Sturgen

We have already tried going through the council program director. Is there an organization or branch of the BSA at a national or regional level who would be able to help out. I have no problem with using the councils program director however its getting close enough to the start of the resident camp season that Im worried we wont be able to find a foreign scouter. Personally I simply want a foreign staff member at camp, it is an invaluable experience for all involved. I have contacted a few individuals in northern Germany to see if they have friends, or friends of friends who would be interested, the disadvantage to this is that they would barely be able to pay off the trip with what they would make working at my camp. I was hoping that by going through proper channels we could get the individual flown over here at a lower cost to them, so that they may have some spending money here in the states.

Perhaps you could offer a spaghetti dinner or something of that nature with a raffle involved, so that those who loose the raffle still get something for their money. My troop has run a free spaghetti dinner (donations strongly encouraged) every year before an annual race and has made as much as $3000 in one night, that ought to buy you all the ropes and most of the harnesses you will need for a couple of years. It would also be feasible to integrate more items than the gun into the raffle, Free COPE for a group of 8, gift certificates to local stores/restraints, ride-along with a city police officer, camping gear, etc. The primary issue would be getting as many people to the dinner as possible. As far as costs, im sure you could find a church willing to donate a fellowship hall, kitchen and dishes at no cost, that leaves you with food, which if you buy in bulk can be as low as a couple of hundred dollars.

Lets just say that he isnt exactly an individual who is easily encouraged to do his job, is there any way that a lowly area director or program director can do anything about it. Also is there anyway to choose where this scout comes from. Being as I speak German I would be enthralled to have a phadfinder from Germany, Austria, or Switzerland.

This thread was spun from another thread.I resent the implication that I carry an mp3 player or any other similar device on a camping trip. I never have nor do any of the boys, in my troop. Also the general belief that wisdom only comes with age is ridiculous. Age is only a factor. Being as you seem to hold BSA Policy as gospel I would submit that in the eyes of the BSA I a technically fall into that hole somewhere between a youth (kid) and an adult, as a 20 yr old who earned his Eagle Rank, I am permitted to be the second adult on a BSA outing. I submit that in the eyes of the BSA, I, and others like me, are sub-adults. I do not claim to know any of the individuals on this forum, however I doubt many of you at the age of 17 have been in charge of an outpost camp, with 20 boys in your care, with at least two cougars stalking in the darkness. In this situation, I was forced to take charge because the 30 yr old volunteer staffer, and the three adult leaders (late 40s) of the boys were too frightened to think clearly. Last year I held the lives of at least one hundred individuals as the assistant on a COPE course, without one injury. I have dealt with bomb threats, lost boys, YPIs, you name it. I am not stating any of this to brag, just to inform. I have met many other individuals who have experienced far more than they are credited for due to their age. Just because we are young doesnt always mean we arent wise. Have some faith in your youth, your children; one of the biggest problems in the BSA is that it fails to put enough responsibility on the youth. Adults lead far too much. If todays young men are not given the chance to lead, the chance to learn, the chance to experience, our future as well as yours is bleak at best. I do not claim to be a sage, or even remarkably wise. I am simply a young MAN, concerned about his peers, and a program he has given more than a continuous two thirds of his life to.

First I would like to thank you for your service as an officer of the law, being the son of a police officer I can appreciate the sacrifices you and your family make daily. Now on to COPE. I worked last year on a COPE course at my home camp and I am a certified COPE Instructor, my director last year and I have often looked for ways to improve the course and our supplies. One thing I may suggest is opening up the COPE course to organizations outside of scouting as well as troops for a fee during the off season. Similar courses charge as much as $75 per person per day for a group of eight. Seeing that you would have no need to buy extra gear to do this, you would only suffer the wear and tear on the ropes, which would be well worth the extra cost, even if you charged as low as $15-$20 per person. Carabiners, harnesses, ATCs, etc. have to be replaced based on age not use, unless of course they are abused, so these would get no additional wear as far as BSA is concerned. I would also suggest you contact several climbing/outdoor specialty shops in your area or large corporations. They may be willing and able to sponsor the course. For instance REI may be willing to sponsor the course if you agree to wear climbing gear with the REI name on it and hand out stickers to the participants, although the corporate influence is not desirable, it is a small cost to pay if you can get new supplies. Then there is always the good old-fashioned begging for donations at camp, at roundtables, at any event that could possibly get you a few bucks. Most importantly keep COPEng with it.

