SeattlePioneer

Hello Troop 185, Congratulations on an outstanding program to support your Cub Pack. Many they send you MANY AOL Scouts! I just wish this were a lot more common rather than being very rare in my experience as a district leader. Only one troop in the district really makes an effort to aid and support their pack. They are richly rewarded in new Scouts for doing so.

Recent experience is leading me to the idea that a new Troop Committee position should be created: Cub Pack Representatives. The SMART troop will have a committee member or Assistant Scioutmaster assigned to sit in on Pack Committee Meetings of packs that feed their troop, to be sure that things that need to be done are done and that the troop is helping out with Den Chiefs and joint program activities with the pack when that's appropriate. Call that person a Boy Scout Troop Representative to a Cub Pack. But unfortunately, that's all too rare. Most Cub Packs ignore the Cub Packs that provide them with most of their Scouts except for a crossover ceremony when they grab up the Cub Scouts produced with enormous labor by the pack. So if Troops can't be relied upon to do their duty, perhaps Cub Packs should be represented on Troop Committees to lobby for the help and assistance they often need and deserve.

Sigh. Moosetracker again suggests that the issue is one of "fear." Of course that's not true. It's one of values, culture and political freedom and liberty. As is so common, my liberal friends think the fashionable values they promote are the only ones a reasonable person could hold. Of course that's not true. Homosexual interest groups have wanted endless favors from government to impose their own biases on society, and the Democratic Party, Clinton and Obama should be embarrassed about being led around by the nose so often. This is an issue about personal freedom and liberty. Homosexuals should be free to convince other people to hire them, and to accept their values and practices. But using government power to impose those views on others is obnoxious. It's also reasonable to expect government to protect homosexuals from assault and other crimes. Homosexuals are free to lobby government to be added to the short list of human relationships recognized by legal marriage, but there is no "right" to marriage: it's a legal privilege dispensed to only a few of the enormous variety of human relationships.

Some troops are designed to be Eagle mills, to get the maximum number of boys to Eagle in the minimum time and perhaps with a minimum of effort. They are designed that way by adults for adult reasons and purposes. I don't think there is a lot you are going to do about that, nor am I especially concerned about it. Those who want a more demanding program can usually find it --- that's the important thing to me.

Combining traditional Scout skills with new technology: "Start a fire on a gas range using a spark ignition system." ? I'm so cynical!

> Who runs away? I see no one running. The issue is being fought out mano-a-mano.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I'm with wahooker. Any event a pack helps promote and makes part of it's program would count for me. And count it for whatever month seems reasonable and appropriate. Personally I'd count it as a June activity. > The problem I have with multiple outings/month is that a lot of people tend to choose the one or two activities they like the most, so you cannibalize your own program and your dens or patrols have few people attending any particular activity. You wind up weakening your dens or patrols. But perhaps that's not a problem for you. Can you describe how that works?(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

There is nothing inevitable about following the fads and fashions of the white middle class. Indeed, the fads and fashions of the white middle class reliably produce political and social opposition by others who disagree with those fashions. White liberal opposition to provate firearms ownership has resulted in such rights being expanded by law and written into the constitution by the Supreme Court. White liberal support of abortion has resulted in widespread opposition to abortion on demand, state laws restricting abortion and rolling back constitutional protection of abortion by the Supreme Court itself. The Equal Rights Amendment for women was never ratified by enough states to be adopted. Nixon's "Silent Majority," an "Reagan Democrats" took control of the Federal government from White Liberals and may do so again in November. There is nothing "inevitable" about the rule of white liberals, nor is giving homosexuals additional social and cultural power necessarily a matter of "justice," in my opinion.

My council has what amounts to a shrine in the council office relating the Scouting history of a Scoutmaster who served more than FIFTY consecutive years as Scoutmaster.

