shortridge

"Why would a Venturer take IOLS?" Because they can. Or because they want to improve their outdoor instructional skills. Pick one. From the October 2010 training update: "If you feel you have all the skills required in Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills it may not be necessary to take the course. Anyone who feels they can demonstrate all of the skills for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class should contact their District Training Chair and schedule a one-on-one session with a member of the training team. This statement also applies to Venturing Youth (over 18 years of age) who are able to demonstrate outdoor leader skills to an IOLS Certified Course Instructor." [emphasis added] http://www.scouting.org/Training/TrainingUpdates/Archives/201010.aspx To answer E92's question, I'd agree with Oak Tree.

My council recently published a list of the top popcorn salesmen by district. Having never been a huge salesman in my day (selling a few tins was a big deal), and being out of that part of the game nowadays, I was amazed by the amounts sold. Several of the top sellers hit just over $5,000 worth of popcorn, which blew my mind. But I was wondering - is that amount normal? high? low? compared to what others see?

Knights wear Snuggies??

OGE - Sounds like you're confusing lodge leadership with service and brotherhood. Just because an adult organizes a service project or camp improvement does not mean the youth aren't running the show. In my neck of the woods, Conclave hosting rotates among the lodges, with the schedule set - by the section leadership - several years in advance. And all service projects pass through the service vice-chief. An adult member can certainly propose something for his or her WB ticket, but it should be signed off on by the youth in charge of that area and delegated to the interested adult. Adults don't have a vote in the Order. We can make suggestions, but the decisions are out of our hands. We should be stepping back and coaching, mentoring, advising - and just plain serving alongside our brothers who happen to be youth. ThunderFox wrote: "... and the boys running it did not belong in Scouting at all." Please, for the sake of educating us lesser mortals: What criteria of yours did they not meet?

A bit of clarification to toss into this ridiculous name-calling thread - There are no such things as "OA adult leaders." The leaders in the OA are all youth. Adults have no vote, with their only authority, such as it is, stemming from their roles as advisors. The only adult member who has a say in a lodge's operations is the Supreme Chief of the Fire.

I'd agree with Calico. If you need the convenience of a card (such as for online purchases, campsite reservations, etc.), then get a pre-loaded Visa cash card. Works just like a credit or debit card, only you can't overspend or drain your checking account. Just put specific amounts on it for specific authorized purchases.

Actually, it is mentioned in the literature. Here's a First Class - First Year tracking sheet: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/boyscouts/pdf/34118.pdf And as Beavah has said, it's now an official unit responsibility in the new Guide to Advancement: "Establish practices that will bring each new BoyScout to First Class rank within a year of joining,and then to Star rank the following year." http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf (It's also apparently a special award in the Buckeye Council, FWIW: http://buckeyecouncil.org/Program/Advancement%20and%20Recognition/Youth%20Awards)

I'm still confused - was the FD saying that there were only two slots allocated to the council, or that the council would only be paying for two slots? If the former, then I can understand his concern. But either way, it seems silly to knock people out who want to go learn stuff. As an alternative, entirely non-fact-based hypothesis ... you say you've been emailing council officials for the last year about these issues. Is it possible that you've worn out your welcome and they see you as a gadfly on the issue, or that they disagree with what you're saying? Just a possibility to consider.

Did you tell this fellow you were offering to pay your own way?

Beavah, didn't you do the math at one point (or several points) showing just how logistically impossible it is to have an entire patrol do everything in a single year, focusing on cooking? I think that of itself should be evidence enough to end this ridiculous conceit.

The BSA was not kicked out of A.P. Hill. I repeat: Not. A U.S. District Court judge ruled against BSA's use of the base in 2005, but was reversed by an appeals court in 2007. That's why we were able to have the 2010 jambo there. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winkler_v._Rumsfeld

The thing is, our outdoor best practices already encourage smaller groups. The building block of Scouting is the patrol - and though reducing our impact wasn't what BP was thinking about, it certainly plays a role today. And Leave No Trace already says: "Visit in small groups when possible. Consider splitting larger groups into smaller groups." That said, it's not always practical to do so in remote situations, especially now that Irving cut patrol expeditions off at the knees. I understand your frustration, Basement, but I don't see how another rule is going to fix it. The same basic principles that apply to our conduct and practices in the city should apply to us in the backcountry.

Follow the Scout Oath and Law. That's all that's needed. Sounds like the problem here was with the leaders acting like jerks. No rule is going to stop that.

