shortridge

Consider it spun.

Topic: Recruiting and retaining OA ceremonialists for the whole gamut of inductions ceremonies, call-outs, AOL ceremonies, etc. I would observe that not everyone is cut out to be a ceremonialist. Though I had a role in the Brotherhood ceremony once (with a few hours' notice), and enjoyed it, a bespectacled, goateed chieftain does not an impressive ceremony make. Let the discussion begin ...

Here's some (non-official?) info. Doesn't look like any need to re-invent the wheel. Posture: Posture is evaluated with a posture-rating chart. The Scout or Scouter is compared to a photo of his or her starting posture, noting 13 different body segments. Each body segment is scored as a five, three, or one, making a possible range of scores from 13 to 65. Higher scores over time reflect improving posture. Accuracy: The target throw is used to measure accuracy. The Scout or Scouter makes 20 throws with a softball at a circular target and is scored on the number of times the target is hit. Strength: The sit-up is used to measure strength. The Scout or Scouter lies on his or her back with knees bent and feet on the floor. The arms are crossed on the chest with the hands on the opposite shoulders. The feet are held by a partner to keep them on the floor. Curl to the sitting position until the elbows touch the thighs. Arms must remain on the chest and chin tucked on the chest. Return to the starting position, shoulder blades touching the floor. The score is the number of sit-ups made in a given time. Agility: The side step is used to measure agility. Starting from a center line, the Scout or Scouter sidesteps alternately left and right between two lines 8 feet apart. He or she is scored on the number of lines crossed in 10 seconds. Speed: The dash is used to measure speed. The score is the amount of time to the nearest half-second running a set distance that can be increased each year. Balance: The squat stand is used to measure balance. The Scout or Scouter squats with hands on the floor and elbows against the inner knee. He or she leans forward until the feet are raised off the floor. The score is the number of seconds held in that position. Endurance: The squat thrust is used to measure endurance. The Scout or Scouter starts from the standing position. He or she performs the usual four-position exercise. The score is the number of completed squat thrusts made in a given time. http://www.boyscouttrail.com/content/award/award-237.asp

There is a suggested letter to parents included in the Guide to Inductions. If your lodge or chapter isn't using it as an icebreaker with parents, it should be.

Sorry, but having a 90 minute conversation to talk a parent out of observing the OA ceremony flatly contradicts the Scout policy of no secret ceremonies in my opinion. Seattle, If you're referring to my post a few above, nowhere did I say that a parent should be talked out of observing the ceremony. I said that having a frank conversation with a parent will more than likely alleviate their concerns. Discussing the mystery concept in detail - why and how we use mystery, how we use ceremony to forge the bonds of brotherhood - will probably make them realize that their Scout can stand on his own two feet and shine in his moment in the sun without Mom and Dad there to applaud and snap photos for the family album. It's not a question of dissuading them from attending. They have that right. It's a question of helping them understand more about the process and the practices, what their son will experience and what he will gain from it. Personally, if my parents had been there to watch my ceremony, I'd have been mortified beyond belief and never gone back. I imagine most young Scouts would feel the same. Who wants to be known as That New Guy Whose Embarassing Parents Tagged Along?

Lots of posters have eluded to this not being a scout like activity, because they are camping in someones back yard and spending time watching videos. Actually, no one has said this. I and others have pointed out that a back-yard campout is something Webelos might do, compared to a Boy Scout patrol, but no one's said it's not a Scout-like activity.

Around here, if it's not raining, it's not Scouting. You quickly get used to adapting outdoor program for under rain flies and inside lodges.

A knee-jerk "No parents allowed, sorry, it's a mystery" is clearly the wrong response. A careful, explanatory conversation, emphasizing the mystery and camaraderie that develops from the Order's inductions process, is what's called for. 99.99 percent of parents will understand. Bottom line: If the parents don't trust the unit's leaders or the Scouting hierarchy, it's probably time for them to find another program for their son. Abuse or misconduct can occur on a troop camping trip just as easily as it can at an OA event. hendricks wrote: "I remember as a boy one unit had a ceremony where the leaders would brand the scouts with a coat hanger. I guess the parents should not have complained because their boys were becoming men. Right?" Talk about hyperbole. No one has even remotely suggested that, and anyone who has should be stripped of their Scouting leadership posts.

BadenP and Beavah - EagleWB asked about the Scouting rules & regs. I think it's pretty clear that when you're in another country, that country's laws apply, and laws trump BSA rules any time.

Some of the most memorable "campfires" I ever experienced were in the pouring rain. When I worked camp staff, we had to do quite a few campfire programs under the "big top" dining hall tent when the weather turned foul. We moved tables all around and set up portable lights to make the "stage" visible. It worked great.

Each national Scouting organization is autonomous, with its own rules and regs. If, for example, ScoutBox is a member of the Swiss Scouting organization, the Swiss rules would apply. If ScoutBox is a member of the BSA in an overseas council, the BSA's rules would apply. What matters is who you're registered with, not what country you're in.

