WAKWIB

I think it's really great that you are taking up the challenge to pass the swim test. Your experience will really help you to be a coach and cheerleader to the Scouts who will need a boost to complete their own test.

This post brought back some memories of poking around the Scout stuff at J.C.Penney's when I was a little fellow. When I finally joined a Troop, it was there that I or my Mom purchased everything I needed to participate. They had it all. I didn't set foot in a Council "Scout Shop" until many years later as an adult. We still have one locally owned clothing store out in the suburbs of our Metro area that carries uniforms, books and many other items. They are pretty proud about the fact that they have a long history as a Scout stuff distributor. I have no clue as to the nature of their arrangement with BSA to carry the brand, but it works and it's a go-to place for many Scout families in the area.

Sounds like you are acquainted with Mic-O-Say. I've been very involved with that for over 40 years. Suffice it to say, we have some work to do in the years ahead...

Currently in our Lodge, the 4 principles are fully attired including a ribbon shirt. We have other Arrowmen at ceremony that tend fires, beat the drum, escort inductees, etc. They are in some type of regalia. I've seen some shirtless, but that would be an easy fix. All inductees, for Ordeal and Brotherhood, appear in Class A for ceremony. So...really, not a big deal. Just make sure the relatively few guys serving a ceremonial role are not topless, and all is well.

I'm coming into this party really, really late, but since @@John-in-KC tagged me, I figure I would chime in. Not much too say....it is what it is. National drops a load and we deal with it. I am a fairly optimistic guy and think that it will work out. Forty years down the road, Scouting will still be around doing what it's doing today, pretty much like it was doing forty years ago . I understand all the concerns and complaints. Honestly, I could rant about it louder and longer than anyone, but at the end of the day it would be sound and fury, signifying nothing. BSA is a business. It will always make decisions to increase it's market share and improve it's bottom line. For me the key to enjoying Scouting and doing the best for the youth I serve, is to try to put aside the previous two sentences. I consciously make an effort to put that whole "BSA is a business" thing into the same brain compartment that I would put thoughts of a root canal, or a case of hemorrhoids, because if I dwell on it, it just makes me pissed-off. I find that my better nature in relation to the program comes out when I take interest in what the kids are doing and try to look at it through their eyes. They are experiencing so many of the things that I loved about Scouts when I was their age. The cold and snowy campouts, the great times at summer camp, the pride of a Court of Honor. etc, etc, etc... It has been obvious for many years that girls have been underserved by other organizations tailored to them. I've heard it a thousand times. So have most of you folks. While it raises a lot of questions and concerns, including girls into our adventure program is a logical step. While I'm not nearly at the place where I'm doing enthusiastic back flips about this change in membership policy and programming, I'm willing to approach it in a kind and supportive way. In the end I hope to see young ladies truly getting into adventure and leadership development, positive adult mentoring, and discovering the right path of duty to God, Country, and Others.

Hi Eamonn! I've wondered what you have been up to. I'm pretty much on the same point on my Scouting path as you. Keeping my nose in it, but not nearly as involved as I was in the 2000-2010 time frame. I have a number of lifetime friends that are very active and I get pulled into a few service opportunities now and then and it's always a great time. Congrats on the new grandson!! It currently appears that I'm not very close to arriving at that milestone yet, but I'm looking forward to that same sense of joy that is very apparent in your post. God Bless you and your growing family!!

LDS has officially stated on several occasions during the last few years that it is continuing to seek and evaluate programs that meet the needs of their youth. I think the main reason they continue to be on board with the BSA Troop and Pack programs is the name-brand recognition and the access it provides to events and properties. So, although they may surprise me, I think LDS will stick with the brands that offer those benefits. We all know that "Eagle" has become a brand unto itself. I'm sure many in the LDS community still see it as an important trophy and bullet-point on a resume. If, one day, that church feels the BSA brands are no longer important or meaningful or heavily supported by the volunteers in their community, they will either adopt the Trail Life program or cook up one of their own.

That thing I highlighted in red seems like crazy-talk but stranger things have happened, I suppose.

I think they want to make this change slow and agonizing . A fully coed Scouting program has been cussed and discussed amongst Scouters for at least the 45 years I have been connected with the program, so why rush it now, right? For some reason, National seems much more hesitant to flip on this like they did on other membership issues. Also, I kind of detect more resistance to it in my contacts with other Scouters than I ever did with the more recent changes. Just my observation. So, we wait....

I think being Responsible is a natural outcome of following all 12 points of the Scout Law. Most folks that I would consider responsible people are those that demonstrate most of those 12 characteristics most of the time. In the context of Scouting, I think our emphasis on Obedient is simply aimed at encouraging the youth to follow directions from those in formal authority over you. To be a good leader, one must first be a good follower.

I guess part of this was a rapid-response to a lawsuit recently filed. Maybe it will be easier to do damage control with charter relationships than deal with the hot mess of publicity the suit would cause. http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Cub-Scouts-Sued-Transgender-Boy-New-Jersey-Secaucus--412068393.html

Was there really any direct input at all from charter organizations leading up to this? I'm pretty sure there was little. Sure, this had to be confronted sooner or later. However this seems like a decision made solely at the professional level, with not even a pretense of building a consensus.

