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Posts posted by ScoutNut

  1. "Historically" your Troop has worn red numbers and red loops (and don't forget red caps) because, prior to the release of the new uniform in 2008, those WERE the official Boy Scout colors. There was no green option at all.


    The problem with making red the Troop "standard" is that (as you have noticed) while you can still get the red numbers from BSA National Supply because they are part of the Cub Scout uniform, the red shoulder loops have been entirely phased out. New Troop members would have to look for red loops on ebay, or at garage sales. Or, one other option (one I would not advocate), make their own red shoulder loops.


    Personally, I think that, for practical purposes, your Troop should keep all current Scouts in red/red, and all new Scouts in green/green. Eventually, as the Scouts age out, all of the youth members will be in green/green.


    If the Troop insists that every Scout wear the same, then the Troop should pay for new green numbers/loops for the current Scouts.

    • Downvote 1
  2. Did you ever talk to the head of your Charter Organization?


    What kind of organization is your Charter Org? Does it actually have a head, or is it just a 2 person CO - COR, and his wife, only?


    Again, venting here is just venting. It will not do anything to improve your situation. If your have an actual Charter Organization - talk to it's head officer about what is going on in IT'S pack.


    If what you have is a 2 person CO, then your best bet is to leave. Find a decent Pack to move into. Tell the other parents that you are leaving. Tell them why, and where you are going. Invite them to come along.



  3. If you were doing all of the work in your Tiger den - by yourself - then, while your Tigers might have been having a fun time, you were NOT running a BSA Tiger program.


    A BSA Tiger program is run using "Shared Leadership". That means that everyone in the den gets a chance to "run things", put together a den meeting, put together a den outing, and in general learn about Cub Scouting, and leadership, in a "hands on" manner.


    Why are you so concerned with someone else "getting credit" for what you did? This is Cub Scouts, not a competition. Your Council could care less who actually did the work in your Pack's Tiger den. Your Committee Chair, Committee, other leaders, and the den parents all know. Why is that not enough? It is not like the registered Tiger Den Leader can use what you did in the den to "steal" the training award from you.


    As for being registered in 2 positions at once - here is what is on the BSA Adult Application -


    No one may register in more than one position in the same unit, except the chartered organization representative (CR) (who can multiple only as the committee chairman (CC) or a committee member (MC)), and the parent coordinator (PC), who may multiple as chartered organization representative.


    What are you currently registered as? Has your registration been changed to Cubmaster yet?


    If you are hot about receiving your "bling", and are still registered as an assistant den leader (yes-this is a valid position-DA-although it is not generally used in Tiger dens because of Adult Partners & Shared Leadership), talk to your council to see if they allow assistants to earn the Den Leader Training Award. Some might, especially if it was a matter of not registering you in the correct position originally.

  4. Can Scouting units use funds to assist youth members who have a financial need?

    The unit can allocate funds based on financial need, and may consider factors such as

    participation in the unit, advancement, and Scout spirit.


    In other words, if all monies are kept in the Troop bank account, it is Troop money, not Scout money. Troops are able to "allocate" their Troop funds as they see fit.

  5. How long has this Troop been in existence?

    How many Scouts are registered?

    Why did you, and the other parents, choose this particular Troop to join?


    If their paperwork has lapsed, and this CO is no longer a valid organization, then your unit's BSA Charter is in jeopardy.


    With no real CO, and probably no real charter, do you know that the Scouts are actually registered? Are any rank advancements being recorded/accepted by your council?


    The first thing to do is to contact your council registrar to make sure everyone is registered, and to find out the status of your Charter. Then you need to contact your BSA District Executive.


    You all need to find a real/new CO with help from your DE.


    Get everyone trained for their positions (it really sounds like you all need that), and start up a new Troop.


  6. 5 Scouts, and 50 people?


    Does each of those 5 Scouts have 9 folks in their families?


    Who are you going to recruit as CM? Your son, your daughter, or the one other person (not related to you) who volunteers to do anything?


    Always assuming they are not completely burned out after the PWD/B&G.





