Sturgen

My troop has only sold popcorn once, and never again, for the time and energy put into it the profit turnover is too low. Instead we hold an annual spaghetti dinner, donations accepted but not required, we normally make about $500 there, and of course it is a wonderful, although frightening, leadership project for a 14 or 15 yr old, coincidently my first major leadership project as a youth. There is no reason a similar project couldnt be done multiple times a year. We also are fortunate enough to have our SMs step daughter being a relatively well known sculptor. She donates several statues to the troop at cost, and we sell them at retail, mainly to parents of eagle scouts from our troop. Some of you may be familiar with the statue, I believe it is still the National Prestige Award in Scouting, titled Footsteps to the Future by Greenbar Bill, if you look closely my troops number is on the shoulder. I would encourage all troops to expand beyond popcorn, keep selling if you like, but it never hurts to try out some other projects as well. Christmas wreathes, tree disposal, bird houses, almost any product a boy can produce, you can sell.

Most lodges have two or more ordeals each year, my lodge has three in the fall and one or two in the spring, even if the requirements states that only half the boys in the troop may attend an ordeal, I can see the reasoning behind this. Also depending on if this rule is a national or lodge regulation you could most likely simply convince the advisor or chief to allow all the boys to attend, considering that you have such a small troop, and just keep them relatively separated from one another.

We all know what city wheeler lives in. We all know that he spends a substantial amount of time in a library in relative proximity to a scout office of some sort or another. I propose an angry mob; its the time-tested system of getting rid of monsters. In my experience torches, farm tools, and clubs work best.

To my understanding a girl under 16 cannot be part of a staff because they cannot be a member of the BSA. I am not saying that a 16 or 17 year-old girl is not capable of working on a camp staff, more as to what FOG was getting at. As to why camps are looking for outsiders, at least it has been my experience that the council treats its temporary camp employees so poorly that it forces a high turnover, those who stay are able to put up with the BS for the sake of the boys and a love for the camp. You can only turn over so many individuals before you are forced to draw from an outside population. Unfortunately these are some of the most incompetent individuals.

Since my first little opinion post caused such a heated debate I thought I would put this one forth: Ought Boy Scout resident camps hire female junior staffers (under 18)? It has been my experience that this causes nothing but trouble, no matter how strict regulations and supervision is relationships form and kids sneak off into the woods for some reason or another. As far as I am concerned for senior staff this is just a part of life and being legal responsible for themselves I see no reason to restrict the hiring of female senior staff dramatically, although romantic relations should be discouraged of course. However for youth this is a different matter all together, during those eight weeks the senior staff, the camp director and ultimately the council are responsible for the safety and wellbeing of the youth, the presence of female junior staffers can cause some rather drastic issues to arise.

oops!(This message has been edited by Sturgen)

huh?

I am aware that BSA does not permit the use of pistols in the program, outside of Venturing, and I can understand in part the reasoning behind this. However, part of scouting is teaching boys how to survive and an unfortunate fact in todays world is that there may be a time that basic use of a hand gun may be critical to saving a life. Since I could walk I have been trained to use weapons, ranging from BB-guns to .30-06 and .54 cal rifles and .40 and .44mag hand guns. I am fortunate enough to have been trained by retired Air Force, retired Marine, Police Officers and Federal Range Masters. Because of this I have always respected firearms, and to this day I am comfortable with almost any fire arm legal for civilian carry (have yet to get my hands on any fully auto assault weapons.) In the interest of firearms safety shouldnt the BSA train boys in how to use these weapons, the best way to get a boy to be dangerously interested in something is to make it forbidden. I am not suggesting that we intergrate .44 magnums or .30-06 rifles into the program, simply that as part of the rifle merit badge boys also learn about and fire larger caliber weapons than .22s as well as learn very basic skills in regards to handguns. (I am quite aware that weapons do not exist in the BSA)

Wasnt it a .44 mag, not a .357 mag that can make [or break] my day

Jabeezees Batman, I was just being cynical and this turned into a huge list, I was simply trying to mimic wheeler, the point was lost I guess, time for me to go off and cry myself to sleep. For any of you interested on a comprehensive view of the almighty Sam Clemens in regards of religion check out The Bible According to Mark Twain edited by Baetzhold and McCullough. I have just started reading it but so far it is wonderful.

