shortridge

I guess it's about time that I see this movie, huh?

Welcome, and best of luck!

A lot of state parks and other camping locations these days use online reservations. A few clicks, and you can tell instantly if sites are available for a particular weekend. When your PLC maps out the yearly program calendar, have a computer nearby to check availability. If the campsite isn't taking reservations that far in advance, find out when they open up, and put that on the calendar for the PLC to take care of first thing. That way, there's none of this waiting-too-late stuff.

Actually, the "answering machine message" is fake. (See http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/palisades.asp.) But I think we have all encountered parents like that. The question is, how do we help them realize that being involved in their child's life is the best thing they can ever do for them?

"Who develops the Patrol Leader in a troop without an SPL?" What does that mean, "develops"? And what's wrong with an independent PL who learns by doing?

For a much simpler alternative, use wooden clothespins, the spring-loaded kind. Plain ones are for nonswimmers, and add a dab of red and blue for beginners and swimmers to match your camp's style. Names can be written in marker on the back, and they can clip on to whatever buddy board system you use - a wooden board, a hanging rope, etc.

Personally speaking ... Learned the art of knots from a U.S. Coast Guard commander Swam a mile Cycled 50 miles Organized and led large-scale group events for 150+ people (OA service projects, summer camp games and outings) Discovered that I like teaching and public speaking Learned first-aid skills that come in handy on a daily basis 20 years later(This message has been edited by shortridge)

I can understand your frustration, but everything on the Jambo website clearly says that it doesn't open to visitors until 9 a.m. And if you think about it, before 9 a.m., what's going on? The Jambo "residents" are getting ready in their "home" - showering, getting dressed, eating breakfast. No program is happening. Would you want people traipsing through your house while you were getting ready for work? At an event with thousands upon thousands of people, there's going to be waiting. All we can do is take a deep breath and grin.

In the thread on removing an SPL, one of the points brought up was that a troop doesn't NEED a Senior Patrol Leader. I find myself tending to agree with that point of view, for several reasons, and was curious about others' thoughts. First, with most troops (in my experience) having between 2-4 patrols, there really isn't that much to for an SPL to coordinate. A larger troop with 7-8 patrols might find such a position of greater utility. Secondly, creating the SPL job generally reduces the importance of the Patrol Leader's position, and makes him not the most important leader in the troop. If key decisions are being made by the SPL and not the PLC, then the patrols immediately lose their importance as well. Troop-level positions, except in large troops where their job is really to coordinate, generally tend to detract from the Patrol Method. Third, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Even in a larger troop, the SPL's role can easily be filled by the PLC by way of group decisions. The "figurehead roles" can be rotated (attending SPL meetings at summer camp, calling commands at flag ceremonies, etc.). Thoughts?

If you prefer to take a softer approach, sit down with this young man before your next troop meeting. Ask him point-blank if he thinks he can hold the respect of the troop and his patrol leaders after his behavior at summer camp. Ask him if he would accept such behavior from one of the PLs or another Scout. He'll soon come around to realize that he can't do the job anymore.

