boleta

(This message has been edited by boleta)

FOG,

and your are hilarious.

FOG, No, I did not lie. You are boorish. And as an Eagle Scout I REALLY resent your implications.

But since you insist.

Maybe you can find these books in your local Scout library:

Boy Scouts of America Official Handbook by ET Seton and LG Sir RSS Baden-Powell KCB 1910, Page 11, "Test for Scout Badges Tenderfoot... Second Class... First Class."

Page 14, "Badges of Merit" 14 listed.

Page 19, "Medals

Bronze Cross... For saving life at risk to own. Silver Cross... Medal of Merit..."

and "the Silver Wolf".

Boy Scouts of America the Official Handbook for Boys 1911,

Page 16-17, "The Three Classes of Scouts... Tenderfoot... Second-class Scout... First-class Scout."

Page 23-43, "The Merit Badges"

Page 43, "Life Scout The life scout badge will be given to all first-class scouts who have qualified for the following five merit badges: first aid, athletics, life-saving, personal health, and public health.

Star Scout The star scout badge will be given to the first-class scout who has qualified for ten merit badges. The ten include the list of badges under life scout.

Eagle Scout Any first-class scout qualifying for twenty-one merit badges will be entitled to wear the highest scout merit badge... and represents the all-round perfect scout."

ps The first 9 Eagle Scouts in 1912 were, Arthur Eldred (21 MBs), Earl Marx (21 MBs and achieved Life and Star), Roy Young (24 MBs), Sidney Clapp (31 MBs and first adult to earn the Eagle), Robert T. Pleasants (24 MBs), Leon VanVliet (24 MBs), Bertram VanVliet (21 MBs), JS Langthorn (23 MBs), Francis Edwards (22 MBs).(This message has been edited by boleta)

I keep reading these threads because of the wonderful input of new members like JDaigler. It is refreshing to hear new and different opinions from a junior member of the Forum. Welcome.

Although I do not agree with Rooster, I respect his beliefs. I have many friends who feel the same way. They know I do not agree and respect my beliefs as well (although they are concerned because they "know" that I am going to hell). When there are mutually exclusive religious beliefs, there is no point in arguing correctness of those beliefs. A religion that instructs its members to save others from damnation by converting them to the fold cannot help but insult the other members and be offensive to them. From his posts in other threads, I do not think Rooster would impose his beliefs on a Scout before him on a BOR.

To question the Scout about how he fulfills his duty to God and his reverence is acceptable. Hopefully, if the answer does not conform to a BOR member's narrow view of how this should be fulfilled, the Scout would not suffer for the difference.

The last time I was called a liar, I was under oath in a court room. Our side won when the jury believed me.

Here we go again. Old Gray Eagle, get ready!!! Zoroastrians unite!

Sorry mjlil,

But it hasn't always been...

Guess you didn't read my post.

I'm with FOG here. You need 2 adults for Youth Protection, maybe 4 on a high adventure trip- 2 to go with a possible injured scout and 2 to stay with the main group. Otherwise, the scouts have more responsibility, teach each other more, and do more with fewer adults.

Merlyn,

Surprisingly, I agree with most of your ideology about approaching the issue of religious freedom in the U.S. This has nothing to do with the BSA's ability to define itself, though.

I do not agree with your continued manner of making your points by insulting the members of the Forum. I know I have been guilty of this myself. But with the recent bannishment of several members of the Forum because of their boorish behavior, I think we should all have a higher level of consideration and make our points without the insults. Words like ignorant and ineducable to describe a person here are not necessary to make your point. It is the attitude that is reprehensible to you. Maybe that's OK. But I don't think it is necessary to describe the person you are conversing with the way you do.

The order was changed to Star, Life and Eagle in 1925.

Terry Grove wrote a great article on this in Vol. 1 No. 4 Dec. 2001 of the International Scouting Collectors Association Journal.

In 1908, Baden-Powell outlined four badges of honour- Signalling, First Aid, Stalking and Merit. The Merit badge was earned for 20 good marks of various good deeds. The badge of "Wolf" was given as a reward of special distinction.

In 1909 B-P revised the system and added 10 additional badges of honour. If a scout earned all 14 badges he was given the highest honor- the "Silver Wolf".

In 1910, Seton received permission from B-P to use Scouting for Boys in the Boy Scouts of America - Official Handbook. There were 14 listed badges of Merit and the highest award was the Silver Wolf. When James West became the first Chief Scout Executive on Jan. 1, 1911, he established several committees to advance scouting. One committee adopted B-P's advancement system but added new badges of merit bringing the total to 57. The first handbook was published in August 1911 and the highest award was renamed Eagle.

Life, Star and Eagle were considered super badges of merit which could be earned, but not considered rank advancements. Life could be earned by a First Class Scout who passed the tests for badges of merit: Athletics, First Aid, Lifesaving, Personal Health an Public Health. Star could only be earned by earning Life and any additional 5 merit badges. There were no specific MBs for the 21 required for Eagle. A scout could go directly to Eagle without earning Life and Star!!!!

Only one of the first 9 Eagle Scout Awards was given to a Scout who had also earned Life and Star.

The answer to the question is historical.

