SR540Beaver

BSA is sponsoring an Indy car. Thoughts? By utilizing the excitement and high-tech nature of Indy-style racing cars as a platform to promote science, technology, and math to those involved in Scouting, this multiyear program will be foundational to reaching Americas youths in 2010. Through this exposure, our goal is to increase youth interest in the concepts of engineering and math in ways that are fun and relevant to them. The Boy Scouts of Americas No. 19 IndyCar entry will compete in the 17-race 2010 IZOD IndyCar Series schedule. Local Boy Scout members and volunteers will participate in exciting activities at the track and have other unique opportunities at all races. The team will appear at Scouting events, including the 2010 National Scout Jamboree. http://www.ptcmedia.net/files/BSA_Motorsports.pdf http://www.scouting.org/motorsports.aspx

BP, It wans't criticism. It was a personal observation and opinion. I agree with what you said. Now if councils would just quit hiring DE's straight out of college with no scouting experience.

BP, Leadership should come from the top down. We lead by example. The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. Yes you want a person with business acumen.......but what is the point if you have someone at the top who doesn't support or believe or participate i nthe program?

Eagle92, I feel your pain on the camp name change. We are going thru it....kind of. Our council's oldest property has ben around since the early 1930's. We had a gentleman make a sizable.....and I do mean sizable donation to finish up our 10 million capital campaign. He asked for nothing in return. However, the board of directors (non-scouters) thought it would be a nice gesture to rename the camp after his family name without polling the volunteer base. It of course went over like a fart in church. As a result, the camp is inded renamed......but the formal announcement that had been planned never happened, the sign at the camp and any reference to the property on the council website still bears the old camp name. But if you ask anyone at the council, they will tell you that the name has changed. I think the plan is to let the new name creep into existence. Why do the folks on the business end of the council seem to not understand how much decisions like this hurt their cause rather than help it. They could have just as easily taken the gift and built some much needed infrastructure at the camp and named it for the man and made everyone happy.

BP, As far as Issue 1 goes, Terry owns the forum and "hires" the mods. It is his choice whether to come up with a standard and uniform set of rules for them to moderate by or to trust the judgement of the people he carelfully selected. As to the hair trigger thing, I've been here since 2002 and I've just never seen it. I for one appreciate their hands off approach....even when I think they have let some folks go to far and should have taken some form of action.

eagle92, What was your SE's name again?

resqman, I remember those days. We wore our uniforms to school because our Den meetings were immediately after school. My Wolf Den Mother was Mrs. Huddleston and their house was just two houses down from the school grounds. My Bear Den Mother was Mrs. Phillips about 5 blocks from school. I lost a shoe cutting thru someone's vegetable garden to get to Mrs. Phillip's house once. I didn't realize how muddy it was and sank halfway to my knee and the suction pulled my shoe right off my foot.

Our SE is moving on to become the SE of Dan Beard Council in Ohio as of January 1st. A good friend of mine who serves on a number of committees at the council level has input into the search for our new SE. This person posed the question to me and a few other friends of, "what would you like to see in our new SE?" So, I pose the question to all my fellow Scouters here. If your council were searching for a new SE and you were asked to throw in your two cents, what would you want?

How long has it been considered nerdy/geeky. Well, I graduated from high school in 1975 and had many Boy Scout friends......who were all considered nerdy/geeky by the majority of their peers. Those friends....like my son today, could care less. Yes, we have a number of boys who come to the troop meeting in full uniform and attempt to wear a hoodie even in August to hide it. We have others who could care less what others think and wear it almost out of defiance to their peers to show they won't give into the pressure. Our guys who have participated in our annual high adventure, active in OA, staff summer camp, staff NYLT, etc. actually prefer to wear the old school knee socks to add insult to injury for those who want to make fun of them. Now THAT's the spirit!

fscouter, You are indeed correct that some think any form of moderation is censorship. IMHO, occasionally someone acts unscoutlike enough that they deserve to be censored. We all need to keep in mind that this is NOT the public square where our freedom of speech is protected. It is a public internet forum owned and operated by someone kind enough to provide it free of charge who has entrusted certain individuals with moderator powers to "moderate" the forum. If one wishes to not be moderated/censored, one should not act in such a way that would require said action. You know....that whole oath and law concept thingamajig we like to talk about from time to time.

Happy Festivus to the rest of us!