In my experience, "Retreat" has been what we called our daily end-of-day flag ceremonies at camp. Thus, to avoid confusion, our summer camp used the command "Color guard: Return to your post" to direct the CG to head back after retiring the colors, and just before dismissing the camp to dinner. As long as the ceremony is done with respect, dignity and practice, no one should really care what the words are that accompany it. Especially for Cub Scouts, though Boy Scouts and Venturers should be designing and executing their own ceremonies.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

A flag is called the colors, not the color. What does this mean?

Isn't the entire place only going to be partly constructed by 2013? Thus leading to some of the "deprivations"?

Why would you need to burn plastic bottles in the campfire? Why not just pack them out?(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Your local summer camp orders tons of the stuff through Sysco or other food-service distributors every summer. The distributors don't sell to individuals, but see if you can hook up with the council and buy extra packs. Or, heaven forbid, just suggest that the boys drink ordinary plain boring water. Edited to add: I also found some disgusting looking stuff online called "Sqwincher." You can get one case for $108.67, and it yields 80 gallons. Order more cases, and the cost goes down. http://www.hydrationdepot.com/Sqwincher-Lemon-Lime-Powder-Pack-5-gal.html Other online searches for "powder drink mix" or similar strings may get you better results.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

I always liked that Anthony Baden-Powell. So much nicer than his brother Robert. Also: That tagline does not show up on scouting.org, but does show up on an Atlanta council site. Looks like it's either a local ad campaign or a test run.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

The BSA has long believed that a tenured leader does not need to take basic training every time there is a new course... Anyone have a clue what "tenured leader" means in this context?

namu, The program may have sucked, but that's likely got nothing to do with the costs. $10 for a camporee sounds INCREDIBLY reasonable. And others are right - the DE has nothing to do with program. A camporee is run by volunteers like yourself. Sounds like they were really short-staffed.

I don't think we adults over-schedule and over-program kids because of any rule or reaction. I think some people do it because they don't trust the kids not to go drown in the creek during free time. Others are well-meaning but get too caught up in their own positions as "experts" or "leaders," get a swollen head and take a good thing way too far. (Witness the endless requests for ceremonies for presentation of the latest Cub doohickey. Only an adult would try to come up with a symbolism-full ceremony for a 50-cent pin or patch.) And still other adults are control freaks who can't stand the idea of unscheduled time.

A few things: >> Provide a meeting location. >> Provide unit leadership, taking seriously the CO's role in the selection of the committee. >> Represent your unit at the district and council levels, with the COR voting on and advocating for issues that would affect your unit. >> Promote the unit (e.g., recruiting opportunities). >> Recommend service projects. AlFansome hit it on the head. You can't have a CO that's hands-off but provides you with more benefits than you're already getting. Far, far better to find a like-minded, established CO to work with than to try to create something that won't last.

What BSA should do depends on its goals here. I've long since given up on the hope that its goal is to expose and bring to justice former Scouters who committed crimes against Scouts and actually make reports to law enforcement authorities. Irving has had the opportunity to so every year for the last 100, and has repeatedly chosen to hide and cover its derriere. If its goal is to look good, then it could do any number of things with its files, with special attention to victims' needs and desires, however. skeptic: I'll stop being accusatory toward the former Scouting executives who covered up the rape and sexual abuse of Scouts if you stop being accusatory toward attorneys who sue the BSA on behalf of victims by questioning their motives and ethics. Deal?(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Skeptic, I answered the questions you posed: "So, can we really make completely fair judgments on things from the past, using standards of today? Should we, especially if all the individuals in position of decision at the time, such as family, institutional leaders, or legal authorities felt it should not be done?" The answer is clearly yes. This is not ancient history or a different culture. This is a difference of at most 20 years. Nowhere did I suggest that you thought those policies were right. And while I'm at it, here's an answer to another of your questions: "Do we have to go back and open every rape case that was swept under the carpet because of the attitudes of the time?" I have a novel idea. While some of the information in its files is false or unverified - rumors and tips - the BSA undoubtedly knows which of its former volunteers have been convicted in courts of law of sex abuse crimes. Match up those cases to the files, and release them. The people have been convicted; they're not innocents. This would protect the people who were victims of simply nasty rumor. If the BSA did nothing wrong, then it should be proud to show the world how it handled those cases in which its volunteers and employees were convicted.