I have a feeling that you are going to have about as much luck finding a detailed structure tree as you are getting a detailed national or council budget.

Yeah, thats exactly what Im getting at, at least in my part of the world some of those institutions are better than my old dorm room.

Aristotle is much more smarter than you and I Mes think he done gone to grammar skooling. When was Aristotle reborn, I thought he was dead? Sorry I couldnt resist.

I see you kind of forgot to mention your source, oh, wait, here it is, Al Jazeerah, not a real reliable source of information if I do say so myself. I prefer to read news not propaganda. Al Jazeerah's like Michael Moores Bowling for Columbine, you could watch (or read) for two hours and maybe find a few facts, but those are so buried in horse manure that you need a backhoe to find them. Operation Enduring Misery; the Afghanistan Debacle By Mike Whitney Al Jazeerah Feb 20 2004 1:30AM GMT

Since quotes are becoming more important then wisdom around here, thought I would quote a man I consider one of the wisest in American literature. A statesman gains little by the arbitrary exercise of ironclad authority upon all occasions that offer, for this wounds the just pride of his subordinates, and thus tends to undermine his strength. A little concession, now and then, where it can do no harm is the wiser policy. - A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court You ought never to "sass" old people- unless they "sass" you first. - Advice for Good Little Girls It is wrong to put a sheepskin under your shirt when you know that you are going to get a licking. It is better to retire swiftly to a secret place and weep over your bad conduct until the storm blows over. - Advice for Good Little Boys You should never do anything wicked and lay it on your brother, when it is just as convenient to lay it on some other boy. - Advice for Good Little Boys Be respectful to your superiors, if you have any. - Advice to Young People speech, 4/15/1882 If I had been helping the Almighty when he created man, I would have had him begin at the other end, and start human beings with old age. How much better to start old and have all the bitterness and blindness of age in the beginning! - Mark Twain, a Biography Life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages. - Letter to Edward Dimmitt, 7/19/1901 I was young and foolish then; now I am old and foolisher. - Mark Twain, a Biography But we are fearfully and wonderfully made, and we glorious Americans will occasionally astonish the God that created us when we get a fair start. - "The Bolters in Convention," Territorial Enterprise, 12/30/1863 We are called the nation of inventors. And we are. We could still claim that title and wear its loftiest honors if we had stopped with the first thing we ever invented, which was human liberty. - Foreign Critics speech, 1890 The average American may not know who his grandfather was. But the American was, however, one degree better off than the average Frenchman who, as a rule, was in considerable doubt as to who his father was. - quoted in "Stories of Mark Twain," C. D. Williard, Pacific Outlook, 4/30/1910 There is no character, howsoever good and fine, but it can be destroyed by ridicule, howsoever poor and witless. Observe the ass, for instance: his character is about perfect, he is the choicest spirit among all the humbler animals, yet see what ridicule has brought him to. Instead of feeling complimented when we are called an ass, we are left in doubt. - Pudd'nhead Wilson Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. - Notebook, 1898 It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies. - Letters from the Earth The two Testaments are interesting, each in its own way. The Old one gives us a picture of these people's Deity as he was before he got religion, the other one gives us a picture of him as he appeared afterward. - Letters from the Earth The Christian's Bible is a drug store. Its contents remain the same; but the medical practice changes...The world has corrected the Bible. The church never corrects it; and also never fails to drop in at the tail of the procession- and take the credit of the correction. During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. the Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after eight hundred years, gathered up its halters, thumb-screws, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry.....There are no witches. The witch text remains; only the practice has changed. Hell fire is gone, but the text remains. Infant damnation is gone, but the text remains. More than two hundred death penalties are gone from the law books, but the texts that authorized them remain. - "Bible Teaching and Religious Practice," Europe and Elsewhere When one reads Bibles, one is less surprised at what the Deity knows than at what He doesn't know. - Mark Twain's Notebook To believe yourself brave is to be brave; it is the one only essential thing. - Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc The universal brotherhood of man is our most precious possession--what there is of it. - Mark Twain's Notebook The primary rule of business success is loyalty to your employer. That's all right--as a theory. What is the matter with loyalty to yourself? - Speech, 3/30/1901 If the man doesn't believe as we do, we say he is a crank, and that settles it. It mean, it does nowadays, because now we can't burn him. - Following the Equator Between believing a thing and thinking you know is only a small step and quickly taken. - "3,000 Years Among Citizenship is what makes a republic; monarchies can get along without it. - Speech 3/4/1906 Cizitenship should be placed above everything else, even learning. Is there in any college of the land a chair of citizenship where good citizenship and all that it implies is taught? There is not one--that is, not one where sane citizenship is taught. There are some which teach insane citizenship, bastard citizenship, but that is all. Patriotism! Yes; but patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel. He is the man who talks the loudest. - Speech, 5/14/1908 ....every citizen of the republic ought to consider himself an unofficial policeman, and keep unsalaried watch and ward over the laws and their execution. - "Traveling With a Reformer" Good citizenship would teach accuracy of thinking and accuracy of statement. - Speech, May 14, 1908 Communism is idiocy. They want to divide up the property. Suppose they did it -- it requires brains to keep money as well as make it. In a precious little while the money would be back in the former owner's hands and the communist would be poor again. - Mark Twain, a Biography Where was the use, originally, in rushing this whole globe through in six days? It is likely that if more time had been taken in the first place, the world would have been made right, and this ceaseless improving and repairing would not be necessary now. But if you hurry a world or a house, you are nearly sure to find out by and by that you have left out a towhead, or a broom-closet, or some other little convenience, here and there, which has got to be supplied, no matter how much expense or vexation it may cost. - Life on the Mississippi Man was made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain's Notebook Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. - Mark Twain, a Biography If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. - Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar A composite dog is a dog that's made up of all the valuable qualities that's in the dog breed--kind of a syndicate; and a mongrel is made up of the riffraff that's left over. - Mark Twain in Eruption The dog is a gentleman; I hope to go to his heaven, not man's. - Letter to W. D. Howells, 4/2/1899 I believe our Heavenly Father invented man because he was disappointed in the monkey. - Mark Twain in Eruption It now seems plain to me that that theory ought to be vacated in favor of a new and truer one...the Descent of Man from the Higher Animals. - "The Lowest Animal" Man has been here 32,000 years. That it took a hundred million years to prepare the world for him is proof that that is what it was done for. I suppose it is. I dunno. If the Eiffel tower were now representing the world's age, the skin of paint on the pinnacle-knob at its summit would represent man's share of that age; & anybody would perceive that that skin was what the tower was built for. I reckon they would. I dunno. - "Was the World Made for Man?" I guess that really ought to be enough, if anyone wants f-z on the list let me know.