Beavah, I don't think John or anyone else has said that correcting problems with the camp program rests solely on the shoulders of the SM or other unit leaders. What he has said, and which I wholeheartedly agree with, is that the SM does have the responsibility to point out problems when he or she spots them. A good SM will get around to more program areas and see more things than will the CD or PD in an average week. Hate to say it, but it's true. That gives them a unique perspective, and a valuable one. "Besides, can yeh imagine how disruptive it would be if every SM followed da advice here and interrupted the young MB instructors every time they got something wrong? That approach just ain't courteous." First of all, there shouldn't be any "young MB instructors." Youth 17 and under can assist with instruction, but shouldn't be the primary teachers or counselors. That's the promise National (and every council) makes to the COs. So the SM should be able to talk adult-to-adult with the qualified MBC. Secondly, even if you do attend a camp with underage MB instructors, it's simple enough to have a chat with the PD or CD or commissioner or area director, all of whom should be above 18. Certainly, butt in when there's a safety issue. Otherwise, you can wait until after class to bring up your question or concern. ... as folks have pointed out, camp staffs are young, there are lots of kids to keep track of, and lots of pressure from campers, weaker unit leaders, and parents to "cave." A badly issued MB report might result from anything from a paperwork error to three different fellows named "John" that the counselor didn't keep track of. I'm sure it's not what you intended, but to me, this sounds like making excuses for a shoddy program. There are basic fixes for each of the items you list. If the camp staff is too young, hire older staffers. If there are too many kids, restrict the size of the class to a more manageable level. If there's pressure, ignore it and hold to your standards. If the staffer didn't keep track of things, he can be counseled to improve his recordkeeping. Some might say it's impractical to do those things. I say it's delivering the promise. Don't take my money, offer a slipshod program and tell me it's the best you can do. That's the same as peeing on my leg and telling me it's raining. If you don't have the resources or staff to do the program properly, then don't do the program. No matter what da reason, when the camp hasn't held up its end, the Scoutmaster is expected to step up to the plate and do what's right for the boy and the program. And "what's right" should involve giving feedback. Without that step, the camp may very well continue on the same old path, assuming everything's fine because no one complained. Then it continues next year. And the year after that. And then it becomes the acceptable standard, "because that's the way we've always done it." And more and more Scouts suffer from a lousy program. The gift of feedback takes a few minutes at most. It's hardly a huge burden. Don't get me wrong. I've worked at summer camp. I've been one of those underage MBCs who illegally signed off on blue cards. I've taught some crappy classes - I shudder to recall the Basketry and Indian Lore classes I ran as a 14-year-old CIT. (And I also received the gift of feedback.) I know first-hand the limited resources that camps have to work with. But that's not an excuse for not offering the program that was promised.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

There's nothing at present preventing a unit or CO from designating a chaplain. An organized chaplaincy like mds3d and others propose is basically the role that a council or district relationships committee is supposed to play. I don't see how creating a separate position would really add or enhance anything. Units should have chaplains, if the unit and CO desires. But district and council chaplains? No need. If the chaplains from the 10 troops gathered at the district camporee can't get together and, in the spirit of Scouting, organize services to meet the needs of their Scouts, they're not very good unit chaplains. One of my concerns about designating district or council chaplains is that the chaplain's role is to serve the unit. Creating a hierarchy and organization outside of the unit tends to detract from that. I can just imagine some puffed-up pompous "District Chaplain" striding around at a camporee decreeing the correct way to say grace. Our goal should be to support the Scouts' families. After all, "the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. (Entirely tongue-in-cheek: This thread did get me thinking. To oversee the other elements of the Scout Law, we also clearly need a Cheerfulness Corps, composed of clowns, mimes and jugglers. A Loyalty Corps would require oaths to Irving to be sworn in blood [or at least red crayon]. The Thrifty Corps should launch a savings-and-loan for Scouts and leaders. And the Clean Corps will be composed of white-glove experts who check behind each Scout's ears to make sure he's washed properly.)

Absolutely. Remove him from the SPL position. The ASPL then takes over. Then, leadership position aside, sit down with the boy and his parents and have it out. That type of behavior is clearly unacceptable. What was your response immediately following the outburst? Did you pull him aside and talk to him? What did he say?

Don't do anything. Let your son deal with this when he returns. He is a Life Scout, mature enough to attend Jamboree and staff Cub camp. He can handle this.

So the news is out that President Obama will not be speaking in person at the Jamboree, but instead appearing in a pre-taped message. That should assauge some of the security concerns. And before this thread gets flooded with "Obama hates Scouts" comments ... Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon never spoke at Jambo, either. (Neither did Ford, but that wasn't his fault. The '73 and '77 events bracketed his partial term.) Source: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/69988

NJCubScouter, Hmm - not sure why the link to the cached version of the BSA's training syllabus for interfaith worship services has gone bad, but here's how to find it. Go to google.com and search for "scouting.org interfaith worship." The cache at the second link is what you need. Not sure why National took the syllabus down to begin with.