The original program in 1910 had First Class as the highest rank. This could be followed by the awards of Life- 5 specific merit badges, Star- 5 additional specific merit badges, and Eagle, 21 of any of the merit badges. The Star and Life awards were rearranged in their order and then Eagle became a rank.

Found it!!

It is also called a Man of War Sheepshank. Search for it on Google. It looks like this:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Mano'-war%20sheep-shank%20knot

For some reason this is not using the entire link. You'll need to type in the above address to use the link.(This message has been edited by boleta)

This shows how to do the 3 loop sheepshank with a loop technique:

http://www.boatsafe.com/marlinespike/sheepshank.htm

Make 4 loops instead. Pull the 2nd loop to the right and the 3rd loop to the left using the same technique. Then try it with 5 loops.

Sheepshank. 3 loop, 4 loop, and 5 loop with a square knot(sorta) in the center. I'll try to find it on the web and send you a link.

What I have described happens every day. The only difference is that the homosexual boy scout does not tell his friend or anyone else. He is in your Troop and simply does not say anything. He is not acting "gay". That is, if he wants to remain a Scout. He only has to be a hypocrite. How Scoutlike.

At 16, he is probably terrified about the confusion he is going through. One of my best friends in high school went through this and ultimately resolved the severe confusion of his sexual orientation at the age of 22. He is a successful physician in Ohio treating AIDS patients.

Rooster, I do respect the depth of your faith and the way you defend it. I was greatly impressed with one of your posts in the True Religion thread where you also defended the right of other members of your Scouting unit to have another faith even though you disagreed with the faith itself.

Packsaddle,

Spot on!

NJCS

Spot on!

Much of the remainder of this post has been deleted by boleta. Thank God for the backspace button.

Makes as much sense as...

[Name religion here].

This is a discussion of a Scouting issue. Not a bible issue or a Christianity issue. Rooster keeps bringing his Christian morality into the discusseion which is why I suggested we keep in mind that BSA does not care how we do duty to God or show reverence, just that we do.

If you think there are not different versions of Christian morality, just put an Evangelical, Greek Orthodox, and Koptic Christian in the same room together and enjoy the conversation.

Finally, consider an 11 year old boy who joins Boy Scouts and is a great Scout. He discovers at age 16 that he is gay and decides to be honest with his best friend who is not and tells him about it. He never acts on his homosexuality and is otherwise a model scout. His friend violates the confidence and everyone finds out. Throw him out? According to the intolerant folks in this thread- yes. I see no reason this should be the course of action unless he acts upon his sexual orientation which is the only thing not acceptable here.

The esteemed puller of the trailer in our Troop gets gas money reimbursed with receipts for trips over 1 hour away.

Since you want public prayer so badly, allow me to choose the one we will all use.

Thank you for being so gracious in your religious tolerance, Rooster, BSATSPL, FOG, and the rest.

I choose the Hari Krishna chant. Please don't thank me so. Oh, and by the way, no other prayer will be tolerated publicly. If you don't want to chant, don't. If you want something else, pray quietly to yourself.

You guys continue to amaze me.

First, the bible has nothing to do with duty to God, reverence and the BSA. This organization includes Buddhism, Hinduism and Zoroastrianism. So if we are going to have a discussion about these topics and try to keep it relevant to BSA, stop bringing your own version of Christian morality into it.

Second, this has nothing to do with sexual behavior- heterosexual, homosexual or other. That is clearly forbidden in any form. I daresay there are many more heterosexual scouters committing adultery in this organization than any homosexuals misbehaving.

Finally, Sexual behavior can be suppressed completely and should be. The kid that discovers masturbation will be in just as much trouble if he acts on it on a scouting event as any of the other proposed problems in this thread. It's also much more likely to be the "morally straight" problem that you would have to deal with.

It was even mentioned in one of the handbooks in the distant past.

Scouts are assumed trustworthy until they lose your trust as in this case. Then, it is their responsibility to earn it back. I think we all start off with giving the guys the benefit of the doubt.

On a camporee several years ago, the staff needed a representative from the troop to be a member of the Gateway judging committee. Our troop "misfit" wanted to be the rep and I said it would be ok if he wore his full uniform (as our representative) when they went around the camp. I thought the responsibility would be good for him since he was frequently getting in trouble with behavioral issues. He didn't have his belt on and when asked why, he said he spilled ketchup on it (which was quite in character for him). The next day, when packing up, I saw his belt- clean as a whistle, with his gear. When confronted, it was clear he had lied. Although a minor event, it gave me the opportunity to discuss trustworthiness with him and that from now on I could only assume he was lying to me, until he secured my trust again. I don't think I ever fully trusted him after that.

Try it with 4 loops first. Then move up to 5.

Some of these leaders will never get it. In my son's Troop, the leaders MUST consider outside activities demonstrating leadership ability for an eagle palm because the Council Advancement Committee has instructed them that they now HAVE TO. The whole event could have been handled differently- for the benefit of the Scout instead of the egos of the SM, CC and COR. So... this troop has had to change the way it is doing things. It does not affect my son anymore because he is no longer involved there. (He could have gotten all of his palms in the Venture Crew in the first place). He earned them in the Troop and was awarded them there because he went through the process.

It is the Scout's "right" to appeal if he feels he has been denied recognition or advancement when deserved. That's why the system is in place.