Here is an interesting tidbit of trivia. One of my son's best friends is the nephew of AT&T Chair and CEO, Randall Stephenson who is the BSA 100th Anniversary Chair. Way back in February 2004 when my son crossed over to Boy Scouts, he recruited his buddy and earned the Recruiter strip he wears on his shirt. His buddy quit Scouts after summer camp. Also, my older brother works for AT&T and was Stephenson's boss some 25 years ago. He would give him a ride home to the trailer house he lived in. Now the guy is a millionare and my brother works for him. Small world.

acco, Priorities matter. There is a difference between a PL missing a campout because he is taking his SAT and the PL who chooses to play video gams instead of lead his patrol. At least there is to me.

scoutldr, I'm going to differ here with you a little due to my perspective changing over the years. My son crossed over a week or so before his 11th birthday. His 17th birthday is quickly approaching. Those six years have changed my perspective as my son has grown. If I were to cut anyone slack, it would be the older guys more so than the younger guys. My son is now a JASM and only has his Eagle project to do. He has a truck, a girlfriend and a job. His time is much more limited NOW than it was when he was 11, 12, 13, 14 or even 15. It was during that time when he had fewer outside interests and wasn't mobile. It was during that time that he was an APL, PL, ASPL, SPL and TG. It was during that time that he went to Jamboree, Northern Tier, Philmont, staffed NYLT, staffed summer camp and co-ran the troop TLT. He took from the troop and he has/is giving back as his work schedule allows. While he is still involved in the troop, he is also giving back to scouting at another level by being youth chair of the district Cub Winter Day and serving as Vice Lodge Chief. The SM cuts him slack because of everything he knows he has done and is still doing. If he can't be there every meeting or campout, the SM doesn't sweat it. He will take his experience and influence when he can get it. The "active" expectation of the new scout coming up thru the ranks is a little higher than the old salts. They have the "freedom" to be there every time the doors are opened when they are younger as opposed to when they are older. The SM who doesn't allow for that will more than likely lose the older boy rather than retain him.

Kind of like the subjective Scout Spirit, active should be based on the stated expectations of a given SM.

twocub, I wouldn't use the "public" caches from the internet for a scout activity. I'd do it at one of your council camps if I were you. There are multi-caches where you are given the coordinates to the first cache. When you get there, the cache contains the cooordinates to the next cache. You can do this for as many segments as you choose. Part of the fun of geocaching is finding the cache once you arrive at your destination. It can be something as small as a pill bottle wrapped in camo duct tape and can be hidden anywhere from ground level to above your head. One of the hardest I ever found was a cache on a stirng with a paperclip hook hanging inside an open metal fencepost. Another fun thing to do is hide the various ingredients for that evenings dinner and the patrol has to find all the caches and collect the ingredients in order to cook dinner.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Go to www.geocaching.com for anything and everything you want to know. We've never incorporated it into our program in part due to cost. A basic compass is a lot cheaper that a GPS unit. It has been a while since I've done any geocaching and I only have one cache still hidden. Don't let it fool you, it can be difficult. Just because you have coordinates to a location doesn't make getting to the location easy.

Given my choice, I'd be a fair weather camper. I prefer the Spring and Fall with temps in the 50's at night. That being said, I particpated in the 2005 Jamboree death march with heat indexes in excess of 110 and camped in below zero temps in Kansas in January. This past weekend was the very first campout I've ever opted out of since 2002 simply because I didn't want to deal with the cold.....and I didn't even feel guilty about it. Well, maybe a little, but not much.

Buy quality and care for them properly. We are a 45 year old troop with 60 boys on the roster. Our tents have been troop supplied since at least 1983. How do I know that? Because we just bought some new tents to put into service and took a number of 1983 tents out of service. We always mark the tent body and rain fly with a magic marker with the year it went into service. That's right, we were using 26 year old tents. How? We took care of them, stored them properly and serviced them as needed. We use the Eureka Timberline Outfitter tents. When a tent goes out of service, we throw away the tent and fly and retain the poles and hardware in our tent repair box. We pretty much do the same thing as Eagle732 on assigning marked tents by patrol. We use colored zip ties on tent bags, tents and flys and a matching tape on poles. Patrols use "their" tents in their own patrol area and we don't combine patrols or patrol equipment.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