Gary, It doesn't matter if it's practical or not. Them's the rules! Direct from National: "The same qualifications and rules for merit badge counselors apply to council summer camp merit badge programs. All merit badge counselors must be at least 18 years of age. Camp staff members under age 18 may assist with instruction but cannot serve in the role of the merit badge counselor." If the rules are impractical, then why do they exist? If your council isn't following the rules and delivering adult association as part of its camp merit badge program, then your COR needs to be asking some very hard questions why. For too long, councils have been allowed to quietly skate by and skirt the rules, paying 15- and 16-year-olds to do the job of 18-year-olds. Why do we let them? If the people who make up the "horror BORs" for Eagle that we hear about so much on these forums would spend a tenth of their time studying and critiquing their summer camp programs as they do grilling prospective Eagle candidates, I daresay the quality of the program would increase tenfold. ========= desertrat wrote: "If I read your post right, the SM is the only person in this equation that is supposed to have the backbone to tell all these folks how the cow eats the cabbage? Aside from the parents, what responsibility does the council president, etc., have? Some of these folks, like the council present and camp management, are paid. And you suggest that a volunteer SM has to follow up after them, to remind them to do the most basic elements of their jobs?" Not to put words in John's mouth, but IMHO, it certainly is the SM's responsibility to inform his or her COR that the council is not delivering on its program promises. It's then the COR's job to complain to the council hierarchy. That's the way the chain of command works. As the person on the spot during summer camp, it's also the SM's responsibility to speak up to the camp management and staff when he or she sees somethign out of whack. It's entirely possible that the camp director and program director don't know that things are being done shabbily, if the area director doesn't tell them. The camp leadership sends its senior staff to NCS, trains them, approves lesson plans, etc., but can't be on the spot for every second of every program. Believe it or not, during a busy week of camp, the average SM gets around camp more than the average CD or PD! They're busy dealing with vendors, ordering equipment, putting out fires, filling in for sick staffers, etc. If you see something wrong, you absolutely have a responsibility to make a note of that and let the appropriate people know. My interpretation of John's post was that the SM needs to communicate the situation and explain what happened. To the parents, the SM should explain why he chose to pull their sons from a sub-par program offering. To the unit commissioner, the SM should explain exactly what the problems were and ask him or her to communicate those concerns to the district and thus to the council. If an SM doesn't have time to talk with the COR, parents and the unit commissioner, then he or she doesn't really have time to be a good SM. Besides, when was the last time you saw your council president (which I don't believe is a paid position) at summer camp?(This message has been edited by shortridge)

While program, program, program is indeed crucial, marketing and image is also critical. A visible troop is going to get more members than a stealth troop. That means marching in parades, doing regular service projects, serving as color guard for Little League opening day ceremonies, volunteering to lead tours at the local nature center, putting on public Scout skills demonstrations in the town park (signaling, fire by friction, monkey bridge, survival shelters, just to name a few things with a built-in cool factor), running a younger kids' free fishing derby... etc. And then, the most important thing from a marketing perspective - taking photos, writing up a press release and sending it to your local newspapers. Or better yet, inviting your local newspapers or TV station to cover it as a feature story. That gets the word out to a MUCH wider audience. In this day and age, a troop website is a must. It doesn't cost much (free, in some cases) to put up a few pages with photos, a listing of events and contact information. Read up on search engine optimization techniques and make sure your site is the first one that pops up when someone searches for "boy scouts smithtown rhode island." Make it as easy as possible for a parent or interested boy to find you.

"Not practical. There seems to be a tendency for the youth councilors to wrap up their MBs on Weds. or Thurs. so they can have the rest of the week free. By then it's too late for Scouts to start another MB." Here's another topic worthy of a frank conversation with your council staff and camp staff, then. No. 1, there should be no youth counselors. Youth staff under 18 may assist with instruction, but a qualified 18-year-old (minimum) should always be signing off on each Scout, individually. No. 2, the camp staff is there to serve your unit. Program should be planned out to take maximum advantage of the time available. Now, if you only have two or three Scouts taking Wilderness Survival, it would be possible to finish up in a few days. And a Scout can certainly complete Basketry in a single day. But if the camp staff is rushing through badges as a matter of course so they can have a free period to goof off, that's a huge problem.

Just an idea ... are CSP prices set by the councils, not national? That certainly could explain the wide variance.

