SSScout

An appropriate evocation before a canoe trip:

"Oh Lord, we are going canoeing. In a few minutes we will be very busy. Please forgive us if we happen to forget about you. Please do not forget about us".

But we digress...

The question is, then, HAS NATIONAL BSA EVER SANCTIONED THE REVOCATION OF A SCOUTS EAGLE RANK? (OR ANY RANK?) AND IF SO, WHICH COUNCIL ? AND WHAT WERE THE GROUNDS?

Yea or Nay?

Channels??? You had Channels???

We had to watch our tv by candle light. Turn on Jack Benny and stare at the wall (on which we drew a square). Ha!!

This quote has been adopted and adapted by many folks, often without attribution. A portion of it was posted in our church meeting place, adapted to read "...in the life of a child" and listed as 'anonymous'. I was moved to post a copy of the 'original' next to it, and I was surprised to find this was removed a day or two later. I re-posted it, and THAT copy has remained up. The comparison is, I think, appropriate.

I find it interesting that often the only parts included (and edited) are the first, second and last paragraphs. It looses alot with out the mid part, don't you think?

YiS.

Big Nate ran a series on the Pine derby a few years ago. If I can find the copies I made of it , I'll post'em. His car had neat red flames on the side. And his dad had bandages on his fingers and hands. MMMMMMM....

Very well said. Thank you.

In doing the camp cooking part of an adult leader training, I first had everyone repeat the 13th point of the Scout Law, "a Scout is hungry" and then repeat the CCA (camp cook axiom): " there is no food so mediocre that it can not be improved with ketchup (catsup, etc)".

Ketchup should be refrigerated over the long haul. I was once in my favorite "all-you-can-eat-" fish place. I first watched the waiter at the counter take the half empty Ketchup bottles and refill them with other half full bottles. Thrifty, yes? I then turned my attention to the bottle on my table and watched fermentation bubbles sslllooowwwlllyyy rise up from the bottom toward the top. I pointed this out to the manager and then asked for a new, unopened bottle of Hunt's.

Our troop has a policy that if you sign up for a trip, you pay your share of the food expense (prorated per meal) if you don't go, baring a real emergency reason.

Bon Apetit.

"All Politics Is Local" I forget who first said that.

"Its For The Kids" Bob the Tomatoe said that.

"If your'e going on to Boy Scouts with your son, you can't stay a Cub Master" My wife said that.

Three years ago, when I was an ACM and DL, we held a membership drive at our school. Held a PineWood Derby exhibit at the PTA picnic. Info table at "Back to School Night". Presentation at PTA meetings. Posters in the hall ways. (our pack was chartered to the local hospital thru the Board of Directors). We gained three wolves,( Wolf and Bear and Webelos dens ok) and 14 Tiger families expressed interest, so we called a special meeting to explain the program. 12 Tiger families showed up. Boys went over there and had a good time at a "Den Meeting". Parents over here for discussion. Pre planned activities. Each parent responsible for one activity a month, per year. Tiger and parent together. Go to fire house, museum, zoo, model railroad lay out, nature hike, etc..One Pack meeting a month for 1 1/2 hour a month. A Den meeting extra, if they wanted, up to them, but here's all the planning and resources and ideas. Boys love it. All buddies at school. NO ONE SIGNED UP. Not one. "Oh, that's too much time. Joey has soccer/violin/drama/rocktry/football/computer club/etc. I have to work OT too often. Our basement wouldn't make a good meeting space. I don't know anything about Scouts. Isn't that messy? I don't know how you find the time for this. It's so good of you.......". No tigers.

Webelos went on to Scouts. Bears became Webs. Wolves ALL went to other packs (parents very honest, said closer to home, home church, etc. nothing personal. No wolves). Now our pack is 12 boys: 6 Webelos, 6 bears. Same routine the next year, Interest expressed at PTA, etc. Folks come and NO ONE SIGNS UP. "Too much time" is the main complaint I heard. (Wife is Comm Chair).We had 4 very loyal Committee people. I had one father say he wants his son to be a Scout, and then he's called to IRAQ. His wife works and ...

Three Webelos become Scouts(one drops out), we gain 3 Bears, one Web 2. I double as CM and WDL. I announce that after this year, I will not be CM. (son moving on to Scouts. See above). Parent offers to PAY ME to stay on as CM (!) Pack has folded. All remaining families transferred to other packs. Father who promised to be WDL never called meetings. All Webs transferred or dropped. No one would take up reins as CC or CM.

When we rechartered, each year, we filled out the names, BUT COUNCIL NEVER DELETED the old members. In my last year of CM, the charter form STILL showed our pack with 26 members.

After Pack dissolved (still chartered!) DE and ADE made many efforts to recruit from the school. NO ONE. Charter is still "active", but now no boys.