JerseyScout - "I keep trying to give him ways that he can funnel what he wants to do to make it a "boy led" way (for example, he wants to show the kids how to cook something different for dinner because dinner is getting boring on trips. I suggested that, instead, he tell the patrols that whoever cooks the best dinner next trip will have the adults will do their KP, with bonus points given for trying something new), but I'm mostly running into walls. We aren't operating on the same wavelength, because we haven't been exposed to the same stuff." Try this. When the boys settle into a rut, give them a "requirement" that they have to try a recipe they've never cooked before. Or that Saturday breakfast or dinner for all patrols is a Dutch Oven dinner. Or that they have to try a cooking method they've never used. Even with a "requirement" thrown in, it is still boy led from the aspect that they have to come up with a menu, ingredients and method. This satisfies the adults who want to interfere, yet keeps it boy led too. I always come down on the side of boy led......with the realization that it sometimes needs to be tempered with a minimum of adult direction to keep things reasonable and on track. An example is from a troop I used to serve. The boys started getting lazy and would do ramen noodles for lunch. Then it became lunch and dinner. Then it became every meal. Then boiling water became too much trouble and they ate the noodles dry out of the package. That is "boy led" taken too far. The word came down from on high that the boys were setting a bad example for the younger scouts and ramen noodles would only be allowed occasionally with SM approval. They needed to start employing the skills they had learned and pass them on. I realize you don't have this problem. But to "appease" the grumblers, throw a challenge at the boys from time to time to change things up and expand their horizons. It keeps the adults happy and gives the boys an opportunity to spread their boy led wings.

I agree with scoutldr. You've already spelled out the issue you have with him in your original post. A SMC doesn't have to be requested by the Scout, you as SM can request it. Tell him you know he is approaching his next rank advancement and as things stand right now, you would not be able to sign off on Scout Spirit when that time came. Then repeat some form of what you've said here and give it to him in writing. Before you tell him what is acceptable to you to make amends, get his take on his behavior issues and ask what steps he would take to make amends.

I was watching Pastor Rick Warren (The Purpose Driven Life) on Meet the Press yesterday. The discussion turned to tithing and "giving". He says we can give money and we can give time. Of the two, time is the most valuable. You can always make more money, but once time is given, you can't make more of it. Giving time is personal and more of a sacrifice. I've commented before that I do not give to FOS. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here, but the main reason is because of the amount of time I give. I was a Pack Committee Chair. I'm an ASM in a large troop for 6 years now. I Campmaster. I staff our Cub Scout Fall Family Adventures camping program. I'm serving for a second time as a Jamboree ASM. I'm serving on my third Wood Badge course. I've staffed IOLS/WELOT. I'm the incoming OA Chapter Adviser. I pay for the privelege to do most of these things. I feel no guilt when I don't fill out the FOS pledge card and I don't plan on leaving anything to the council or national when I'm gone. They got someting much more valuable......of course, I enjoy the heck out of it.

BadenP's post reminded me that all of those awards and patches that the uniform minimalists poo-poo do indeed come in handy at some point in life....or death.

From my council's Wood Badge website, www.lfcwoodbadge.org. Why Should I Go? Have you ever been on a trip that you didn't know where you were going? How did you know when you got there? How can you teach the youth in your unit if you don't know the skills yourself? Wood Badge is Scouting's premier training course for adult leaders. It provides participants with practical tools to fulfill the aims and methods of the Scouting program. The quality of the scouting experience for Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, and Venturers depends on the skills, knowledge, and commitment of those adult leaders who have given their time and energy to the Scouting movement. Wood Badge offers a six day immersion in the theory, practice, and experience of effective skills for leading others within Scouting and in many environments beyond the BSA. Like many intense training experiences, it guides participants through learning activities where they work together, organize, and develop an enthusiasm and team spirit to accomplish the tasks and challenges placed before them. Participants who attend Wood Badge will: Acquire a global view of Scouting as a family of interrelated values-based programs providing age-appropriate activities for youth. Become familiar with contemporary team leadership concepts. Experience the stages of team development and practice leadership approaches for those stages. Have a great deal of fun in the company of like minded individuals. Develop a renewed commitment to provide Scouting with the best possible leadership. What Will I Learn? Leadership skills and how to apply them, in Scouting and everywhere else in your life. The course covers team building, listening and communicating, project management, how to manage change, conflict management and resolution, coaching and mentoring, and evaluating. In addition to classroom instruction, there are a variety of fun projects and games that will allow you to practice the skills you will be learning. Finally, Wood Badge is the embodiment of Scouting spirit. Carried out in context of Scouting ideals and service to young people, the course brings out a deep dedication and spirit of brotherhood and fellowship in most participants. Associations and friendships made during the course often last a lifetime.

It's a committee and BOR issue.