Is anybody aware of the process for a camp to apply for or get a foreign scouter to work on staff? I am working with the program director and said I would give him a hand with this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, The Fish

Venturescout: perhaps I ought to have been clearer, by sash I was referring to the merit badge sash. My reference to the OA was simply in regards to it is one of the few places where a youth can hold a leadership position at higher than the troop level, hence requiring a bit more formality. In regards to uniform pants, I am of the opinion that uniformity within the troop is more important than uniformity at a national level. I got in a good little debate in regards to this with a member of the national council in the Seattle area. Blue jeans always look awful, but khakis look fine with the current shirt, and although I generally dislike the woodland camo BDUs they are a sign of patriotism to some troops from military bases.

I knew I was right (in part) in regards to BSA policy, however policy and practicality are often two different things. Training, experience and common sense are far more important. My father, grandfather, great-grandfather, etc. have chopped wood without all of the modern safety conveniences and we have yet to have a problem, if you want to carry a pair of safety glasses 50 miles into the woods, more power to you, but I consider it just as safe to go with the axe alone.

Although I do agree that BSA should help turn boys into men, as well as whatever doesnt kill you makes you stronger thats a completely different subject. I would definitely not want wheeler in my troop. I was more making a point that life is tough, get over it, and that it is not a function of his poverty that prevents him from being in scouting, but more a function of laziness. Personally I hold personal observation in higher regard than Plato or Socrates, although I do prefer using the Socratic method when educating youth.

Actually for most youth, not holding a national position in OA or something of the sort, it would be far cheaper as that all they would need is the shirt and sash from the BSA. Shoes, pants, socks could all come from any other store as long as they were presentable. Most troops that I have met already produce a troop neckerchief, t-shirt, and sometimes hat at little or no cost to their members. Of the top of my head the scout pants are $45 and the socks are $8, most kids have a pair of khaki pants and if not, they can be picked up for $5 at any thrift store. As to wear for under the uniform in colder months, troops ought to make a decision on what they want for themselves, it could be as simple as a white long sleeved t with no writing on it.

Perhaps we should carry leather chaps, safety glasses, hard hats, and those wooden boots logger competitors wear.

Was Aristotle or Plato Christians? How ignorant must you be? Christianity is one of many religions, not religion itself, there is no way of determining either of these mens religious beliefs because they are dead, and whether you choose to believe it or not, not all knowledge is contained in books. Socrates is a man. All men die. Socrates will die. This is a fact. This is knowledge. But I arrived at this through a syllogism. A syllogism is a part of Logic and logic a part of philosophy. Is the syllogism a religion? Is logic a religion? Is common sense a religion? I can equally say Socrates is a man. I want Socrates to be dead. Socrates is dead. How ridiculous is that. Logic and philosophy can be used to support a theory, or even innovate one, but they cannot prove a theory, ever. It takes science, observation, analysis. Days, years, even centuries of work to come to a consensus It is funny that the whole time his works were lost to the Western world, nobody ever duplicated his work. Not really, I would tend to think it wasnt duplicated because it was false. Does physical science answer the question What is love? Does love exist if it can't be proved scientifically? Actually it does, I have neither the time nor energy to look it up now, but both sexual and emotional love have been defined through science. The rough and tough definition being chemical signals sent through the body to the brain designed to encourage survival of a species. Philosophy has said the world was flat, the earth was the center of all, man is not able to fly, hundreds, if not thousands of things that science has proven wrong. Simply because science has yet to prove something does not mean it never will. A few years ago cancer or a heart attack meant certain death, now both are commonly survived by millions of individuals. Wheeler, your profile only mentions only three or so years of formal education, as I am sure you are aware Socrates believed firmly in the importance of a sage, or other instructor to guide the students to intelligent thought through questioning. As a follower of his, almost religiously it seems, should you not instead of reading books be listening to a wise sage, allowing him or her to guide you to true knowledge.

