SeattlePioneer

<< a dose of tolerance might be good for everyone if applied, say, to the Taliban, maybe a few others? >> Actually, I have no objections to the religious beliefs of the Taliban. Personally, I think they should reconsider the methods they use to carry out their religious beliefs. But even mass murder has been a common theme in the history of many religious and political movements. Of course, that works both ways. When confronted with the methods of the Taliban, I have no objection to using defensive tactics that might include, say, tracking e-mails around the world or water boarding Taliban leaders to get needed information. As a practical matter, wishing that they were different isn't going to get you anywhere. You need effective strategies to deal with such political and military facts of life.

<< Have you listed YOURS?, >> No, and I don;t intend to. The constant demands on the time of volunteers for pointless record keeping are a bad feature of BSA, in my opinion.

Our dens are usually scheduled to meet twice a month, plus either a Pack meeting or activity. When I was building up the pack from pretty much nothing, we had two den meetings per month. Personally, I don't think quantity is especially important --- quality of meeting is a lot more important, in my view. Den leaders have huge demands on them. Cutting down to twice a month seems very reasonable to me. And I'd look at rates of participation by boys and parents too. With more meetings to attend, you may be promoting more absenteeism.

Doesn't seem very Scout like to me. That's the first reinstatement fee I've heard of in Scouting. In general the attitude of Scouting seems to be a warm welcome back and no punitive fees to anyone who care to rejoin after an absence.

Yep --- we're vulnerable to that. One thing I've thought about... Our council provides deposit slips so that money can be deposited with a local bank that has lots of branches. It might be worth giving out a few deposit slips along with the popcorn and encouraging families to deposit the cash and checks in the bank after money is collected each day. Having money sit around is an invitation to a problem for some people. "Lead me not into temptation, and deliver me from evil...."

<> Yes, I think this was the best solution. Anyone who thinks that OA standards and practices are more important than the disappointment of the boy in this circumstance ought to turn in his sash and flap, in my opinion. <> Ummm. "A Scout is Trustworthy. Shouldn't be exaggerating like that! Frankly, I think OA needs a major overhaul to dump the Indian rig a marole. I visited the district OA meeting last week and suggested this to the district OA leaders, but they eat that stuff up. That's fine, but if they actually pitched OA as an opportunity to learn keen Indian dancing, I suspect that the number of people attending Ordeal would drop sharply.

In the past we've bought pizza to serve during the race. This year I'm planning to propose that boys make their own pizza. The church parish hall where we meet and race has big commercial ovens available. So I'd make a big batch of bread dough and carve off a piece for boys and parents to roll out, sauce, cheese and pepperoni, and then bake. Making your own pizza is vastly cheaper and can be fun to make. In my view, every family that likes to eat pizza should be familiar with how to make their own as a family activity. It aseems to me that making your own pizza during the PWD could help with developing that skill and experience. In past years, we've had pizza making as a den meeting activity, and it's been very popular. Anyone else do pizza making as a den or pack activity?

ALL these seem like the ordinary meat and potatoes of political methodology and organization!

Nothing planned at the district or council level that I've heard about. I WOULD WELCOME THE KIND OF TRAINING YOU SUGGEST MYSELF.

< >> Pinewood Derbies tend to get more complex and "win" centric over the years. Downshifting these events so they are simpler and more fun for boys can be difficult, meeting resistance from those committed to a high stakes competetive event. So what are the secrets to downshifting from complex to simpler events?

< A ski jump (aka the wheel breaker). You get points for distance. >> Those sound interesting. In general, I like to vary competitions in different ways which helps mkeep boys interested. Can you describe ho you conduct these events min more detail?

