boleta

FOG,

When I first started viewing the Forum this year, I was amused by the recurring conflict between you and Bob White. I must admit that I disagreed with many of BW's views initially. But, after reviewing the "party line" that he gave, I found that I usually could not continue my disagreement. His explanations of his interpretation of BSA policy seemed to be much more right than wrong at the end of the discussion.

Your advice, on the otherhand, seems to simply involve cynicism and sarcasm. You are apparently a very experienced Scouter. Please give us the benefit of your advice and try to withhold the cynisism.

I think the Forum will greatly miss the expertise of Bob White, even if you disagree with it.

(This message has been edited by boleta)

I am a new Venturing Advisor. I just took the Leadership Specific Training. The Crew President is doing a great job and I view my role as strictly advisor. The guys are 15 to 18 and run the show. They do what they want to do, when they want to do it. They are not interested in advancement, but if they do things, I keep track of it and will tell them if they need to do anything additionally to get their Bronze Award or Ranger.

I received a PM from OldFart:

"You are an *** Hole. I have been on this earth for 64 years and I have never tried to publicly humiliate someone. You want to squelch someone? Go ahead. But do not brag about it."

Is he Jason? Is he the Dude? Is he 27 or 64?I did correct him and suggested he forgot arrogant, too.

ps He has been suspended.

Keep score?

When I got mad and hit my child

"for his own good," I reconciled,

And then, I realized my plight...

Today I taught my child to fight.

When interrupted by the phone,

I said, "Tell them I'm not at home."

And then I thought, and had to sigh...

Today, I taught my child to lie.

I told the tax man what I made,

Forgetting cash that I was paid;

And then I blushed at this sad feat...

Today I taught my child to cheat.

I smugly copied a cassette,

To keep me free of one more debt.

But now the bills of shame must peal...

Today I taught my child to steal.

Today I cursed another race.

Oh God, protect what I debase,

For now, I fear it is too late.

Today, I taught my child to hate.

By my example, children learn

That I must lead in life's sojourn

In such a way that they are led

By what is done, not what is said.

Today, I gave my child his due

By praises of him instead of rue.

And now I have begun my guide:

Today, I gave my child his pride.

I now have reconciled and paid

To IRS on all I made.

And now I know that this dear youth

Today has learned from me, of truth.

The alms I give are not for show,

And yet, this child must surely know

That charity is worth the price;

Today, he saw my sacrifice.

I clasp within a warm embrace

My neighbor of another race

The great commandment from above.

Today, I taught my child to love.

Someday, my child must face alone

This world of fearsome undertone,

But I have blazed a sure pathway:

Today, I taught my child ... to pray.

Henry Matthew Ward

The tortoise lives twist plated decks

 which practically conceals its sex.

I think it clever of the turtle

in such a fix to be so fertile.

Ogden Nash

I was going to credit you at the beginning of my post Packsaddle, but thought that the point I made was very slightly different. United Way gives a constant amount regardless of the directed donations. Again, I don't know for sure if this is true.

Still, you deserve the 10,000 points awarded for being first with you thought. So there.

I always thought Jason OK was multiple people posting under one name- too many different styles.

I really enjoyed OldFart's recent post in

Topic: RE: What you became now your grown up? (by the way, it is "you're")

Maybe Scouter-Terry will take care of this problem as well. In the meantime, I will ignore all posts from this user.

This person does not get it. He will never get it. He does not understand the Scout Oath or Law as was clear by his posts. He is a liar and is not even true to his own faith. IGNORE HIM.

I also used to give to BSA through United Way, until I learned that UW usually has a level of donation to BSA- say $250,000. UW will give this regardless of targeted donations. If directed donations to BSA total 150,000, UW still gives only 250,000.

So donate directly to BSA and hope UW still gives the 250,000. In the end, BSA gets more.

I may be wrong about this, but it is the explanation that a United Way official gave to me.(This message has been edited by boleta)

Many, but not all of the Issues and Politics threads have been closed. Perhaps the new feature does work as the closed threads seemed to have a significant number of posts by the recent member whom many of us had decided to ignore.

I found many of these discussions interesting and provocotive. But the outrageous comments of one member forced me to ignore him and then the threads.

Why worry about the loss of Bob White (5005 posts) and Eamonn (1730 posts) when we now have the expert advice of Jason OK who instructs concerned parents to pray to Christ for answers. These Senior Forum Members who frequently disagreed but gave us insight with their discussions will hardly be missed. (SARCASM dripping).

Gentlemen, gentlemen.... (and ladies), There is no reason for such discord. I must confess to selecting creamy which you all must assuredly agree is most readily available. But really!! I am sure in the quiet of the night, each of you has on occasion, stealthily taken the chunky and consumed it without regard to your neighbor's opinion.(This message has been edited by boleta)

Sounds very familiar.

I would count each hike as a separate activity.

Which makes me wonder, when do the managers step in? Part of the true religion thread was amazingily hateful.

Why are you picking on BSA. I assume that historically, public schools chartered Scout units. BSA took its charters where it could and still does. As each Public School system confronts this issue, they will make their choices, right or wrong.

