could ever do such a thing. I was naive.

In the Eagle Rank discussion, when I quoted a Journal to support a point I was making, FOG decried it implying I was lying or making it up. And when I mentioned that I was an Eagle Scout, he responded with the knowledge of several Eagles in jail or divorced as cheats.

We can disagree without insulting or demeaning each other. That would be the adult AND Scoutlike thing to do. I will also trust until I have reason to do otherwise.

I give my FOS donation to support my council, not to get a patch. I do not view the patch as being purchased by the large sum that is usually required to get it. It is just a recognition of the donation, in my opinion.

Welcome back BW. Many of us appreciate the return of your expertise. The timing is noted.

Early in my Forum career, I defended the right of any old curmudgeon to post and allow members to evaluate and determine its benefit or lack thereof. If you didn't like what was said, squelch or ignore them.

Then came Jason. Then FOG became the senior most member of this Forum. Then the personal nature of the attacks became clear to me, even though we all were warned.

My kind description of FOG as boorish in the "Eagle Rank or Award" thread has now been upheld by none other than Scouter-Terry. It is always a pleasant surprise to be found in such good company.

As to the rest of the explanation- Spot On!

So... let the rest of us in on it.

2 years ago I saw a 28 year old woman in my office. She was being seen for some minor problem when I noticed a small mass in her left neck. After examining her, I found several swollen lymph nodes on both right and left sides. She told me her family doctor told her it was nothing to worry about. I had a frank discussion with her about what this might be and strongly encouraged her to let me take her to the OR and do a biopsy. The result was lymphoma (a cancer of the lymph system) and I referred her to an oncologist.

To my surprise, I received a letter from her today. I hadn't seen her since my referral to the oncologist 2 years ago. She wanted to thank me for finding the mass and insisting on the biopsy. She was cancer free after Chemotherapy that almost killed her. It felt great to know that I was partly responsible for saving her life.

So much of my identity is tied up in being a surgeon. It is also in being a Scouter and contributing to this great organization. My legacy is my wonderful family, the patients that I have had the opportunity to help, and the youth that we serve that are our future.

If we had pursued a Hydrogen powered economy in 1974 with the first petroleum crisis, we would be well on our way to energy independence now, 30 years later. The byproduct is water.

If we had pursued a conservation policy that increased auto efficiency for improved gas mileage, we would not be importing vast amounts of foreign oil at this time.

But, we are here and it is now. It is interesting to come into this thread late and agree with many aspects of both sides of the argument. It is also nice to be out of the attack loop.

As a District Committee Chairman, I would have hated to lose such a dynamic Scouter like you. I would have preferred meeting and knowing you at the District Committee. There, you would have been able to voice your concerns and the problem could have been resolved in an honest and open manner. Did you try this approach?

The signalling suggestion makes me think that a topic like "traditional scouting" or "scouting history" would be good ones.

I agree that the activities could be used for some advancement requirements as discussed by Mike F.

After discussing the issues at a parents' meeting, you could make it clear that leaving an event early must be approved in advance. Leaving the clean-up of the troop acitvity to all others and not helping with this part of the event is truly not scoutlike or showing scout spirit.

The boys, however, should not suffer for the misbehavior of their parents. That seems to be part of what is happening here. Are the boys in leadership positions? If not, how do they advance. If yes, then they must fulfill their obligations to get credit for their PORs.

You have several avenues for resolving this conflict, hopefully in a constructive way.

I've read Wheeler and this is nothing like that. Someone asks a legitimate question about the Eagle Rank being described as an Award. Since I knew the historical context of why it was called an award and that it was originally not a rank, I thought I would share that with the Forum.

The "conflict" that followed is nothing new and centers on the bizarre sense of humor of our senior curmudgeon.