A guy walked into a bar, and said ouch.

Sounds a lot like a camp ranger we used to have, he would also schedule groups off the council books to stay at the camp and pocket the cash. He pulled that off for five years i think. Youve got to love it when council starts axing the innocent. Two years in a row this has happened at my camp, the first time if the Camp Director (the axed one) hadnt begged us to stay, the entire senior staff would have walked. The second time they refused to fire a senior staffer who was in constant violation of BSA policy on a firing range, but instead fired one of the senior staffers whos father went to the Council Executive about the issue. In regards to the food service for the OA, several OA events are only open to members and, at least in my lodge, being the head cook for the lodge is a very honored position, one that only the best hold. Which could be why there is resistance to privately contracting out food service.(This message has been edited by Sturgen)

Hail Comrades, may I suggest going to http://www.scouting2007.org, there you can sign up to receive emails in regards to the world jambo.

My main concern is that most of his planning has basically been working with the organization and finding out what they want, he as yet to look at supplies, samples, or done any of the pricing. If that had already been done I would have no concerns, he could definitely finish the project then. Its looking like my brother, who is also working on his eagle project, will end up giving him a hand.

We just had a life scout in our troop break his back, he was in the process of planning his eagle project and now for obvious reasons he may have to change his project a bit, any suggestions on potential projects, most likely he will hand over the organization he is working with right now to another older scout, so that he may have a project less physically labor intensive for the leader. He was going to be doing construction of heavy tables and bike racks out of steel and 4x4s for a local low income housing units run by a non-prof. Seeing as he will most likely be on bedrest for quite a while followed by very limited physical activity he will most likely not be able to complete this project by the time the non-prof would like their tables and bike racks.