I only had ONE parent (otherwise very active) express angst about signing the Adult application because of the "Expression of Faith" paragraph.

What does all this say about.... Volunteers? ... Policies?... Scandals?...

YiS...

Scouts..... Boys..... (Girls....)Cubs...Campers... Please, not 'guys'... Call them, name them for what they ARE, what you WANT them to be. Not the "G" word...

... lets see now..."guy... from the Fr. 1)(obs) a grotesque effigy of Guy Fawlkes, paraded on Guy Fawlkes Day. 2)(slang) a male person. 3) VT. to brace or reinforce. 4) to guide, as on a path."

Don't rename our organization. Are you a Scoutmaster or a Guymaster?

Yes, it's hard to break old easy habits, but I think it's worth the effort. Who are these young humans before us? Ordinary Young Humans? or...

I don't want my son to be a 'guy' . I want my son to be a "Scout".

Buddies... Buddie up at a given signal (bugle, whistle, bell) and count noses... out of bounds defined... Before the noise and commotion, have a night life "listen" and "look" ( owls? nightingales? beady eyes in the flashlight?) later, as a break, weather permitting, present the Astronomy MB for a possibilty. Anyone have a good telescope ? Even binoculars can show the Orion Nebula and Lunar craters. Respect those that have had enough and want to go to sleep. Or anyone with dakness concerns, this should be VOLUNTARY, yes? Private area (private farm back acres, Scout reserve area,).

I did a "TRUST WALK" to good effect: Scout out the route in the day time, look for safety of walking, but variety of surface.. Get a sufficiently long rope and tie knots in it every 2 or 3 feet. Tell the participants that they will be tested by this activity. Rules: 1)No Talking except in dire emergency 2) everyone is blindfolded and put on the rope as they leave the start.HOLD ON TO THE ROPE. Space them out so they won't bump or trip each other, left and right side. 3)Leader pulls the rope along at an easy pace, everyone follows, led by the rope.. 4) good to have some "out riders" to help with traffic control. 5) Leader announces if there are curbs, steps, posts to navigate, but no more. 6) Participants soon get the feel of the rope as it starts, stops, flexes up and down. 7) Stop every so often as appropriate and let the group FEEL and SMELL and HEAR. 8) Better if the exercise can be done in a pretty dark area. I was able to lead one group thru a college campus to the horse paddock and dark meadow. We ended in a circle, in the middle of a dark meadow, away from the lights. Told everyone to "Drop the rope" some hesitated. Ask them to listen and smell? then take off blindfolds and remind them this is the sky their GGGGGGrand parents saw. OOOOOO....Take an Hour? YiS SSScout

""By their fruits ye shall know them""

"The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious, and devout souls are everywhere of one religion; and when death has taken off the mask they will know one another, though the diverse liveries they wear here make them strangers."

= William Penn =

'nuf said.

But we digress.....

I finally found it....From B-P...

""Reverence to God and reverence for one's neighbour and reverence for

oneself as a servant of God, is the basis of every

form of religion. The method of expression of reverence to God varies

with every sect and denomination. What sect or

denomination a boy belongs to depends, as a rule, on his parents'

wishes. It is they who decide. It is our business to respect

their wishes and to second their efforts to inculcate reverence,

whatever form of religion the boy professes.

There may be many difficulties relating to the definition of the

religious training in our Movement where so many different

denominations exist, and the details of the expression of duty to God

have, therefore, to be left largely in the hands of the

local authority. But there is no difficulty at all in

suggesting the line to take on the human side, since direct duty to

one's neighbour is implied in almost every form of belief.""

(Aids to Scoutmastership, 1919)

AND....

RE: Flag possible misuse/disrespect/unusual purpose/smiler/what if/ wait a minute...

I recommend the movie ""BRONCO BILLY"" Dir/Stars Clint Eastwood. In an interview, he said it was one of his favorites. Be warned, some adult themes, perhaps a PG13 rate.

Any one else remember it?

Coming in to this late, perhaps, but after being a girls soccer coach ( 1st season no wins, second season half and half, third season league champs undeafeated, fourth season 2nd place) and a DL and CM, and now ASM, I see some parrallels between good coaching and good Scout leadering. In both,if done right, the coach /SL requires something of the child that the child feels OBLIGATED to provide. If the parents see a benefit of the child attending, there will be a DOUBLE obligation that the child feels. Can he/she dissapoint the C/SL? In CS, we require parent participation, less so in BS, but obviously if the parent participates, the boy gains accordingly. How often have we (CSL or SL) seen what I call the "soccer syndrome" ? Drop the boy off and come back in 2 hours. Even SLs can use that to advantage, but it means making yourself indispensible to the Pack/Troop, and that can have poor consequences too, especially if one has not succeeded in training/providing for your successors. When one moves on, is there someone left to continue the Pack/Troop?