In this thread I've been relating the issues facing a Cub Pack that has had a weak Pack Committee Chair, which also meant a grossly overloaded Cubmaster, who gave notice he is leaving that position in August. The Committee Chair also wants to leave that position. My suggestion a month ago in a meeting with the Cubmaster and Chartered Organization Rep was to ask a dynamic business executive to be Pack Committee Chair, on the theory that if an effective Pack Committee Chair was doing that job, it would be relatively easy to find an effective person to serve as Cubmaster. At the Pack Committee Meeting last night, the application for that new Committee Chair was completed, signed off and turned in to the DE, although the new CC wasn't there to run the meeting. I sent the new CC an e-mail on on line training and expressed the hope that the CC, COR and CM would find a new Cubmaster at the upcoming Pack overnight camping trip and pack meeting. So my bright ideas are being given a trial. We'll have to see if they work with the new CC doing that job effectively and finding the best person to serve as Cubmaster in particular. So have I been TOO BOLD as Unit Commissioner? So far, I'd say no. From ineffective strategies that weren't working, we have gone to a strategy that has replaced a weak Committee Chair with the BEST person available. An effective if new Committee Chair combined with an experienced but departing Cubmaster and an excellent Chartered Organization Rep ought to be able to combine to find an effective new Cubmaster, is my theory.

I've had people say they wouldn't participate in Scouting because homosexuals weren't accepted as leaders. Not since about 2007. Most people realize that BSA has a constitutional right to determine it's membership, despite current political fads and fashions. Questions about religion are a lot more common, and generally pretty easily answered. But white liberals are never going to be happy with Scouting, in my opinion. So I wouldn't bother trying to appease them, which is pointless and futile. Observe how Clinton, Obama and the Democrats are hag ridden by one demand after another from homosexuals. Why bother? They simply aren't important in the numbers game. Concentrate on what IS important --- recruiting the millions of Hispanics, Asians and African Americans, few of which give a fig about homosexuals, except to be disproportionately suspicious of them. IF BSA decides to accept homosexuals, I have no objection. Neither do I think it's at all important that they do.

It's a pointless issue for Scouting. The real issue is finding ways to recruit more Hispanic, Asian and African American Scouts. Among those critical demographic groups, none have much interest in homosexuals. If they do, they probably favor the status quo. Homosexuals are of interest mostly to white liberals, who aren't going to have much interest in Scouting in any case.

I agree with Dean RX --- don't do the Space Derby. I'd suggest doing stomp bottle rockets which are easily made from a sheet of paper and launched from a PVC launcher by stomping on a 2 liter soda pop bottle. A lot simpler and more fun, in my experience. It is a powerful draw for a recruiting night.

Hello Eagledad, Personally I consider Tiger Cubs the easiest and best of the Cub Scout program, mainly because the emphasis is mainly on having fun. No one is easier to please than Tiger Cubs. They can be happy doing almost anything for five minutes, ten minutes tops. After that you need to be ready to go on to the next activity. The only reason to have difficulty with Tiger Cubs is that most of the parents are new to Scouting and don't understand the program. There are ways to deal with that issue, but many packs have difficulty getting Tiger Cub Dens started each year. Those are my experiences, anyway.

Six kids are six kids. Add them to the eight you have and you have 14. new families can be started off right with the expectation that they will participate in and help organize pack activities. The fishing derby sounds like a fine activity --- generally boys love fishing. Can you explain how you organized that?

Hello No name, I'd rather talk about how to keep the pack going rather than shutting it down. What kind of program do you have? Where are your eight Scouts in the program? What kind of recruiting have you been doing lately? Has your District Executive been of assistance with recruiting? The pack I'm involved with was down to a single boy five years ago this fall. At present we have fourteen Cub Scouts, a quality program and pretty good leadership.

This sounds like a California general election somehow....

Hello scoutingagain, As I understand it, of the 34 states that have voted on gay marriage, 34 have rejected it and zero have approved it. In Washington State, the legislature approved gay marriage this year and signatures well in excess of the numbers to require a referendum on that law have been filed which will put the issue to a vote. I see no reason to suppose that the Republican Party is on the wrong side of the issue, but plenty that Democrats are. Democrats are being led around by the nose by homosexuals demanding that Democrats approve issue after issue after issue for their special interest group. They are NEVER happy. The gay marriage referendum could well be an issue that will draw voters to the polls, and very likely a significant majority will be voting it down. While Obama may still win Washington's electoral votes, that issue could help Republicans win other offices farther down the ballot.