Generally I'm negative about awarding Tiger Cubs and Cub Scouts trophies for winning a competition. I favor awarding boys stickers for winning competitions, usually a sticker for each time they do an activity, such as a single Pinewood Derby race. Plenty of time for high stakes competition when boys are older and more emotionally ready to lose. High stakes competition usually involves one winner and 25 losers, and Cub Scouts is too young for that to be the method used, in my opinion. However, last year there was some parental demand for PWD trophies, so I designed my version of a PWD trophy. It's quite simple. a 8"x8" or so wood base of 3/4" wood, and a section of 2x4 with the top cut at a 45 degree angle. I cut both the base and the riser and painted them. The boys assembled their trophy, placing the riser wherever they wish on the base, and nailing the riser in place. I built a couple of jigs which made assembling the trophy easier. I used a color printer to print up a sticker for the trophy with the pack number, date and Cub Scout images for both the base and the riser, and the boys put the stickers on where they wished. The nifty part was driving a nail in at the bottom of the 45 degree angle on the riser, which allowed boys to use their trophy to display their PWD car --- something you wont find on commercial trophies! So boys built their PWD trophy the meeting before the PWD race. The trophies were collected and put on display at the race, and the first time a boy won a PWD race, they could come forward and be awarded their trophy. Boys were awarded a sticker for each PWD race they won, and they could put their stickers on their car, their trophy or the PWD Driver's license they were given at registration. So... was this "trophies for everyone?" Well, yes..... and no. Boys had to build their trophy and then had to win a race to have it awarded to them. I maintain that's Cub Scout level competition. It uses the natural competition boys like and enjoy without imposing the high stakes competition more appropriate to Boys Scouts and adult activities.

<> Ummm... that's what I said, I think. < One other thing we do that really helps keep the event fair is do the pre check-in the day before the competition. That gives the committee a day to make sure all the cars are fair, and more importantly a day to fix the cars. The committee members are usually dads who know their way around pinewood derby cars and tools, so they can pretty much fix anything. While this discussion is about the aggressive parents with super modified cars, truth is most cars need a little help getting up to a fair competition setup because their parents didn’t have the skills build a fair running car. If you want to see the best of mans nature, just watch these men in action.>> In my view, if you need this kind of committee, you have a problem, and a pretty bad one in my view. Adults are dominating the PWD and the Cub Scouts are lost in that process. And it doesn't sound simple either. In my view Tiger Cubs and Cub Scouts (Webelos a bit different) should be about boys doing projects and activities with parents there to offer some support, supervision and assistance. That's what we achieve with the PWD I describe at the beginning of this thread. The single moms or those with no woodworking experience or tools still have access to tools, advice and help if needed. And everyone has a similar amount of time to build and decorate their car. Boys who are ready to race after an hour can start racing then. That tends to encourage others to finish up their car and start racing too, and pretty much everyone is racing an hour and a half after starting. I don't take competition out of the PWD. But neither do I use competition the way adults use it and experience it. I use competition the way boys use it and experience it, which tends to be low key and informal. Boys may have a chance to race 20-30 times, and each time they are recognized if they win the race by winning a sticker for their car or PWD Driving License. That both recognizes their win but keeps the win low key. Boys may see who has the most stickers, but the Cub Pack doesn't recognize the boy who has the most stickers. That way every boy can take pride in what they achieved, and resolve to try to do better next year.

< >> I do fairly well these days finding new leaders at the unit and district level. My method begins with having a quality program that other people respect and appreciate. Then I look around for good people and make a point of inviting them to begin doing small leadership tasks. If they carry those out effectively, they are likely prospects to be asked to take on formal leadership responsibilities. Sometimes I get turned down when I ask people to take on jobs. Other times, people have been waiting to be asked. I have a pack that was down to a single boy when I took it over --- we have 23 Cub Scouts right now. One of the reasons I took it over was to support the neighboring Boy Scout Troop that had a good program but troubles finding new Scouts since "their" Cub Pack wasn't performing. Now they are doing better, and we'll have a number of Webelos IIs joining them in a few months, I hope. At the district level, I watched very unhappily as ineffective district leadership let the district unwind with finding new leaders. A year ago I resolved to revive the use of the required District Nominating Committee to find new and effective leadership. After making myself VERY unwelcome at district committee meetings much of this year, the District Nominating Committee has at least been appointed and is searching for effective leadership. In Cub Scouts, we Do Our Best....

Call the cops....? Child Protective Services? Probably only have to do that once...