I was offended at a Public School Sports Banquet where the athletic director started the meeting with a prayer. A Christian prayer. Absolutely against all separation of church and state rules for a public school (as dictated by the Supreme Court). Did I make a fuss? No. Is separation of church and state important? Yes. Is it worth it to outrage the entire assembly when the people that conduct these prayers need them but I don't? NO.

The Board Room of our City Hospital had an American Flag and a Christian Flag in it. The President of the Medical Staff was Jewish and the Chairman of the Department of Surgery was Muslim. No one but I noticed the Christian Flag in the corner of the room (donated by a local YMCA and present for many years). It was removed when I suggested it was inappropriate at a City Hospital to have a sectarian flag.

I can still do my duty to God, belong to BSA, respect the beliefs of the True Believers and you, and still ask for separation of church and state. It is in my and your best interest that the government stay out of ALL of our religious lives.

I look forward to seeing how the ESA (Ethical Students of America unite!) turns out. Good luck with your new organization. I will support your right to Charter at a public school as I am sure you will be non-descriminatory.

Merlyn,

You have 600 posts on this forum, but you are a one trick pony. I am willing to admit that your points are valid in principle. As the school systems come to their senses and the Scouts find other places to be chartered, society will have changed for the "better". Or just changed. Scouters will be outraged as these changes occur. But the strengths of BSA still will far outweigh any weaknesses you may perceive.

Or maybe you would like to see this quaint organization pass into oblivion simply because you don't respect its right to set its own rules. Millions of young men have benefitted from the Boy Scouts of America.

Why don't you start the Ethical Students of America (atheists included) and see if you can do as well.

I can respect your beliefs and not accept them. I think we have reviewed this concept several times already in this thread.

Why would you want to join the Spanish Club if you are taking French? On second thought, you might join the Bible Study Club just so you can argue with everbody.

Why do you care if kids that want to be members of BSA meet at a school? Maybe you will get the school to revoke the charter. Who does that help? It certainly hurts the kids that want to be Scouts. Why would an atheist want to be a member of an organization that requires an OATH to do duty to God? Why would you want to encourage an 8 year old to live a lie? (worst of all- they might stop being atheists and start believing in God... horrors!)

I am new to the forum but I keep hearing the same argument from you. Now, let's get back to Scouting issues.

Merlyn,

And you may get your way. Public Schools may stop allowing Scouts to meet there even as they allow the Bible Study Club. So what? So the BSA will get charters from Ruritan Clubs, Churches, Citizen Groups and other non-governmental groups.

BSA requires an Oath to do your duty to God. BSA says any personal interpretation of this is OK. It does not matter if you don't respect the beliefs of religious people (as you have belittled them here), BSA requires us to respect them. And I believe, as NJCubScouter has suggested, it requires us to respect atheists as well- to be Friendly regardless of the beliefs and customs of others.

Wager with you on a Scouting issue, Bob? NO WAY. But the basis for Scouting is Baden-Powell's Handbook for Boys which added the 10th point- Clean, in 1911 (?)- NOT reverence. A Scout is Reverent may be in some programs, But as far as I know, it is still not a part of the Handbook for Boys.

Yes, Duty to God is integral to the Oath. Which is why adding Reverent was redundant. It does, however, add the requirement of respect for the beliefs of others!!! That sure clarified things. Many of the posters here don't seem to understand this part of it.

And finally, your point earlier in this thread is that BSA does not and will not EVER choose a TRUE religion as the basis for this Oath. Thus, allowing for any personal expression for duty to God, being inclusive with the exception of atheism- sorry again, Merlyn

Thank you NJCS, you have made the critical point that brings us back to Hunt's original question.

IF you believe there is ONLY one True Religion,

THEN there doesn't seem to be a difference between the fringe religion and no religion.

BUT, BSA makes no distinction! BSA requires a belief in God. Sorry Merlyn. I respect you and your belief, but you still can't raise your hand and do duty to God. Scouting is not for you. That is why atheism is inconsistent with being a Scout or Scouter.

Insight can be achieved by reading Baden-Powell's original handbook and the reasons he stresses for duty to God. Remember, A Scout is Reverent was added in 1911 by BSA and is not part of the Scout Law in the rest of the world.

I don't want to "steal" the unit leaders from their units. I want them to attend if they want to give us ideas of what they want the District to do. But I do need the CORs to attend. I would like unit Committee members who are interested, to move up to District- come and see what is happening on the District level so they can help out as well.

Sears sold the Boy Scout and Cub uniforms before Hecht Co. took it over. They used Pneumatic (vacuum) tubes as a messenger system. I remember it too.

The pack meetings were chaos. I remember a spaghetti dinner in 1961. But the den meetings were fun! Mom was the den mother.

I strongly recommend that your Troop Committee take the training together. It will bind you together into a cohesive group. For your unit to become boy run, as requested in another thread, you need to follow Bob White's advice and then get the Committee Chair to understand that the planning is done by the boys and approved by the committee.

Last resort- get a new Committee Chair.