theysawyoucomin'

"Ridicule is one of the favorite weapons of wickedness, and it is sometimes incomprehensible how good and brave boys will be influenced for evil by the jeers of associates who have no one quality that calls for respect, but who affect to laugh at the very traits which ought to be peculiarly the cause for pride." I think ol' Teddy Roosevelt may have posted that if he were a reader of this forum. Anybody that has humped a backpack with Scouts knows it's not for sissies. I think once boys learn where tradions of Scouting come from and see some of the methods put into action "espirit de corps" comes+ next.

I very much disagree with some of your ideas. Change Woodbadge Patrols? Working your ticket? Your critique of Woodbadge symbols and lingo is out of whack. The Wood badge song? Wood badge oozes tradition. Are you going to tell your course director you don't want to wear Boer war trophy beads from Dinizulu(sp?) A large percentage of Scouters don't even know what woodbadge is and if a couple of songs and using animals for symbols is wrong we'll then just don't take woodbadge. As for the course the whole thing was just revamped. I gained much. I agree with you about the declining numbers. Many times parents are to blame for not participating and helping the boy work through the program. Some parents don't honor the program for what it is. Some parents were so fouled up they could sent their son without a snack for after school meetings. They are the same parents that don't send their kid to soccer with a drink of water. I'm sorry but I don't think the uniform is geeky. It looks an awful lot like my summer service "c" uniform in the Marines. The knee socks OK, very British. but my son likes them.Maybe we could have gangsta shorts that are slung low and boxers that show above them. Maybe instead of merit badges we could all look like MR. T wanna bees. Maybe Our new oath could be a rap. Let is embrace a culture that glorifies death and violence not to mention degredation of my be--otches. Just because some of our youth is going down the loo doesn't mean the rest of us should follow. I don't have an answer to declining rolls except this: When BP came up with Scouting in 1907 young boys were working in factories 14 hours a day, others were running loose. No organized sports run by over indulgent parents. No fathers screaming a kids for striking out in LL baseball. Children were to be seen and not heard from in Edwardian England. Today we (including me) spend a tremendous amount of time making sure our kids are spoiled rotten. I agree we need some ideas to get good numbers agin but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. And don't even think of taking the crystal radio out of the Bear book. That radio is just as cool as it was in the first Cub book in 1930. The parts are getting hard to find but my boys were happy when they made theirs. I do like the ticket idea it generates discussion. Very good. Best of luck with your other goals.

The Adults in our Troop are have a goal to be a BLT. This weeekend we had a great camping trip to a 57 acre island in the middle of a large man made lake used for flood control. I'm dogged tired so please excuse any grammar problems. We streesed Patrol cooking this weekend. We don't have them shopping for themselves yet but the Adults dream about it. When the patrols cook by themselves how do they get cooking tools? Do you have it arranged by Patrol back at home where ever you store it? Does the QM allot it as needed back at home and then Patrols pack it themselves? Do you bring alot of gear to the field and they get it from you after you get to your destination? How many of you folks use patol boxes? How many of you cook using the Troop method like we do? In fact I had a Patrol Leader tell me yesterday that he hated when patrols cooked and worked only as patrols. I let him know 4H is a lovely organization(kidding) The Rocking chair patrol made a Polish Trainwreck. We call dutch oven meals with meat potatoes and carrot combined a "Trainwreck" because of the jumbled nature of what's in the pot. A Polish Trainwreck is (from the bottom up) potatoes,cabbage,sweet corn and Kielbasa. Man, It was good. Apple pie in a 9in aluminum pan cooked in another dutch oven.with spray whipped cream. Crust needs a little work but trust me none of the pie went to waste. Thank you in advance for you reply. I'm wondering what works for you Troop so we can sow the seeds for success and watch the boys do the rest.

Thank you CA. May your boys wear them out,being they have so many great times with them! And safe burning too!