So.... what do you find or think are the best days of the week to schedule den or pack meetings?

One of the best times to turn in your patch is when you recruit ANOTHER ADULT to take your place so you can go on to something else that needs to be done. Actually, I don't turn in my patch. I save it as part of my Scouting scrapbooks, of which I have two.

The Pinewood Derby I designed while rebuilding a Cub Pack has endured now for seven years without much in the way of modification. Boys arrive about 10 AM and register, receiving a PWD car kit and a colorful Pinewood Derby Driver's License. Adults are invited to bring what hadn woodworking tools they have for use by any of the boys. Parents are invited to supervise and assist their boys in building their car, and boys are welcome to seek assistance from any other adult while building their car. So the single mom with no woodworking tools or experience can draw on the tools and experience of other parents in helping her boy build his car. Similarly, parents who have some expertise in polishing axles or whatever are invited and encourage to make that expertise available to any of the boys who are interested. After an hour or so, boys are usually ready to start racing. They are free to pick any other boys they want to race against, and they put their cars on the race track. The winner of each racing heat receives a sticker they can put on their PWD Driver's license or on their car, if they prefer. The boys are welcome to race as many times as they wish. At the peak of the races, we probably have 2-3 races PER MINUTE. There is no effort to pick out the boy with the most stickers for special recognition. Each boy is encouraged to take satisfaction in the number of wins they have, whatever that number may be. We do make an effort to identify boys who aren't winning at all. They may have some defect in the car that can be corrected or we can set them up to race against other boys with slow cars. And they can look forward to next year. If the Webelos Den Leader wishes, he can have car building workshops before the PWD giving those older boys greater opportunity to design and build cars. Racing usually goes on for another hour to hour and a half, and to stop the racing when boys are starting to get bored with the activity. My idea of a good Cub Scout contest is one that uses boys natural competetiveness to spark their interest and enthusiasm, but not so competetive that it leads to much in the way of disappointment or unhappiness. With this event, boys get the opportunity to learn the joys of compettion. They have a lifetime to learn about the disappointments. Sharper competition is fine for older boys --- perhaps Webelos age or older. But suffer the little children to be able to enjoy simple competition they do among themselves, just for the [pleasure of winning, losing and competing with their friends and buddies.

It's hardly surprising that the only Hollywood Movie about Cub Scouts is about cheating and bad behavior in a Pinewood Derby. In my view ADULTS create problems with Pinewood Derbies by making them too complex and too competitive --- to suit their own needs, not those of young boys. The problem with Pinewood Derbies is USUALLY that of adult egos. The way to a better Pinewood Derby is to make things simpler so that boys are in control of races and building their cars, and competition is low key and on a level that boys enjoy without high stakes winning and losing. I've designed and been running that kind of Pinewood Derby for seven years, and it works very well, in my opinion. I'll describe that in the days ahead. But I invite other comments about Pinewood Derbies as a Cub Scout activity.

<> Heh, heh! One of my aims is to give new parents a VISION of what a quality Cub Scout experience should be like. A second aim is to give people that experience right off the bat, and experience is a big help there. Another aim is to identify the person or persons who is likely to carry on as a den leader effectively, and to whom I can turn the den over to. And I find the idea of making demands on new parents to be den leader when they know nothing about the program distasteful. Another advantage is that since you get a new crop of boys and parents each year, you can recycle the best of your program ideas each year, rather than coming up with new ideas all the time.

I leave Scouting positions when they are no longer rewarding for me. I've left many Scouting positions over the past 1/3 century. In recent years I've left all my district positions, which included Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner, District Membership Chair and Unite Commissioner. I left those positions in favor of being Chartered Organization Rep with a goal of getting new District leadership --- and I've played a role in getting a highly effective new District Commissioner and the recently appointed District Nominating Committee is searching for the best District Chair right now. So I think you need to identify what makes you happy and in what ways you are being effective. As a volunteer, I aim to do things I am either good at doing or things that I want to do, and I encourage volunteers I am recruiting to consider using those guideline as well.