Bah, you and your poor poverty, I can show no sympathy, I am living on my own, studying full time at a university and working 30 hours a week for minimum wage, and Im still able to be a Lodge Secretary, ASM, and Crew President, I own no car, only a bike, pay for all of my schooling, lodging, activities etc. If for some reason I need a vehicle for a weekend I borrow one from a friend or my parents. I refuse to believe that poverty has lead you to a life where you can not afford to be active with a troop. I would suggest you look at this page, its for a wonderful new invention called public transportation! Its even in your community, how amazing is that. http://www.battlecreektransit.com . Many troops are always looking for leaders as well, I am sure once you became active with a unit other leaders would be more than willing to give you a ride to most any event. Also many states have programs for the impoverished such as yourself where they provide you with a car at little to no cost. I say blast to your false martyrdom. Its kind of hard to do a lot of things, you just have to remove your posterior from the ground and do it.

The BSA needs to overhaul the entire uniform system. To do this I would suggest a number of things: First the uniform needs to be inexpensive, so that all boys can afford the full uniform, shirt, pants, socks, belt, etc. Instead of $40 a piece for the shirt and pants, perhaps $40 together. Second the BSA needs to stop pushing wearing the full uniform while hiking or camping, I would never wear $200 dollars worth of cotton on a hike. Instead there need to be three different uniform sets, I will call them class A-C. A: Formal uniform, same as class B however BSA pants and socks are mandatory, with a neck or bolo tie, and black polished dress shoes or boots for adults, and MB sash and dress shoes or boots for youth. Campaign hat optional. This class is primarily for use at COH, BSA award ceremonies, when representing the BSA in a formal setting, funerals, etc. B: Full uniform, BSA shirt, BSA pants or respectable khaki pants, neckerchief (optional for adults), dark socks for BSA pants, hiking boots or respectable shoes. This would be the primary uniform for meetings, volunteer service, scout resident camp, etc. Campaign hat or BSA/troop Baseball Cap optional. C: Work/Hiking Uniform, BSA official or Troop t-shirt, sweater, or jacket, any type of respectable pants depending on activity, appropriate foot wear, BSA or troop hat where appropriate. This would be used for active physical service in the public, hiking, resident camp activity times, etc. Any BSA hat or other respectable head cover is appropriate Anything else would be considered work or civilian wear, which are both appropriate depending on the activity for wear at BSA functions, examples being painting, staining, concrete or other work where clothes may be permanently damaged or stained. Changing the current scout pants to resemble in structure, although not color or design, to current military BDUs would also make the uniform more appealing to youth and more functional for all. A reduction in cost of a BSA jacket, either the red jacket or an olive drab equivalent would also encourage individuals to wear said jackets on a regular basis. Many youth have very limited incomes, and many parents are not willing to turn over $100 for a uniform their son will wear once a week, and most likely grow out of in two years.

If sexuality is determined by the act, i.e. a homosexual is any individual who participates in same sex sexual relations. Then to be heterosexual one must have participated in male-female sexual relations. By this definition, I would have no sexuality, being as I am not married, hence have yet to have sexual relations with any woman. However I am solely attracted to members of the female sex, would not that make me heterosexual? Hence any individual who is attracted to a member of the same sex would be homosexual, regardless of whether they had done the deed or not. There is no definitive evidence proving either nature or nurture, science can be used to support both, and there has not been enough time or interest to determine a exact answer, however quoting a book, or an old dead guy isnt proof, it is barely evidence. The simple fact is that any book can be misconstrued and used to support any argument, the bible is especially prone to this as that there are only half a dozen people in the world that can read the original texts, and there are so many translations, interpretations and scholars on the subject that the true meaning has been lost and will most likely never be found by man until the apocalypse when only 1% of those claiming to be faithful shall be saved, because the others are to busy fighting over who is god, and who is the messiah, and who or what created the world.