A good S/L inspires and leads by example and training, but remember, "a boy does not live by training alone". I still think that learning to run and kick straight is great, but somehow one has to show the Scouts that SOMETIME it might be nice to know how to find your way in the woods, or in a strange city, or know how to stop bleeding or breath for someone who can't. Your average soccer coach won't teach you that. Or reward you for knowing it.

EVERYTHING should have some ritual, some ceremony attached to it.

After the "battlesribbons" got to be a little cumbersome, we got some tri-fold presentation boards and glued all the streamers to them, chronologically, for display at B&G, etc. The most recent ribbons were on the Pack flag.

When we received a new ribbon, the CM would announce the new ribbon,(usually after rank awards), how the Pack had earned it, and then ask one Cub to come forward (most advanced, most deserving, soon to move, pick a reason) and hold the Pack flag pole down, then call another Cub forward ( same criterion)to tie the ribbon to the pole. Much pride exhibited. Make sure to rotate this "honor" thru the Pack. YiS, SSScout

Lion Cub= 1959. Back before I earned my dinosaur herding merit badge, I was a Cub, and my mom was a Denmom, and my dad cut up scrape lumber and sheets of cork and set out little pots of paint for lots of Thunderbird trophy hangings and key holders and I learned the importance of washing out your brushes NOW not tomorrow (no latex!). I think the idea of a Kkid Cub scout program is great ( I hope National reads these screeds).

1) insist that parents accompany Ks and 1st graders. No Baby sitters etc. I could not believe when one year we had 14 nascent Tigers one year and NOT ONE family would join. Everyone of them pleaded "too much time involved". I call this the "soccer syndrome"... drop your boy off and come back in 2 hours. We asked for one meeting and one activity a month, all pre planned and pre scheduled. Couldn't do it...

2) Don't call it Lions (what is LfL? never heard of it) Call it another animal, smaller, craftier....FOX Scouts! Leave Lion for another time. Here's your sequence... Fox...Tiger...Bobcat... Wolf...Bear... and What the hey is a ..a .. Webelos?? The sequence is only a little out of logical ordernow... Putting a LION first is not apparently logical to me.

3) Gotta make things. Hand eye. Dodads for mom to hang in the kitchen, dad to put on his desk and make big over.

4) Make awards for the PARENTS. They can earn a patch or pin for getting the boy to the meeting, helping with the paint and glue. Kkids are FOXES, mom and dad are er, whats a male fox called?

Possibilities???

Six looooong pages and how much is actually about "BSA and Religion? And the 'other' topic? Who (or what) are you fellows worshiping? Yes, I think the 'other ' topic should have spun off loooong ago.

Unbelievable. What Scout (age not important) would EVER turn another Scout away from his camp? Scouter4321 has it all.

As CM, I knew our pack had the responsibilty for the C/O ceremony. We always made sure our Webs had invites to visit our neighboring troops (5 or 6), since we had no "connected" troop. No uninformed choices. We would do it at a barbecue in the spring. Our District OA group always made a bang up appearance with flaming arrows and appropriate words as the Cubs crossed the bridge. Not unusual to have 2 or 3 SMs to receive the Cubs. I would remove the blue epaulets and the SM would replace them with red ones as the boy crossed the bridge. Once the SM forgot the red epaulets! We borrowed some from the UC and the OA group! As Bob the Tomato says, "It's for the kids".

How long ago was the slight that required THAT SM to not be allowed in THIS SMs camp?

"The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious, and devout souls are everywhere of one religion; and when death has taken off the mask they will know one another, though the diverse liveries they wear here make them strangers."

= William Penn =

I do love catching up on all this discussion. Jargon and linquistics fascinates me.

wyomingi: "Gaffer Tape" : Gaffer is , if I remember correctly, Cockney slang for an Old Man. This led it to be the theatrical term for the fellow who is in charge of Lighting the Stage ( use to be with candles ane kerosene lamps) . The "Gaffer" is now the fellow in charge of the Lighting and electrical arrangements. "Gaffer Tape" is the stuff used to secure the e cables to the floor (so one doesn't trip over them) and the e cables to the battens (pipes) that hold the "babies" and "fresnels" and "ellipsoids" and such (spotlights). To canoeists, it's Duck Tape. To HVAC mechanics it's Duct Tape. To Red Green it's essential. FYI: "Best Boy" is the "Gaffers" assistant. TT4N.

Teach your Scout to Sew... " BADGES? WE DON' NEED NO STEENKIN' BADGES!!"

