theysawyoucomin'

Scott we have a shooting sports person in our council. I don't know what he does so I do not wish to comment on that. What I do know is that in the past five years that I have been back in Scouting our Council has not held an NRA Cert. Course for any shooting discipline. (At least not one that was advertised for wide distribution.) I understand there being a national "standard" for training. Before the NRA became the whippin' boy for all crime committed with guns they pioneered safety programs. I have NRA magazine issues from the 1950's where they rejoice in firearms accidents being on the decline. I am a former Marine, who was a pistol coach, an infantry platoon sergeant and acting platoon commander. I am a second award pistol expert and an 8th award Rifle expert. I have run the range for my NYSPRA sporterifle team on not less than 40 weekly shoots. I have participated in about 12 smallbore silhouette matches(I love it but I stink at it.) I understand that all that does not make a difference. It's the Cert that counts. They don't know if I was a typist in the Marines or not. And all that's OK. I took the course and did not moan in the least. I have a problem with the fact that in my case they could possibly be moving the goal post farther away whilst my kick is in the air. (footbal metaphor). Our council just had a major revision of the MB counselor list because I think they realized that they had some folks on the list that were not Certified. Maybe they were NYS Encon Hunters Safety instructors. Which doesn't cut it. Our council has the rifle MB at two summer camps that I know of. I was looking to help out the other 51 weeks in a Scouts calendar. I would love to go to the National Camp School. It was not until this year that I realized it could be taken like I took WB, in two 3 day weekends. I already take a week with the boys at camp I cannot take another week for National Camp School. I do have a question about National Camp School for anybody that has been. For the NRA cert it is 20 hours, the next certs would be 14 hours since the first discipline you learn "train the trainer". So that's 20 for rifle, 14 for MZ and 14 for scatterguns. That is 48 hours, when do they find time for archery and the BSA part of shooting sport director in the 6 days? As far a axe throwing a well respected Iroquois historian once said, "That axe throwing is all Hollywood, no Mohawk warrior in his right mind would throw a valuable tool/weapon like an axe and only get one use out of it. Held in the hand it could continuously be used in close combat" Scotteng thank you for helping the boys grow by being a range official.

Hear , hear

Recently I found an NRA Training Counselor, scheduled a place, found a range and helped 14 Scouters get Rifle instructor Certified. All in the hope of following the G2SS and having a fam fire with the Troop and maybe becoming a merit badge couselor. The Class is 20 hours and was given to us at a bargain rate of $150. All of this was done wthout any help from the BSA, except my DE(whom I respect very much) circulating the word. Volunteers spent $2100 of hard earned cash to aid the Merit Badge program in our district. Let's not talk about the two full days of instruction. Today I hear a rumor that the BSA is going to add the Range Safety Officer(RSO) class to the requirement. Hey IRVING, TEXAS, THE CERTIFIED RIFLE INSTRUCTOR COURSE IS SENIOR IN HEIRACHY TO THE RSO COURSE!!!! This is another $75 and another day added to the requirement. Just how much money to you people in Irving think I have to spend on Scouting! Does anybody know how many accidents we had nationally under the BSA umbrella? What would warrant this change? Newsflash! You have to run a range in front of the training counselor to pass the practical portion of the CRI course. He evaluates you. I'm am all for following the rules but when you keep the carrot ahead of the little burro he gets a little frustrated. I spent money and time following the rules, this is enough to make you want to say forget it! Of course maybe that's just what they want. Signed, Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, and very angry if this is true.

Webelos love dump cake Do a google search on: Maple apple dumplings hague Make that in a dutch oven Have an older Scout do the Charcoal he can keep the boys from burning themselves

As a Weeb leader I would do most of the items for an activity pin at the meeting. The I'd send them home with a little independent stuff to do. Some boys come from families with problems. One problem is no matter the socio-economic group some families don't give a carp about their kids. so I'd always try to help those kids but make the boys do some on their own. You get to see what their made of that way. Remember Webelos is a traNSITION TO bOY sCOUTS WHICH IS EVEN MORE INDEPENDENT(OOOOPs caps lock). For second year Weebs it is really time to take the pacifier away. You aren't helping by making it easy for them. Encourage Beg Cajole Once the kids see their peers get awards that they had the same opportunity to get sudden stuff starts getting done. All boys want the bling bling make them earn it. Cut the apron strings. 10 year old American boys used to milk cows, split wood, haul coal, even work in factories and get their fingers chopped off, run gun powder from deck to deck etc. It's time to accept SOME responsibility. We aren't being mean, we are building them.