It's difficult for me to believe that someone could be "recruited" to homosexual activity if they are not oriented toward it. For the sake of anonymity of friends and acquaintances I would prefer to not get into details; however I know at least 6, possibly as many as 10 individuals who have been as you say recruited to homosexuality/bisexuality. This occurred at a camp, with a predominantly female staff in the western United States. One of the individuals who worked there, although not out of the closet, was gay. This last summer several others began homosexual relationships of one nature or another. Thats as many as 30% of the camps population, a far disproportionate amount for the surrounding communities; which have a heavy Catholic and LDS influence as well as a predominantly conservative political belief. The nearest hotbed of homosexual activity, by hotbed I mean large population where homosexuals are openly accepted (like NY, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, etc.) is nearly 400 miles away. Also look at universities, even public high schools, Gay/Lesbian/Bi/Tran clubs are becoming ever more popular, to the point as which it is cool to be gay. Why do you think the current trend for male actors and musicians to look effeminate comes from? Or the increasing popularity of female musicians kissing each other on stage? Ok, maybe that last one is trying to attract a male audience. But the point still stands. On a side bar, msnowman, dont worry about what others think, just state your mind, avoid posts thousands of words long filled with quotes from Plato and no one is going to be to bothered by you. Look at me, I spout off about one thing or another fairly often, I would hope that it isnt held against me, but whats the worst that can happen, some guy half way across the country thinks youre a pain in the rear, thats about it.

If you havent noticed I try to use science, not the bible to argue facts. Heres a scientific argument for you. Sex is a means of reproduction, in fact until the last decade or so it was the only means of reproduction for all primates, and the vast majority of animals, depending on how you define sex. Homosexual sex does not, nor can it ever bring about reproduction, it is biologically impossible. In regards to your comment that victorious armies no longer rape their opponents, you obviously have never studied the Middle East, South Africa, or any other modern areas of comment, although the militaries of first world nations may no longer participate in mass rapes, it still occurs on an individual basis in all militaries, and in mass numbers in uncivilized countries.

Im so sorry for the groups ignorance. I suppose most of us are to busy with work, education, scouting, family, church, etc to sit down and read for 12 hours a day. It really is shameful, I personally am beating myself with a coup stick as I type to punish myself for not dedicating my life to books written by dead guys. I must halt all of my attempts to become a better human being and become a quote-a-matic 3000. Must memorize Plato. Must memorize Socrates.

I would like to make a suggestion. For the most part we all seem to believe that evolution exists to some extent or another, or at least we agree that philosophy does not disprove evolution in any way. You can always convince, debate or educate a fool. However it is impossible to educate a mad man. Wheelers posts are all carbon copies of one another stating the same basic points, however providing no evidence, while several others have provided evidence through links to universities and academic associations. Let us allow the mad man to ramble on henceforth. It shall do no harm, and there seems to be no point in debating the issue when we receive the same answers, outside of the utter amusement of the results of one burring themselves in the darkest corners of libraries. Just another thought, other than a university there is only a couple other public institution where you live in poverty have free computer and library access, multiple low paying jobs, confined living quarters, and no access to transportation.

Wheeler here is where you show your faults: In your first thread you state Evolution says dirt, which is dead produced life. How can something dead produce something living? However you later state God made a form from the mud mud is the same thing as wet dirt I do hope you realize. You also state that All men are reproductions of this first man. We have differentiated into races but we are all created. If you are ignorant enough to believe this to be true so be it, however you have just presented some great evidence that evolution exists. If we are all reproductions of the first man, then we ought to all look identical to him in all ways. The differentiation in the races is due to natural selection, a key part of evolutionary theory. You seem to have much time on your hands to read, may I suggest you try reading something written in the last couple of hundred years. If truth is timeless as you seem to believe then what is to say that a little book titles The Origin of Species is not the truth? Perhaps you are simply working your way through history reading every text ever written and have been stuck in the biblical times for far to long, believe it or not its been a couple thousand years since Plato died. Maybe just maybe he missed something seeing as he only traveled a small portion of the earth compared to any evolutionary theorist, and most likely less than most residents of the United States. It is impossible to make any observations about life if you are buried in books in dark hallways of ancient Greece.