Final note to this saga. We did not get a lean-to. We camped in tents and it rained. I was wondering where all that water from the lake came from. I thought it rained someplace else far far away and was carried there. we camped at the site of an old horse barn with an established fire ring. Had a great time. But get this. The Boy Scout aged MB counselor/instructor from Camp Wakpominee told the boys that family camping counted for nights required for this merit badge. You remember family camping: mommy waits on you,dad builds your fire, you get to bring your game boy!!!! That is roughing it. I don't know where the heck the camping with your family came it but that is a load of bull that has quickly been circulated. The boys may not remember another thing that was said except camping within the bosom of our family now counts towards camping required for this badge. TOBAL!!

So CA what stoves did you buy? I too own a 20 year young svea 123 optimus. It is the best stove made. You can get away from the ball of flame by using fire paste. EMS sells it. Sure fire lighting with the fire paste. The MSR wisperlite and pocket rocket also get high marks. Lately the one burner coleman's really are trash. Buy sterno instead. Or hold the pouch of food under you arm.

this is a great piece of equipment. 45 pump strokes to the quart. fast easy. Alot better than waiting for aquamira to work.

To bring this full circle we finished our trip to Pharaoh Lk./Mt. near Brant Lake, NY this weekend. Man, This old grunt's muscles ache. And my Red Sox are getting beat up. We had a great time, the highlight was seeing loons hunt in the water at about 25 yards. On Topic: the smallest Scouts did quite well. We did not get a lean to and by the number of cars at the trailhead we kind of knew it was going to be that wat. We had some rather large 4 kid tents from Eureka, the boys split them up into poles, fly and tent bearers. I swear the poles weigh more than the tent.Some kids with too much stuff. We talked about the scene with MRS. Potatohead stuffing the back of MR. with everything:don't forget the MONKEYS. As was said here don't let mommy pack. At one meeting we also spoke of spending $8 for two yards of light fleece from WALMART and using that to cover up while sleeping on an August night but some still decided to bring the sleeping bag. Oh well. Great trip nice lake, tough walk to the top but very few bugs. My son had a leech on him, he proudly proclaimed ,"I'm a host!" (good science teacher.) Good time was had by all.

Trev, I've tried the same thing with my black Lab. He won't fetch ducks right to my hand so I figure this year I'll move the duck blind 8 feet farther out into the inlet where we hunt.

No hurry Beav, You hear it alot from parents"Oh the camping one takes a lot". To me merit badges for some things mean "mastery". If I was a merit badge hound parent I would have made him pitch a tent at Conewago. He'll have more than enough next year. I am more happy(what poor English) that he will have made 9 overnights and had a good time. Keep the outing in Scouting. Most kids in Troop XX have 4 to 6 nights per year plus camp. Too little in my opinion. Not for the MB but for the lack of wood smoke in their lungs, picturesque sights burned into their brains, and shared memories.

Eamonn, TOBAL stands for There oughta be a law--it used to be a one frame cartoon a while ago and might still be going for all I know. I agree about Scouting being a journey and not a race. In fact I wish you were there when the ASM from our Troop discussed how to plunder summer camp and leave with as much booty(merit badges)as one can. Not one lad from our Troop signed up for COPE-which appears to me as an exciting way to spend a couple of hours. COPE looks to be something on the order of "extreme" with a lot of safety tucked in without being overt. Problem is COPE just gives a rush or great experience, COPE does not however give a merit badge so those in the race to Eagle could care less. In our Troop summer camp seems to be when we fit Scouting in. The boys focus on Scouting for 7 days and six nights yet when a short hike or a mornings canoe paddle comes up everybody is too busy. Too busy with sports or what ever. My son will have experienced 23 nights from February '06 to plans in October of '06 with all levels of "camping" or Scout "overnights" from a remote shack in the Adirondacks at 3 degrees, to camporees, to a Fairgrounds display about Scouting, to "Rothrocks" at Camp Conewago near Gettysburg and including an Adirondack Leanto. My hope is that he makes time for that every year. I could care less when he gets the camping merit badge. I guess my statement was more along the lines of what is the definition of camping. The Camporee we attended was on National Park property and we camped on a mowed lawn about 100yds from a state road. boy does not choose site. Boy helps pitch tent. Boy uses porto potty.Boy gets two nights credit towards MB. If boy or Troop forgets something he could be standing in a 7-11(or whatever cornerstore you have in your part of our great country) in about five minutes. In August, Boy will hike 3 or 4 miles to Adirondack Lean to. Well beyond any link to the world. If something is forgotten it does not exist. Boy will go off and dig cathole when needed. Boy will use water filter to get water. Boy may hear loons and will have to hang a bear bag. According to some(who are well within the letter of the requirement, Beav I agree with you.) this will not qualify as two nights toward MB. If I was the MB counselor (which I am not) I would look at the situation and give any boy credit for the lean to trip because of the nature of the trip, how boy got there, and my personal idea of how camping is defined. We will bring tents as sometimes the leanto's are occupied, but I would still consider this camping if the Leanto is used. Heck, the lean to was built before LNT was a concept but is a forunner of LNT in that it concentrates the impact and stops 50 fire rings around the lake. Kind of like using a durable surface instead of blazing a new trail. Beav the lean to's are not a requirement. This is not a flame discussion or rant more on the order of a dog cocking his head because he just thinks it's odd. I wish we were all sitting around face to face,eating peanuts with a couple if sodas, because I really like a lot of the discussions on this forum. In summation I agree with all of you except Beav. I respect Beav's point of view because he is well within the reg. I just wish the reg contained someting like "an existing wooden three sided wooden structure such as a leanto may qualify as long as it is at least one mile from the vehicle you used to get there" And yes I realize we can't all have it our way, this is the BSA, not uz2bnowl's camping club. Just making conversation and reading others opinions. Thank you all for the fellowship.