For some reason I cannot copy and paste here. Do a google search on "scientific method cub Scouts" the method consists of something like Question or problem(Given a twig of white Pine, ivy,or willow---will plants form their own roots when soaked in water?) Hypothesis(willow , no -----pine , yes----ivy, yes) Method: get a clean peanut butter jar and fill half full of water. Using the three twigs that you den leader, Mrs. Rumpplestilskin gave you observe and record your findings for a month. Cubs make one observation each saturday morning for 4 weeks and record what they see. At the end of four weeks they see that Pine-no ivy yes willow yes Holy smokes Johnny you were wrong about your guess concerning the willow. That's OK Johnny so many scientic discoveries are made when the scientist finds out that his preconceived ideas are wrong. The boys then write up a conclusion. Please investigate on the web' 'cause I'm sure I left something out. I did this plant experiment with my boys. I saw On one site it listed somthing about electric motors as part of an expirement search scitoys.com or scitoys. There is the greatest little homemade motoer on there. Pay particular attention to the part about scraping the shellac insulation off the wire. It is a joy to see them build this. Good luck.

Twin Rivers council broke it's own record today with over 350 attendees at a one day pow wow at Siena College. Tiger leaders to venture leaders attended. Thank you to the college for allowing us to use the class room space and supporting this great event. Thanx to Joe S. who is the keystone to this event every year.

A case of environmentalism gone amok. If a land owner wanted a tree felled because it should be culled due to wierd growth, overcrowding,partial death, what ever... Why would it be a violation of any Scout principle? I'll bet the insurance man is the one who put and end to the felling part. Leave no trace is for camping. And if we're all going to carry leave no trace into our living rooms then we are in for a very rough ride. I have to go lower my thermostat to OFF. Calling a contractor to level my house and I'll restore the 2 acres of farm field that I raped and decimated 14 years ago. After that I'll go supervise the demolition of the Council office. On to the LNT HQ to tear up their parking lot and shut down their furnance. Leave no trace should never be carried WAY TOO FAR.

The minute the "FREE" (the "F" word is not allowed to be used in my household, nothing is "Free") advancement insignia came into the discussion people brought the scales to mind and put $52 on one side and one or two bits of cloth on the other and saw what weighed more. If one gives to fair share it's because they are cimmitted to Scouting and think that there child or the community at large is getting a benefit from Scouting, not because of a few bits of cloth. Tami did you take Scoutleader/Weeb ldr outdoors at Wakpominee?

So where did you "get beaded" and what was it like?

Anybody having a Pow Wow in their council? I am again teaching the Crystal Radio and Soda Bottle Water Rockets. Hopefully we get more of those radios working this year.