Minus the videos and adding an adult sleeping in his own tent, this is more or less what my Webelos den did when I was 8. Trust your Scouts. Register and train one of the parents, and you're good to go.

I saw a similar problem handled poorly when I worked on staff at a provisional "trail to Eagle"-type camp. There was a small subgroup of Scouts who behaved incredibly poorly - I assume they felt free to misbehave due to the absence of their own leaders. In one instance, someone defecated in a plastic bag, sealed it and tossed into the swimming pool. The camp director immediately closed the pool for all swimming activities except BSA Lifeguard training - not for sanitary reasons (it was sealed securely), but clearly and explicitly as punishment. Then, at one meal, one table of Scouts crammed a plastic drinking pitcher so tightly full of bread crusts, scraps of food, paper items and utensils that when it was held upside down, nothing came out. It was discovered when someone dropped it off at the kitchen for cleaning. The camp director held everyone in the dining hall for more than an hour, canceling all programs until someone came forward. Both bear some similarities to the OP's situation. In both cases, there were only a handful of individuals - or perhaps just one person - who knew the truth about what went on. In both cases, the entire group was punished for the actions of a few, including those who knew nothing about the misbehavior. And I'd wager that both cases also left a very foul taste in the mouth of the innocent Scouts. If memory serves, the "trail to Eagle" camp lasted only about a year after that.

E61: If he hasn't been classified as a Swimmer, he would had to have been in the canoe with an "an adult who is trained as a lifeguard or a lifesaver by a recognized agency," under the Safety Afloat rules. The Swimmer test is this: Jump feetfirst into water over your head. Swim 75 yards in a strong manner using one or more of the following strokes: sidestroke, breaststroke, trudgen, or crawl; then swim 25 yards using an easy resting backstroke. The 100 yards must be swum continuously and include at least one sharp turn. After completing the swim, rest by floating. This qualification test should be renewed annually.

"He apparently did not have a full change of clothes, so he returned to town in wet jeans...fortunately he had left his coat the vehicle, so that was dry." Whose responsibility is is to pack dry clothes for an activity on the water? The SM or your stepson? Now, IMHO, as jeans are totally inappropriate for an aquatic activity, especially one in cold weather, the SM should have put the kibosh on that from the start. A young Scout accustomed to wearing jeans everywhere may not have known better. They are heavy when wet and dry very slowly, making them a double threat in cold water. But even the greenest of greenhorns should know to pack an extra outfit when there's the potential to get wet. It's the whole Scout motto thing - the one that goes "Be Prepared."

Perhaps the SM's should consider that, given the number of divorce parents involved these days. It is not uncommon for divorced parents to not agree on extracurricular activities, so issues and events in extracurricular can easily be used against a parent. "Johnny broke his leg when he jumped into the lake on the Scouting campout that *you* signed him up for." Speaking as a divorced parent, that's a load of hogwash. Unless there's negligence or abuse or something truly serious, the fact that a kid had an accident and injured himself on a Scout campout is not going to be held against a parent by any reasonable court. Yeah, the other parent can blame you all he/she wants. But it's not going to go anywhere. Reel in the paranoia a little bit. As I said on another thread - bad stuff can happen in Scouts, at school, in youth groups, in sports.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Seattle, That's "chopped up baby parakeet."

If you're still here, I'm very sorry for what your son experienced. That type of conduct has no place in Scouting. However, it's worth noting that a child today could be beaten up any place - school, after-school clubs, sports, youth groups. A parent can't protect a child every place, every time.

JoeBob, The Master Educator course is a train-the-trainer program - LNT principles and practices, plus how to run the Trainer workshops. Dan

As long as scouts view the OA as lame, gay,and a drag the organization will continue to flounder. Replace "OA" with "Scouting" and you've got the Eternal Issue. If you can come up with a plan to make the stuff we do "cool" to every boy in the country, you're much smarter than I.

If you don't trust your son's troop leadership, either find another troop you do trust or pull him from the program. If his swimming skills are marginal, work on improving them. Define prepared? Scout went in, remained in wet clothes until they returned to launch site. Fortunately he had was made to take dry clothes by Mom. Yeah, not sure what you would have had them do in this case. Carry a sealed drybag full of clothes for everyone in the canoe and had him change in the middle of the lake?

Whenever you put a photo online, you are effectively relinquishing control over it. You may restrict viewing to members of a certain group, but you can't keep them from copying, saving or sending it to whomever they want - at least I haven't come across any software that'll allow you to do that.

I don't like finding out that the group did something that we were specifically told they would not be doing. So that there's no misinterpretation here - what exactly are you upset about? What were you told wouldn't be done? That they went canoeing in 40-degree water? Or that someone capsized?

LNT educational sessions can be adapted to many different types of audiences and times. The Trainer and Master Educator courses last several days.

Some do it under; most do it over. Just the way the style has evolved. A troop or pack can choose to do it either way.