I definitely agree with John on his recommendation for emphasizing aquatics activities in the coming year. The best thing you can do is to support your Scouts - all your Scouts, not just these six - and get them out on and in the water as much as possible. You also should remember that you are the gatekeeper for the other MBs as well. If one of these Scouts comes to you next year and says "I want to take SCUBA at camp," and you haven't seen him do any swimming in the year since, I think you'd be within your rights to ask the Scout to re-do a swim test to make sure he can handle the level of ability that SCUBA requires. As far as the clothes inflation goes, it took me quite a few times to get it right as a scrawny Tenderfoot my first year at camp. (I also thought it was a little silly from a practical perspective - when I'm out on a boat, I'm usually in swim trunks and a t-shirt, not slacks and a button-up dress shirt. Maybe I need to go on more fancy-dress cruises or something.) But I later went on to do Lifesaving, Canoeing, Small-Boat Sailing and the Mile Swim. So the Scout whose strokes were ragged this summer may, with some strong encouragement and plenty of opportunities, just become your next BSA Lifeguard in a few years' time. I understand not wanting to interrupt a lesson, but it's your right and responsibility as your unit's chief program officer if you see something not being done safely or up to snuff. If nothing else, a word with the aquatics director or pool supervisor immediately after would have probably done the trick. As a side note, having worked on camp staff for five years, I was always amazed by the small but consistent number of Scoutmasters who would hold on to their complaints or concerns during the week and then raise a stink in their post-camp evaluations. The commissioner who visits your campsite every day - and I did that for several years, in addition to teaching Scoutcraft classes and leading special programs - isn't just there to check for litter, a clean latrine and properly rolled tent flaps. He's there to hear those concerns and be your direct channel to the program and camp directors. If a SM spends five days saying "Hey, everything's peachy," he or she doesn't have much of a right to complain afterwards. Even if this was something observed in the last session on the last full day of camp, that still leaves time for the SM to talk with the appropriate folks and ask that the pool be re-opened before Saturday breakfast for a re-do to make sure your Scouts have been properly instructed and tested.

This should hopefully wrap up both the initial confusion-causing post and Ken's questions. The folks at ScoutingNews.org published a letter from National to councils that reads (emphasis mine): There appears to be some confusion as to President Barack Obamas relationship with Scouting. To ensure that each of you has factual information if this issue comes up, please review the following statements that will assist you with questions. 1.President Obama is the honorary president of the Boy Scouts of America. He accepted this honor soon after his inauguration last year and we appreciate his desire to serve in that position. 2.President Obamas signature is on the Eagle Scout pocket card and Eagle Scout wall certificate. As with any change in the administration at the White House, there is lag time between when the new president takes office and the processing and licensing of his electronic signature for our documents. 3.The President of the United States signature has never appeared on any of the lifesaving awards. 4.Although he was unable to attend the 100th Anniversary Gala in Washington, D.C., in February, he did send a very nice letter to congratulate the BSA on its centennial. That letter can be viewed at http://ww2.scouting.org/100years/100years/sitefiles/1000/Celebrating100Years/Presidential_Letter.pdf The Boy Scouts of America has always respected the office of President of the United States and will, as always, respect the holder of the office. Jim Wilson, Director, Communication Services It's at http://www.scoutingnews.org/2010/07/02/president-obama-bsa/

Makes sense if it includes Gettysburg. The phrase is from a little speech that a guy named Abe gave there a while back.

John wrote: "I will even come to your worship service (as I take kids in God and Church to see a service in synagogue) as long as I am in learning mode, vice worshipping mode." I like that distinction between learning and worshipping. That's kind of how I try to look at camp "worship services" - as an opportunity to learn about different beliefs, either a mix (in the case of an interfaith service) or a specific one (a faith-specific service). I welcome the opportunity to broaden my knowledge and perspectives. But if the chaplain asks folks to "pray in Jesus' name," I'll be the guy sitting there contemplating the beautiful sunset instead. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. We're all learners. Does anyone know the history of when "Scouts' Own" fell out of favor? I like that term a lot better than "interfaith worship service," for many of the reasons outlined in this thread. "Scouts' Own" just fits a lot better.

It's slightly off the main topic, but I will say this about photos ... I agree in theory with the no-last-names idea, but if you're taking photos for publicity purposes (i.e., sending them to your local newspaper), complete IDs are a must. As a reporter & editor, I've seen more than my share of groups (Cub packs in particular) that send in photos - of PWD winners lined up with their cars, for example - with just first names provided. As a general rule, we can't run those. If you're going to use photos for marketing or publicity purposes, gin up a model release form and slip it into your pack or troop's initial-registration info packet and have parents sign & return it. Simple, and problem solved.