FWIW, Our unit is not going to have an FOS presentation this year. We are doing the Fair Share Letter to every home in the unit. Here is a copy of what we sent home. If you would like to use it some how to make your presentation work so be it. The Names and the units have been give obvious pseudonyms. If we don't make the goal I suppose we wil try a spagetti dinner or breakfast to make up the balance, but I sure hope we get a good showing this way. Dear Parents, Our Toppling Oaks Council is a tremendous asset in bringing the Boy Scouts of America to Troop 00. Every year the Council asks Parents to help offset Council expenses through a Friends of Scouting Campaign. Our Troop (and our Cub Pack) has not held a Friends of Scouting presentation in quite some time. When such a presentation has been held both units did not react well to the program. We as parents need to help finance the efforts of our Council so it may continue to provide the best possible Scouting experience for your son. This is not a them and us situation. The name of this years fundraiser for the Council is Fair Share and the Council is asking for $1 a week per Scout to help with the Council costs. The total Council cost per Scout is $250. The Council will raise 4/5ths of the $250 per Scout. It is up to us to come up with only 20% of the cost to help out. The Troop Committee has mailed this directly to your home. We need you to know the following: Your son is required to return this pledge envelope. Please fill in the flap and seal the envelope and return it not later than the 7 February Troop Meeting. The pledge envelope is from the days of the FOS campaigns so please do not get caught up in some of the things it says. Under the envelope flap Fair Share is $112, ignore this. It is voluntary that you pledge the desired $52. Your son will not be denied any service from the council or from the Troop. Nobody from our Troop will know what your pledge is. No envelope will be opened by the Troop. The committee will know the aggregate amount from our unit, but your pledge will not be revealed to any member of our Troop. If you are financially able and wish to pledge more, please do so. I personally think Scouting is a bargain, the services and guidance provided to our sons by professionals and volunteers is truly a gift. $52 dollars/year is equal to about $4.50/ month. I hope you feel the program is worth that much to your son. Sometimes I wish every parent came to every event that your son attends. Volunteers in the Troop are often blessed with seeing your sons smiles of joy or determined expressions that result in trial and often success. If you cannot pledge the $52 please consider some smaller amount as all pledges go far in helping our Council. Enclosed are some frequently asked questions and some answers that I hope you find enlightening. Thank you for considering this matter. On behalf of the Troop Committee, we are truly glad that your son enjoys Scouting Yours in Scouting, Haystack Calhoun Acting Committee Chair, Proud Volunteer Frequently asked questions about Fair Share What if I want to help, but right now its a bad time to ask me to contribute? Firstly, thank you for your pledge. Second, you may specify how you are billed. If the holidays beat you up and summer is the best time please specify on the envelope flap when you would like to contribute. Please return the sealed envelope by 7 February. We pay a registration fee to the Troop isnt that enough? The Troop registration covers the National fee of $11. This year we are getting the boys tee shirts, they were budgeted at $10. The balance will go to equipment, advancement and other Troop expenses. Popcorn and Tree Sales help too. Council does not receive any funding from the Troop registration. What about the United Way? The United Way in the Capital District gives about $30,000. This is $260,000 below the national United Way average that is received by an average Boy Scout Council of our same size located anywhere through out the rest of our country. Who pays the other 4/5ths? Corporate sponsors have a long history of helping our Council. Endowments from those who went before us do their part. Popcorn sales help the Council. What about SEFA or other State employee programs? That is a great question. SEFA helps Scouting. Our Troop can get credit from your SEFA donation. If you specified our Council on your SEFA form that is great. If your last name is something other than you sons please let us know about your SEFA contribution so we may link it to our Troop. Doesnt the Council earn money when I pay for my son to go to Summer Camp? Our Councils camp fee is subsidized by the Council. In the spirit of maximum camp attendance by boys of varied economic means the cost we pay to go to camp is not a money maker for the Council. It is feared that Camp would be beyond the means of many if the real cost was charged. One Scout in twelve that attends camp is aided with direct financial help from our Council. Will this be a one time contribution? No. Our Council incurs the same costs every year. Truth is, the finance committee has been taking money from some endowment funds meant for the Councils long term savings. Our council has always had expenses and as long as they support our sons they always will. The Council is audited by the same firm that our own Cher Bono uses to audit ACME Roadrunner Catchers. If you have any other questions please call Rumplestilskin at 867-5309, he will get you an answer. The Committee wants to again thank you for funding a program that gives our boys a great time now and can contribute so much to their future.

About a month ago I saw some ad for Llamas and Alpacas. I tried to reply right then and there, but the 'puter was on the fritz. Hunt and OGE were right. I think the next thing we should try for surplus diamond abrasives

yes Hunt, I got my subjects mixed up. 100% when you teach or 1 on 1 time or sign off, not the BOR. My Cubs Scouts used to get made when they brought a knot to me and asked if it was right. If It was I'd say yes and then promptly untie it. They would say, "Whatcha do that for?" I replied well make it again you just showed you know how! Thanks again to all who contributed.

First, thank you to all who replied. You really can learn a lot here. Second, thank you to the old grey fellow bird of prey(those with talons rule!)that was where I read a Scout should never fail. I guess I'd like to be known as an adult that expects 100%. Who wants to be known as easy? "Ah, give it to Mr. Jekyll to sign off on, he's easy" I think you cheat a kid when you do that. It gives me no pleasure to refuse a Scout promotion but even less to pass a boy and have him think the whole program is a bunch of male bovine soil. They come to be challenged. Nothing in the world is better than the "achievement smile". That's the look you get when the whole thing comes together. That's golden! I'll admit a kid could pitch tents in our unit all year long and never have to knot anything because of the way our tents are made. I'm sure many of you have some of the same kind of tents. As far as freezing up. They do get scared once in a while but I've know some of these kids for 5 years. Some times we tell them to lighten up and calm down. Thanx again for all your replies.