The reason your post has received several negative remarks is: a) you have already stated that you are not active in the program now, nor have you been for several years, yet you continue to say we as if you are an active member of the program b) this post simply states what anyone who has been to resident camp twice could tell you, with an air of superiority on your part c) you end by calling the entire world socialist d) although you may have spent much time in the military, a honorable profession, you have buried yourself in the books of old dead guys and seem to have lost all touch with the real world and common sense in general, choosing to quote Aristotle and Plato instead of making intelligent independent decisions

Axes have been the tool of choice for outdoorsmen since the stone age. Axes are a tried and true tool to be used in the woods for all of history, and until recently (historically speaking) they were a major tool in construction of almost every building. Far more efficient and effective than any bow saw, and as one of the wisest man I ever met said: Using an axe warms you twice, once when you chop the wood and again when you burn the wood. I will always carry a axe, hatchet, tomahawk or kukri on every trip, although I have taken a fondness to the kukri and bowie knives as of late.

Although I agree with you in general, let me play the devils advocate, as I stated in some of the creation vs. evolution posts: Can you prove it? Hard, scientific evidence, and please dont use your interpretation of the Bible, since anyone can find support for both sides if they look hard enough.

My crew (founded as a camp staff crew) is in the process of becoming active during the off season, although most of are events are still up at the camp. It is really up to the crew to take action during the camp season and elect a leadership group and find advisors who are willing to keep up the program during the off season. It is a great way to serve the camp and hang out with camp friends, which in my experience are some of the best people to hang out with.

May I suggest a black powder or cowboy action club. With the bicentennial of the Corp of Discovery there are also tons of true old time camping experiences to behold, well at least along the path they followed.

Best Equipment: 2 wool blankets, a good sturdy sheath knife, Ghurka Kukri, military issue patrol boots, tevas, 200 ft of parachute cord, a reliable .40 cal revolver, BDU Pants, cotton t-shirt, wool jacket, leather gloves Worst Equipment: anything made by or for BSA, occasionally BSA (primarily the camps) will put their name on a quality piece of gear and bump the price up 125%, of course they also bump the low quality gear up 200%. Dont always think you get what you pay for. This rule works well when shopping through REI or other major retailers, and sometimes with smaller private companies, but never buy a Western Family or Kirkland Brand backpack.

THANK YOU for actually supporting boy lead troops, it is a rare occurrence now days. Locally Im sure that your council office and OA lodge would love to have more volunteers, camps always need help as well as real adults to run rifle ranges, climbing towers, COPE courses, water fronts, etc. Always a great option for teachers.

As a crew president of a coed crew, we try to make it a non-issue as much as we can. Of course all of our members have worked at a summer camp together, so are use to living together (kinda) and for the most part any failed attempts at romantics are in the past. Of course separate tents or quarters, and showering areas, but otherwise we dont force any other segregation.

By the technical standards schools use I was armed with a deadly weapon every day of my junior and senior year. I carried a small Swiss Army knife daily, I wasnt dumb enough to pull it out and show it to my friend, or try to start a fight with it. I started carrying by accident, where I would just forget to take it out of my pants pockets before I headed to school, but eventually I gave up on caring. Guess what, your kids schools are filled with weapons, guns, switchblades, butterfly knives are everywhere in schools. On top of that pens, pencils, rulers, and the average math textbook make great deadly weapons. As a scout I felt, and feel today that it is my responsibility to be prepared for any emergency that may happen at that school. And as any scout knows, a good sharp knife is the most important tool you can ever carry. (Incidentally I also carried a small first aid kit with a swisscard in my school backpack so I guess I had two knives at school. Naughty, naughty me.

Why strive to promote todays modern PC program? Because some fool in Irving says to? Ought not we strive for BPs goals? If none of you have notice Boy Scouts at the world level has been disfigured from its original program into a bumbling bunch of old men yelling at little kids. True leadership is no longer taught in the vast number of troops, instead it is replaced with lessons in how to take orders. The ignorance of those who believe that because the Texas office decided to publish a book, video, or some other mandate to the troops that that word is gospel astonishes me. Is it not seen that BP built a program to turn boys into quality men based on years of experience internationally in one of the elite world military powers. Who writes these books now? Professional Scouters, to be frank these people, in general, have no where near a quarter of the experience, knowledge or wisdom that the programs founder had. National is notorious for making decisions that are incredibly illogical. I say we need to return to the basics, the program that was set up years ago in England.