From the manual: Camp a total of at least 20 days and nights. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that is already pitched, you need not pitch your own tent. BSA Req'ments 2006 Does this mean that if a patrol of Scouts hikes four miles to an Adirondack lean-to and camps the weekend that this does not count? More outlandishly speaking, if a Troop hikes a 30 mile leg of the Northville Placid Trail and uses lean tos this doesn't count either? I know all decisions are up to the MB Counselor, but why would BSA not allow this to count. Is going to a Camporee and picking the tent out of the Troop trailer walking twenty feet and pitching the tent anymore "camping " than what I have described? What say you?

the extent to which young boys love playing with marbles is amazing. They just can't get enough.

Old post here, Nobody mentioned Wakpominee in Fort Ann

For those of you familiar with the Adirondacks the trip in mind is to Pharaoh Lake. Depending on whose numbers you use the trail head is about 3.5 miles from the very southern trip of the lake. Another .4 to 1 to a lean to. Another 2.2 to some of the best views in the Southern Adirondacks off Pharaoh Mtn. We'll bring tents in case all the lean tos are filled but I hope they are not. Some of the boys ran 3 miles in a 5k this spring which I know is not the same as humping a pack. Eamonn -Not looking to repeat the Bataan Death March here. A church group went along this same trail, some fourth grade girls made the trip. Therefore some Scouts should be able to make it without too much gnashing of teeth. Friday night hump in to camp. Saturday walk up Pharaoh MT 2150 something feet (some people on this thread live that high up.)Fish, canoe around, Swim(in designated areas) and flip over rocks to see what's underneath. Boy stuff. Sunday hike out after lunch. Brent we have considered the shoe box campout but have not got that off the ground. This will be the first backpacking in over a generation of Scouts. At least nobody talks about any backpacking. Canoe trips but no backpacking. I agree about Mommy packing the gear. The Scout doesn't know whether he has it or not and if he has it he doesn't know where it is. We will probably have a gear inspection and teach the Scouts how to lighten the load. No sleeping bags. maybe a couple yards of fleece from Walmart for a blanket. No sponge bob pillow case--It is better to be so tired that you fall asleep with your head on top of a bag with your clothes in it. No room for hyper behavior when you walked up 2 miles and picked your way back down, just well deserved sleep. 540- the whiner only qualified as a whiner when he began to throw his muscles around in the barracks and the E-club after a few beers but then could NOT do his fair share when it came to carrying the mortar tube or the base plate. He could bench 345. Like I said the amount of fight in the dog... I agree with the head lamp. We will make a bulk purchase at Harbour Freight. The Three cell MAG light is too heavy. Soda will be out. But then again I'd love to see it jettisoned during one of the rest stops. I joke with my son about innovative ways to lighten the load: "Marines used throw away the jokers from a deck of cards." A common prank was to sneak a big rock into somebody's ALICE pack and watch their face to see the amazement as to why a rock was in there. Today that would be hazing. There is nothing like a little adversity to forge a common bond between those who bear the adversity together. A nice little stretch of the legs walking with a canoe on a cart. Troop---Walking in sand is tough but it builds great muscles. MaScout- a Vietnam vet with a very humble southern upbringing told me," the difference between what you'll eat and what you won't eat is about 24 hours." A head net will be mandatory!!!! Give Blood, 100 billion mosquitoes need to eat too!!!! Brent I have the Field book, it's time to dust it off. Another quote or two for you: "In nature there are neither rewards nor punishments - there are consequences." R. G. Ingersoll There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude and peace. The way of a canoe is the way of the wilderness and of a freedom almost forgotten. It is an antidote to insecurity, the open door to waterways of ages past and a way of life with profound and abiding satisfaction. When we are part of a canoe, we are part of all that canoes have ever known. Siguard Olson