Ed, One thing is knots, we can't throw a kid a rope at a board and say "can you demonstrate a bowline for us". Or a tautline. Last week I had a kid admit to me he could not tie a tautline in a BOR. Didn't know what the knot was used for. We had two kids that could not do even one pull up. We have all been down that road with a thread saying "from locked down to 90 degree arm flex is improvement". I didn't vote to fail both boys, but if you have zero of something improvement is 1. In kindergarten, in 1968 we did pull ups every week. I spent an entire year flopping around hanging under that bar like a hooked fish. I did not do one until first grade, but I sure remember the day my chin got over the bar. Why do we "sea lawyer" the requirement to mean any miniscule improvement is ok? I think it was in Scouter magazine that I read that a Scout should never fail a board. Last night some of the parents discussed having every Scout make a knot board to display his knot work and bring it to the board. Somebody said it best, "Some knowledge is a mile wide and one inch deep" This week end I'm making a couple of lashing boxes for the boys to learn with. This stuff has to stop.

I have seen literature from BSA saying that TF to star a boy should never fail a BOR. Have you ever failed a Scout and why? The BOR is not supposed to be a retest, how do you make sure all the requirements have been met? Say a PL wants to be a nice guy and signs off and then the SM doesn't catch it that a skill has been missed and it comes up in the BOR what do you do? I feel like sometimes we are just passing kids along, kind of like Schools used to do until to Sr. High and some mean teacher took and interest in making sure Johnny was somewhat prepared for the real world and then found out he couldn't read. Why is Mr Finney picking on my johnny so? The BSA makes a BOR sound like the old Mike Douglas show: How are you? What's you favorite place to go? Is there anything we can help you with? Yadda freakin' yadda yadda What feeling of accomplishment is there in that? Back in the old days could you ever ask questions that you made sure the kid knew his stuff?

Elizabeth, I don't know if you still need need this info, go to www.jamboreetroop108.com and ask the webmaster your question. He will help. That website only seems to connect through a google search. I don't know why.

Made you look! Made you look! I wanted to thank everyone here and on all the boards forputting up with me, a great year of fellowship, advice and knowledge. Wishing you and all your units a safe and fun new year has we all do our best to provide a great program for the boys. uz2bnowl, a good ole owl too.......

Soda bottle water rockets. Get two liter soda bottle, find launcher making directions on the net, SAFETY FIRST NEVER LAST, HAVE A FUTURE NOT A PAST. kids just love this event. I can send you a PP presentation if you email me at BSANRACERT@AOL.COM

Camp Wakpominee is very near the southern tip of Lake George. Great place, boys who lead really care about the kids. Search Twin Rivers Council BSA. I drive past Curtis Read all the time, but have never spent a week there. It is very near Pharaoh Lake which is a great backpacking trip. It is the largest lake in the 'dacks with no road frontage. Probably the most popular canoe venture is from Raquette to Long to Tupper lakes. Watch the group size, but it is a great trip.

This is interesting. The big question is could he have come out of this all by himself or would he have died with out medical attention? Would he have lived by warming alone? I know sometimes kids that fall through the ice survive when they should have died, but that is well documented and the docs know why. From the too much info dept.: A documentary stated that bears eat clay prior to their big winter nap. This clay plug forms and the end of their digestive tract. It acts as a wall and keeps out parasites. Holy biting bed bugs Batman!!!

Hey great for you!!!!! Have the beading where ever you want 'cause it's you day. I'll bet your boys(the biological ones and the ones you serve) will be very proud!!!!!!

Hey great for you!!!!! Have the beading where ever you want 'cause it's you day. I'll bet your boys(the biological ones and the ones you serve) will be very proud!!!!!!

Seems Scott and Shackleton did not always see eye to eye. I saw the Shackelton Exp. on the Hist. Channel. They had two guys actually walk and get help. Now there is two tough ombres.