<> EXCELLENT! I always imagine that one of the great eye opening experiences in growing up is when a Scout becomnes a Patrol Leader and discover that while he can GIVE orders, getting patrol members to follow them is often quite a different thing! Often the new Patrol Leader was one of the Patrol members who didn;t cooperate much with the Den Leader!

Monday was our Tiger Cub Den Meeting. I like to put each den activity on a 4x6 card, which makes it easy to change the order of activities or revise planned activities as needed. 1. Gathering activity --- boys made Tiger claws out of cardboard and taped them to their fingers. (many parents are late getting to the den meeting, soc the gathering activity is designed to consumer enough time until most people are there. In this case the opening ceremony started about 6:40) 2. Opening ceremony---- the Tiger Cubs and I hold our den flag up by the staff with our left hands, made the Scout sign with our right hand and repeated the Cub Scout Promise which is on a poster, 3. We practiced a Tiger Cub song for our Pack meeting next Monday "If your a Tiger and you know it show your CLAWS!" Well, they had their claws on, and the signing was fun because they could act out the song. 4. We made Santa's sleigh out of a cardboard box which was towed by reigndeer pulling on a rope. The boys tied the rope and then practiced towing each other around and being towed as Santas and Reigndeer. The parents got to be reigndeer and tow their boys around. Then the boys had a chance to decorate their sleigh using wrapping paper and stuff left over from making a den flag. 5. We completed the Tiger Cub den activity making leaqf rubbings, and the leaf rubbings were then used as part of a Holiday/Christmas greeting or thank you card. Since I find that few Tiger Cubs have much real drawing ability, I supply printouts of Cub Scout and Tiger cub images and holiday art that boys can cut out, arrange and glue onto a piece of 8x11 colored paper folded into a card. Of course they can make their own artwork if they wish to do so. 6. Closing ceremony, using the Law of the Pack. That was a pretty full and active meeting!

Interesting idea. This is my eighth year as the Tiger Cub Den Leader. During the course of the year I look for Tiger Cub Partners (not always parents) who seem interested in the program and give those people opportunities to present prgram elements. The ones who display an interest and ability are the ones I consider inviting to take over as den leader when I begin a new Tiger Cub Den with spring recruiting. So far, that's worked pretty well. It's really disgraceful though how little most parents take responsibility for thew program. I give each a "Bobcat" handbook that describes the difgferent Bobcat achievements, and encourage parents to inform me when their boy has completed the requirements. I also go over ALL the Bobcat requirements in the first few den meetings. So really, all the parents really need to do is attend the meetings and inform me when their boy have completed the requirements. So far, only one of six boys has his Bobcat. However, I've decided that you can't let yourself be discouraged by parents with limited interest --- they have their problems too. Monday we made a Cjhrsitman "sleigh" out of a carbopard box, with boys fastening a rope so that the "reigndeer" could pull Santa in his "sleigh." Then the boys took turns being Santa and reigndeer, pulling each other around the floor. They were deleriously happy with that, and the parents had a good time watching it. The the parents had a chance to be the reigndeer and pull their boy around the racecourse --- that was at l;east as much fun! We also did the Tiger Cub leaf rubbing den activity, using the leaf rubbings as part of a holiday greeting or thank you card the boys could give to a loved one. I find that works well as a Christmas den activity. Next Monday is the big Chruistmas Party/Pack meeting --- where dens will be doing relay races as part of the pack sleigh race!

How 'bout forming a two man patrol? Absent that, it really isn't your problem --- it's the Patrol Leader's problem. What kind of a Patrol Leader is there? Even if you maintain the current patrol, I'd have no problem with the Patrol Leader assigning these two boys to camp and cook together, and let the chips fall where they may! One of the reasons Scouting builds character is that boy learn that action have consequences. You and or the patrol leader have been bailing out these boys, so they don't have to face the consequence of their actions. I fondly remember two boys who went out on a bicycling outing with our troop as a first outing. The Scouts warned the boys to hang their food to avoid having critters eat it, but they didn't. The critter did eat it and there wasn't much left for these boys. They went hungry. They nwever joined the troop but I suspect they might have learned something from the one outing they were on. Seattle Pioneer