In another life I had a tremendous amount of time "waltzing matilda" but don't have much experience with how much weight an 11, 12, 13 wear old scout can carry. I know that kids come in all shapes and sizes and that will be a factor. The size of the fight in the dog matters a lot too. One of the biggest muscle-bound Marines I know was also the biggest whiner when it came to carrying a pack and other heavy implements of war. Do you guys run a "shakedown" say of half the distance before hand? Thank you in advance for any sugestions. I know the orthopedic guys say 15% so please don't quote that. I need first hand knowledge please. And I have to believe a lot of that is for seven year olds and their bookbags. Alot of these kids are beginning to grow. I can't believe the Iroquois and the Cree worried too much about these things and they had young men bearing loads all the time. When Henry Hudson had his first encounter with the Mahican he did not write that they were all deformed.

Fred, Thank you for passing on this info. The Trail passes thru some great country. The geology of Thatcher Park alone has been a great boon to science since it was first explored and mapped. For amatures like me that geologic marvel provides a "wicked great view" and was preserved in the 20's and 30's when conquest was the mindset. Anybody that lives within an hour of Alabny should make it a point to take in the views and teach the lads about the Native folks that lived there. The cliffs even have a Tory cave where Tories hid out as raving bands of lunatic rebels searched for their heads. Our Cub Pack rents a picnic spot there every year.

At 43 I'm "The Oldest man in the World" according to my daughter. Some of that stuff in the USA Today is just plain old bad parenting. Some of it I am guilty of. Take the @$$%&&*&%^*(, #$%#^&**(^# game boy away for a day!!!!! Take it away for the week and you'll be amazed at what kids find to do. Plan family game nights. Get a board game and gather around the kitchen table and roll the dice!! As far as outside stuff: that is why our Scouting programs must be robust. Sure, include kids with wheel chairs but the kids that can walk can and should be encouraged to do so. We just had a Scout trip that included a walk up Tongue Mountain. Only one kid in the Troop went. Pitiful. My wife went to a teachers Conference about fitness and the speaker began by saying. "Kids no longer have scabs..." I agree. How many kids have ever played a baseball game where an overbearing parent was not in attendance. Look at the boys in your Troop. How much upper body stength do they have? What is the average number of pull ups each scout can do? The Empire is in Trouble. My son is 11 and he has never used a rope swing to go swimming. But he surely knows how to get to the fifth level in his favorite video game and get the magic key so he can kill the motleys and rescue the Queen of planet Bubniak. We need Scouting more than ever.