    FSUscout' date=' thanks, but that link doesn't seem relevant to me. Although fire is involved this is not a youth and fire starting situation, this is adult using a flammable chemical for a ceremony.[/quote']


    I do not understand why you state that it is not relevant. This is from the BSA National web site SPECIFICALLY addressing Flaming Neckerchief ceremonies.


    Seems very relevant, and clear cut, to me.

    • Upvote 1
  8. Thanks for the input. First, I do believe the Tiger den leader "Did His Best". he scheduled a tour of a real working newspaper printer. However, he was unable to get a date before B&G. I do not think taking the scouts to "Kinkos" would at all be "Doing your Best". That sound more like meeting the letter of the requirement and not truly giving the scouts something they will remember.


    I fully support this leader in his effort to create meaningful Go-See-Its for his den and a great program. Instead of watching baseball on TV he arranged for them to go to a real baseball game and run the bases after the game was over. Which one do you think is "Doing your Best"? should his den be punished because they didn't take the easy way out?


    A visit to "Kinkos" is a perfectly valid way for the boys to participate, and do their best. The Achievement is NOT about simply visiting a TV, or newspaper. It is about discovering ways of communicating with other people. In fact, a copy center is even recommended by BSA as a way to complete the requirement.


    From the BSA Tiger Handbook -


    Note to Adult Partner: If your community doesn't have opportunities for you to take the den to visit a television station, radio station, or newspaper office, you may take them to a print shop, copy center, or business that reproduces its own newsletter. Your school or place of worship may have equipment for reproducing fliers and newsletters. The goal is to show boys how media can be used to communicate with a lot of people. One benefit of visiting a television station, radio station, or newspaper office is that boys may be reminded of the visit when watching television, listening to the radio, or reading a newspaper.


    This is not an "easy way out". It is one way (out of a number of different ways) that the requirement can be completed. Any of the various different ways can be great fun for the boys. It simply takes some imagination, and a bit of pre-planning.


    And, BTW, if the only way for a Tiger to complete Achievement 3-G was to was to watch a game on TV with his family, then - YES - that would be "doing his best".


    Remember this is about the SCOUT, not the leader, doing his best.


    This is also not about "punishing" anyone. It is about making sure the boys that get the award have completed the requirements for it. Celebrating their achievement at your B&G, but giving out the actual badge at the final go-see-it, is a good way of doing that.


    It is a simple matter of handing out a certificate, instead of the badge, at the B&G. The certificate can state something along the lines of "To be redeemed at your Go-See-It for your freshly published Tiger badge."


    If your "crossover" at your B&G includes graduating all Scouts to their next level (which I strongly disagree with) there is no reason not to include the Tiger den in that ceremony as (has been stated above) moving up levels has nothing to do with earning any award.


    Again - what is your position in the Pack?


    Are you the Tiger den leader?

    • Upvote 1
  9. Co-den leaders is a WONDERFUL idea!! Any Pack would likely jump at the prospect of having such involved parents from the get-go!


    Bringing your daughter with you to Tiger den meetings should not be a problem. Just make sure she has her own activities to keep her busy. If there ends up being multiple siblings, consider asking for an older sibling to tag along and help out (could be a good opportunity for service hours for them).


    I second the comment to purchase a Tiger Handbook for yourself. The parent introduction at the front of the book does a great job of explaining the Tiger program. You can also find out about the training you will need, and do the online training here -





    Have FUN! And remember -


    Tigers are G-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-E-A-T ! (ideally done at the top of the lungs - by everyone - with lots of teeth and claws!)

  10. Since you are so concerned with BSA policy -


    First - earning your badge of rank is a completely separate event from moving to the next Cub level. Cub Scouts do not "crossover" (actually the term is graduate) to their next level until the END of the school year. BSA automatically moves all registered Cubs up on June 1st. No matter what. The Cubs in the Pack have 2 more months to work in their current Cub level, and earn more beads/arrow points/etc.