Ummm. BSA is a large and diverse organization with a wide variety of constituencies. Someone who came in with a pet program they intended to implement without regard to possible problems and conflicts would almost certainly fail if they weren't fired first.

As a pack leader, I've repeatedly visited the neighboring Troop's meetings after the pack meeting was over, and I'm pretty well acquainted with the adult troop leadership. However, e-mails to the SM and troop committee chair to secure more cooperation for the pack have gone without replies. Recently I was appointed Unit Commissioner for the Troop. I attended the Troop Committee meeting Wednesday for the first time, and the Patrol Leader meeting was going on simultaneously but separately. The Troop is really in excellent shape in terms of program and leadership. The biggest weakness I see is membership --- new Scouts. The Pack has four Webelos II Scouts who could join the pack next February or March, so one of my aims was to secure more cooperation and support from the troop. I was invited to talk to the PLC meeting, and the SM has offered to call the Webelos Den Leader and invite the den along on a mountain day hike in July and the Washington State Jamboree in August. That would be an excellent program assist for the Webelos Den, I would say. We didn't get around to talking Den Chiefs, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Getting the Troop and the Webelos Den to cooperate on an outdoor activity or two would be a great start. A good experience on one or both of those activities and perhaps we can talk Den Chiefs when our den and pack meetings start again in September. I've also thought about having the Webelos Scouts ask the SPL to find a Den Chief or perhaps have the Webelos Scouts ask a particular Boy Scout to serve as Den Chief. That might be an appeal that would be hard to turn down. Several of the Scouts are working up Eagle projects. Being a Den Chief would be an excellent opportunity to ask the pack and pack parents to help with the Den Chief's Eagle project, I'm thinking. I continue to try to think of ways to create interest by the Troop in helping with the needs of the Pack.

> Now that is a Troop that is on the ball! If more troops were that smart, we would have more Cub Scouts and more Boy Scouts and a lot less failing units.

Hello Eagle 69, As a District Membership Chair, I have seen a failed pack lead to a failed troop. Two Fer The Price Of One, and not in a way we would like to see! Smart troops will have a volunteer who keeps an eye on their pack, maintaini9ng good relations, coordinating programs where possible and generally being supportive and looking for weaknesses, especially in recruiting. I just attended a Troop Committee meeting for the troop that boys from my pack should be going to. I encouraged the troop to choose a unit leader to be the Pack Unit Commissioner, and generally to start getting involved and supporting the pack. We made a start. The SM is going to call the Webelos Den Leader and invite the Webelos on a wilderness day hike with the Troop July 14th and to attend the Washington State Scout Jamboree in August along with the Troop. We'll have to see if some of that happens. In my experience, troops take packs for granted when they should be taking care to help care for the welfare of Cub Packs.

Generally speaking, a troop without a pack to feed it will be failing before long --- a few years. Generally speaking, you can grow a pack from a Tiger Cub Den into a whole program. That's what I've been doing over the past nearly five years. Have a good Webelos Den Leader and Webelos Den, and you can grow yourself a new troop over a period of years as well. So I'd save/start the cub pack, with the expectation that a troop would grow out of that when it was needed. Of course, most adults find the troop program more interesting, which is why it's common to find adults staying on a troop leaders after their sons age out of the program, while that is a lot rarer among Cub Packs. But Cub Packs are the seed from which most troops grow and are sustained. That's why I'm a Cub Scout unit leader --- to grow more Boy Scouts. As a DE once told me, "You can't have a youth program without YOUTH!"(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

My pack has always had a big falloff in participation for June meetings, and turnout for our pack overnight/pack meeting the third week of June was only adequate. This year we eliminated June meetings and scheduled our pack overnight for June 2-3. That resulted in MUCH better attendance.

I didn't know that BSA had the reputation for being a refuge for homosexuals. Liberals take note!