I too was a blue epaulet wearer during my quest for the taupe necker.(Summer between bear and WEEB I) As a WEEB II leader my cubmaster went to Wood Badge. To have Two WB's in a pack committee is a great thing. Our committee is composed of DL's and cubmaster and a committee chair with nobody else attending. How great it is to sit in a meeting and know that there are two people that not only "get it" but they have some schooling in how to get "it" done. Not just meeting monthly goals and providing a good program, but people with a larger network and the ability to get things done. Two people who believe nearly everything is possible. I believe WB'ers are a tremendous benefit to the larger picture. Meet the goals of the month but also have long term plans on how to overcome the challenges that every pack faces. Recruitment,depth, parent involvement etc. Heck you've got ten major goals completed for your unit if you have two wood badgers in the the pack. Every pack would be miles ahead by having two Wood Badgers. Newbie, go now and recruit a buddy to go the following year. The crux of the original post was about arrogance. Tell the Scoutmaster never to mistake arrogance for enthusiasm. Newbie, go to Wood Badge and prove to your friend that at least one person who took the training isn't arrogant. To bad eveybody on this forum didn't live near to each other. It would be one vote for arrogance and many votes against. Anytime we get this many posts on a positive topic it's a great thing! It speaks about how passionate people are. emb021 I thought your post was very very true. right on the mark! SCOUTNUT- you have probably accomplished two or three "tickets" in your time as a leader. Why not go to the course and refine your efforts? It would give you a different view and recharge your batteries.You would be an asset to any WB patrol. Everybody learns something at WB. Eammon you're right about the idiot at WB. Here we say, "A pig in a tuxedo is still a pig" (no offense meant to the pig community)

If the naysayers ran the country we'd all still be living on the main drag in Plymouth, Mass. I profited greatly from the course. I wear my beads everytime I put my shirt on. Necker and woggle only for more formal occasions. I have only heard the term "wuss badge" on this forum. Everyone else (including my old SM who took the course at Schiff with Hillcourt present) has been very happy for me in completing the experience. They only offer one course. You couldn't take the old course if you wanted to. Chesty Puller said "Old Corps-New Corps, I don't care as long as it's the Marine Corps" Do the following and you'll be better for it. 1 sign up and take the course 2 use the knowledge to make your little part of the movement a better place thru your goals. 3 Everytime you put on the beads know that much is expected--after all you're a wood badger. 4 Encourage others to attend the course by positive inspiration/motivation Or You could sit home because the SM says you'll come out worse than if you never went. Go, if I'm wrong you'll be out $200 and two weekends. If we're all correct, think of the boys that will become better men because you had an impact on their lives. Thank you for serving my country.

For the smoothest path,find a den where he already has a friend in it. That present Scout will guide the way for the 4th grade nephew. If he has "problems with kids his own age" a buddy can make all the difference.

john is right about fluids. Our camp issues each Scout a plastic mug and potable water is everywhere. Scouts must always have their mug, their den hat and a buddy. Remember a rope or cord to set up a whittling area. Make sure kids wear sunscreen. Especially the blond haired ones. If you have a pie iron bring bread and pie filling. If we keep going with this the list gets longer and longer. Instruct parents to label everything that they would like their child to come home with.

I have been to Camp Boyhaven(Twin Rivers Council, NY) for three sessions. Depending on how old your boys are, your responsibilities will vary at Camp. My experience is that you need to insure your boys get to the appointed place on time. Boy Scout and girl venturers run the classes and activities at our camp and other than getting them to the right building on time the instructors do the rest. You'll be responsible for their comfort, cleanliness and general appearance of your site. For swim time they will have lifeguards so that will be handled. Get them to bed on time, make them drink water and assure they have a buddy at all times, insure they get to morning and evening colors on time. And a ton of other things. You really sure you want to go? Really you'll have a great time!!!! I did and I wish that I had a second Tiger Scout so I could do it all over! I'm going to week long Boy Scout Camp this year, I'll let you know how that goes.

I never thought of the parent rule being a loophole, more of a youth protection issue. I figured if a parent was there the scout would be looked after much more than if there was only two leaders. Having a parent for a camping trip as a youngster is near enough like having a valet to wait on you hand and foot, to facilitate your next want or desire. Which we all know for an 8 year old is every 2 1/2 minutes. I don't see how one to one can be construed as a loophole. JMHO

FScouter, I would politely argue that family camping is allowed by a cub den. Also, that family camping is defined in the BALOO course book as camping that involves two or more members of the same family on a camping trip. Two being son and Dad, or our council exec has allowed an uncle(a real uncle, mother's brother) with written permission from the Mom Do you have something that is contrary to that? Please let me know because our pack does this routinely and also does pack camping once a year.