    Second - How does the BSA "Do Your Best" policy fit in your scenario? How have the Tiger Scouts done anything, much less their "best", to complete this requirement? This is not about "different developmental timetables" in the Tigers. This is about Tiger Partners who have left everything in the lap of the den leader. This is about a den leader who can't read a calendar, or schedule properly. A tour of a local copy center would have completed the requirement long ago.


    What happens when you give out the Tiger rank awards this weekend, but when it comes time to actually go on the outing, and finish up the badge requirements, some of the Tiger families decide they do not have to because their son has already "earned" the badge?


    How is that doing their "best"? What is that teaching the boys?


    Personally, if I were the Tiger den leader, I would 1) try MY best to get the requirement covered - somehow - before the weekend, 2) failing that, I would let my Tiger Teams know that they would participate in the award ceremony this weekend, but that I would be collecting the badges back again, and they would be re-issued at the outing which completes the requirements. That outing, or something else that completes the requirements would happen IMMEDIATELY, not in a month or two.


    Also, you keep stating that you can not change Pack policy. Why not?


    What is your position in the Pack?


    All it takes is one person to stand up and say - Hey! We are doing this wrong! Here the way that is recommended by BSA, and here is a way that is better/more fun for the BOYS.


    All it takes is for one den leader to stand up at a Committee/Leader meeting and state that their den has completed all requirements for their rank award, and they are presenting them to their den, with a fun ceremony, at the very next Pack meeting.


    Just do it. One den, one leader, at a time.



  11. Your son can not actually join a Cub Scout Pack until June 1st. At that point he is done with kindergarten, and for BSA's purposes, officially a 1st grader.


    He will be joining a brand new den of Tiger Cubs. Unless the Pack you choose has a dedicated, permanent Tiger den leader (and few do), the leader of your son's Tiger den will be chosen from the group of new Tiger parents. That usually happens after the summer, with the big start of the year recruitment push.


    All Tigers are required by BSA to have a Tiger Adult Partner register with them. This Adult Partner (you), and the Tiger Scout, are a team, and attend/do everything together.


    You have 2.5 months until summer. Contact the Cub Scout Packs in your area. Talk to their Cubmaster, and find out what kind of a summer program they have. Find out if you can visit one of their Pack meetings between now and summer. Pack meetings are usually held once a month during the school year, so you should have a number of opportunities. Talk to the Cubmaster, the leaders, and the Pack families. This will give you a fairly good feel for the Pack.


    Talk to the families in your son's school. Find out which Pack the boys in the school usually attend. That should be the first one on your list to check out.


    Once you pick out a Pack, you can register with them as of 06/01. Once registered, you, and your son can attend any/all of your council's summer events open to Tiger Scouts. Check out your council's website for information. You can also attend all of your new Pack's summer activities.


    Regular Tiger den meetings will not start until the start of the school year, after the other new Tigers for his Tiger den have been recruited.


    If you do not want to commit to a specific Pack before Fall, and are not interested in attending any council activities this summer, you can ask your area Packs if you can visit some of their Pack activities during the summer. This would give you more time to get to know the different Packs. You can then register with the Pack of your choice in the Fall.


    Have FUN!!

  12. In order to be eligible to be voted into the OA, a Scout must meet various requirements, and be approved by his Scoutmaster.


    Eligible Scouts are voted into OA by all of the Scouts (under 21 years of age) in their own units (both members, and non-members of OA).


    In order to have an election 50% of the unit's registered, active, members under 21 have to be present.


    In order to be elected into OA a Scout's name has to appear on 50% of the ballots that are turned in. Scouts can vote for all eligible Scouts, only some, none at all (turn in a blank ballot), or abstain from voting (not turn in a ballot at all).


    So, if there are 12 active, registered Scouts in your son's Troop, at least 6 have to be there at election time. If all 6 turn in a ballot, your son's name has to be on at least 3 of them. If 11 ballots are turned in your son's name has to appear on at least 6 of them.


    Your son has been a member of the Troop for 4 years, attends every Troop meeting, every week, and has only missed 2 weekend campouts, and 1 week of summer camp.


    Yet the boys in the Troop still do not know him?