" Teach.. your Scout to sew... your Daddy's patch... will never fall off...

and see ... him stick his thumb.. he's not so dumb... he'll beg

his motheeeer... and...

don't you stop to ask him why... he'll just look at her and cry..

til she gives in and sews it oooon and he'll tell her "Mooooooom, you

know I love you!! " ( apologies to CSN&Y)

(personal experience) The aerosol can works , but not permanent. On the BACK of the patch, shoot a small bead around the edge of the patch, just inside the edge. With putty knife, smear it around til you have a thin even coating. On a table, QUICKLY place the patch BACK DOWN in place on the uniform, and place wax paper over it. Stack some heavy books on top and leave it over night.Next morning, carefully peel off the wax paper. Artfully done, no smear out the edges of the patch. It will eventually fall off, depending on how strong your laundry detergent (lasts longer if you never wash it!) Will NOT stick to nylon jackets. Plastic backing allows patch to be peeled off cloth. Soak Back of cloth with wd40 to remove most of stickum, but some stain will remain, no matter what.

The sheet material is more permanent. I used it for my new uniforms when I had to get ready for Jamboree. Follow the package directions AND::: place a white handkerchief over the patch and iron (wool setting 30 secs.)Avoid getting it on the iron at all costs. DO NOT DRY CLEAN. everything desolves and patches come off. You can touch it up with another litte piece of stickum, should the patch start to peel off.

I would never use either for the wool leader jacket, but the patches on the Cub Scout poly felt vest have not come off (aerosol can stuff.)

WOW! Really interesting replies to a small inquery. I leave a note on the board in the morning and come back and...And I had no idea there were so many retired (I know I have a money exchange activity to attend to) scout type people out there.

Scenario: (this is fourth hand to you folks) Cub Scout from family who espouses a religion that will not say the PoA loyally (and I say correctly) does not recite the PoA, as his parents desire. He does know it, can correctly recite it (per the rank requirement) and participates in flag ceremonies (carries it in, posts the colors, etc. But CM has conniption fit. He is ex-military. How should Pcomm or other parents react?

Glue On Patches . Thoughts as they occur to me...

An adult Leader leads by: Example: Properly attired. Correct Badges in place, uniform clean and worn without embarassment (even into the Mcdonalds on the trip). Do all the ASMs wear Scout uniform? Only the SM? How 'bout the CC? Anyone else?

Encouragement: Take the Scout aside and remind him kindly and without rancor of his badge placement and uniform usage. Is there a problem you can help with?

Guilt: Perhaps a SM minute could be used to ask about the pride of being a Scout. How to honor those that have trod the trail before us. What happens when we wear it "in public"?

Instruction: Unit Commissioner (used to be called Neighborhood Commissioner?) comes thru and gives a Uniform Inspection, with appropriate reward for the best Patrols (advance notice given, natch) and appropriate comment about good and poor appearance.

Hand Sewing: The practice of making the patches with the plastic back makes'em much harder to sew on. The needles don't go thru the plastic easily. The lack of uniform coloring makes it hard to find matching color thread. (MBs use to be rimmed all in green. Howmany different hues now?.)

The "Badge Magic" works for a while, but falls off all by itself eventually. Don't dry clean!!!

I would never use the "BM" on the wool leader jacket.

Teach your Scout to Sew... " BADGES? WE DON' NEED NO STEENKIN' BADGES!!"

" Teach.. your Scout to sew... your Daddy's patch... will never fall off...

and see ... him stick his thumb.. he's not so dumb... he'll beg

his motheeeer... and...

don't you stop to ask him why... he'll just look at her and cry..

til she gives in and sews it oooon and he'll tell her "Mooooooom, you

know I love you!! " ( apologies to CSN&Y)

It is good to make'm think. I'm only a fledgling ASM, but as a CM, the circle up goodnight was new to my pack. The previous CMs only marched the flags out and said goodnight. I marched the flags out, then gathered the boys in the hands-over circle and spoke of the Scout family. Then I invited anyone else who was a Scout or had been a Scout to join in the circle. The family gets bigger! Then I reminded everyone that family includes moms and dads and bro and sis , and invited everyone else to join the circle (hands over hands is HARD for some adults!). More reminding about the family that is Scouting, and perhaps how family helps each other, picks each other up when someone falls. Then ,if the time feels right, a short pithy something, then the SM benediction(...til we meet again) and SQUEEZE hands goodnight...

MORALITY is what one does when one is with others.

CHARACTER is what one does when alone...

YiS...

Flag burning is , I seem to hear , either a very extreme form of protest or an extreme form of respect, depending on the context. And context is always an important consideration in making a judgement.

Question: What sort of person (that is to say, why) would not recite the "Pledge of Allegiance" during the usual flag ceremony? And how would you react to such?