I can't speak from any personal experiences, and I've never heard of members of our troop attending the council STEM events that have been going on the last few years. I personally don't think it's that great of a departure from the Scout program in general. STEM stuff has been a part of the Merit Badge progam forever. I don't think the intent is to somehow use it as a replacement for other activities we associate with Scouting. While not that detailed or informative, the link I'm sharing does show the types of activities our council provides for several STEM camps that are held during the year. These are held at our council camping facilities. https://www.hoac-bsa.org/stem

@@SpEdScouter I think quazse's estimates above are about right. Judging by other posts, I'm thinking you are in the HOAC council and are hopefully in contact with the volunteers and professionals that can help with fundraising, donations and people-power. We have an entire District devoted to helping any and all urban and rural troops within the boundaries of the Council. http://www.hoac-bsa.org/frontier

It would really depend, I suppose, on where you are going and what you are doing when you get there, what type of gear you all plan on taking..etc. In most cases the hotel thing would be the last and obviously the most expensive option. I can recall only couple times when our troop went to the Cosmosphere in Hutchinson, KS that we did something besides camping in tents. One time we used some type of bunk-house at the State Fairgrounds, and another time we all sacked-out on the gym floor of a Salvation Army facility in town. It may take a bit of research and phone calls, but there are other options.

Plenty of opportunities at our camp for older ladies and gentlemen. Some work the entire summer, some for just a session or two. We have roughly 50 or so positions reservation wide for the "commissioner staff." They might work in a trading post, or provide additional adult supervision in one of many program areas. They typically do not teach much, that is left to the 15-18 year olds on the staff for the most part. The full-timers usually have a cabin to bunk in. The folks who come down for session work stay in their own tent village. Although I'm not retired, 11 years ago, I served a session as a commissioner for one of the outpost programs. The main attraction for that outpost was shooting black-powder rifles. I actually learned a bit, and it was one of the most fun times I've had in Scouting as an adult. And, as a bonus, the food the staff cooked for the supper-time outpost operation was far, far better than what was served in the dining hall.

@@MikeS. Nice work on the translation. I found it fascinating.

I wish I would have seen this topic a bit earlier, but I'm always the late one to the party.... SpEdScouter: If I recall correctly, you posted a similar topic a year or so ago. I offered then to engage in a more one-on-one conversation with you about it. The offer still stands. Actually, if you wish, email me at wakwib@hotmail.com. Since you are in the area, I wouldn't mind taking the time to converse over a cup of coffee or lunch. To be frank, you do seem to have some misconceptions of the Tribe and that has, in turn, fed into the misconceptions of several of our commentators. The offer of some Q & A via my email also extends to other members of the forum also. Just don't spam me too much..... We could do that here of course if we want to keep the thread rolling along. I have been a member of the Tribe for over 40 years and stay as active in Scouting and Mic-O-Say as I can (the degree has gone up and down over the years due to life), so I have a little bit of credibility. I do want to make a few remarks just off the top of my head. First, I'm proud to say that this summer the Tribe will induct it's 80,000th member since it's formation in the Kansas City Area Council (now Heart of America) in 1929. This summer, we also inducted the new Chief Scout Executive into Mic-O-Say, which has been a custom of ours for several decades. He is fully aware, as are other members of the National Staff, of our customs and traditions and the content and conduct of our ceremonies. Our ceremonies are rich and meaningful. Every boy who goes through the program will tell you it is fun and exciting. They will also speak of the challenges and hard work involved. Scouts come to our camp for 5-10 years to experience it. Thousands of guys, and gals, call our Reservation "home." That's an almost impossible thing to describe to someone outside of the organization. However, the main component of Mic-O-Say goes deeper than cool ceremonies, costumes, and the beads and claws. So, I will briefly share the "secret" of our not very secret society. Every youth and adult who enters our Tribe makes a contract with themselves to undertake specific tasks to give service in 4 specific areas of their lives. There is a format to this.The 4 entities are, or should be, very dear to the heart of the Scout. The Scouts who are joining the Tribe share these 4 resolutions with members of the Tribal Council at a special council ring. BTW--the view from that council ring is my profile pic). These resolutions are reviewed, and revised with the Tribal Council at other times during the next two years, if the Tribesman returns to camp. The adults who join Mic-O-Say witness this, and in turn, are also asked to make similar resolutions as well. The Tribe, regardless of all the hoopla of the Indian stuff, is really centered around our 4 Heart's Resolutions, individually and collectively. For many Tribesmen, those resolutions become the template for an evolving "life-plan" of dedication and service. For some spiritual or emotional reason, this dedication to our life-plan has formed among Tribesmen a strong bond of friendship and fellowship, and a love for Scouting and our Scout Reservation.

What a tragedy.... Praying for all involved.

During the summers of 1976-1981 I worked at the H. Roe Bartle Scout Reservation in Missouri. I learned a lot about hard work and long hours, particularly because 4 of those 6 years I worked on the Dining Hall Staff. My last year was pretty awesome in that I was the Assistant Lakefront Director. That required me to attend National Camping School, and the Aquatics course there was pretty intense. Being able to take canoes, motorboats, and sailboats out on the beautiful Truman Lake all that summer was well worth the time. It was a great time in my life and I made many, many friends who I still hang out with to this day. Most of us have stayed connected to Scouting in one way or another.

Thanks for sharing that, blw2. Brought back some good memories of trailblazing and fort building that I and my non-scout buddies did in the woods near our neighborhoods.

I hadn't heard of this film. It looks like it would be great!

http://www.uuworld.org/articles/renewed-relationship-boy-scouts-america?utm_source=f Copy of memorandum: http://www.uua.org/re/children/scouting/memorandum-understanding

Don't feel like the "bad guy" in all this. Raising this issue appears to be generating (hopefully) a response that will benefit the boys in your community by giving them a more genuine Scouting experience. That's a very good thing!!

I heard that LDS is sticking with BSA because they got an official exemption from having to do popcorn sales and FOS promotions. Just kidding....