    He needs to learn to be more pro-active, and offer his help, instead of waiting to be asked.


    He needs to work on his interpersonal skills, and start actually connecting with the other Scouts.


    He needs to make friends.

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  13. Advancement for Cub Scouts is a totally different creature than for any other BSA program.


    Advancement, from one Cub level to the next, is automatic. It happens every June 1st in the BSA computers - no matter what. The boys do not have to actually have done anything at all during the year. As long as they are registered Cub Scouts on May 31, they will be "advanced" to their next Cub level on June 1 by BSA.


    What many folks call "advancement" is actually earning an award.


    Cub Scouts have the opportunity, by completing various requirements, to earn an award that is age appropriate for the Cub level they are in.


    That is all it is. An award.


    An award that is not REQUIRED to be earned.


    If you want to track what awards the Cub Scouts in your District are earning, then push the use of Internet Advancement by Packs to record the information to the BSA database. Also, make sure your Scout Shops require an advancement form for all Cub Scout rank awards, and that those forms get recorded somehow.


    If you want to track how many Cubs are moving from one level to the next, you need to be tracking the registration numbers at recharter every year.


  14. You have "by-laws" that state what a Committee Member is?


    Why? Is BSA unclear in it's definitions?




    You hold "elections" for volunteer positions within the Pack?


    Again, why? Do you often have more volunteers than you need? Or is this for approval purposes only? If for approval only, again, why?


    Per the BSA Adult Application - http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-501.pdf Unit volunteers are approved by the Committee Chair, and the Charter Organization Head, or Representative.


    BSA has also developed a method for picking new Cub Scout volunteers that works well -




    Never heard of elections, or by-laws, for a Cub Pack. Do you have a copy of the BSA Cub Scout Leader Book?






  15. Yep, all parent volunteers here too.


    We never had to "import professionals" from council, or elsewhere, to volunteer with the units. We also never kept track of (or cared) if the volunteers were blue, or white, collared.


    Everyone has their own strengths (and weaknesses). We simply tried to use each volunteer where they were needed the most.


    As for that bilge about teachers, blue collar workers (business owners?), and your average parent, not having a brain for budgeting, or anything financial, that is just, well, bilge. An/or rampant snobbery and ego.


    If you can keep a family running in the black, with all bills paid, then you can manage to budget, forecast, and plan finances.



  16. In a Boy Scout Troop it is NOT the responsibility of the PARENTS to "pay attention". It is the responsibility of the Boy Scout.


    If you have 3-5 Scouts then you have an entire patrol. They will need to plan their own meals, do their own shopping, and provide their own transportation if there are not enough seats to go around.


    If it is only 1-2 Scouts then they are added to already existing patrols. They accept what ever menu has already been decided upon by their patrol. If more groceries are needed to make their portions they do the shopping for them. If there are no extra seats, they provide their own transportation.


    I would also consider charging more for the late comers. If you generally charge $10 for a campout, the charge for payment after the final date would be $15.

  17. There is no "wiggle room".


    Per BSA policy, all requirements must be completed EXACTLY as written. No additions, subtractions, or changes.


    For the Bird Study merit badge the Scout has to choose from three options -


    1) Build a bird feeder

    2) Build a birdbath

    3) Build a backyard sanctuary


    Notice none of the options state to build a bird house.

    The requirement specifically states - "Build a backyard sanctuary for birds by planting trees and shrubs for food and cover."


    If the Scout wanted to INCLUDE a birdhouse, or nesting box, as a PART of the sanctuary, that would be acceptable. However, a birdhouse on it's own? No.

  18. There is no "wiggle room".


    Per BSA policy, all requirements must be completed EXACTLY as written. No additions, subtractions, or changes.


    For the Bird Study merit badge the Scout has to choose from three options -


    1) Build a bird feeder

    2) Build a birdbath

    3) Build a backyard sanctuary


    Notice none of the options state to build a bird house.

  19. You state your problem is with the Cubmaster, yet you keep saying "they". Since "they" have been doing their own thing for the past 14 years now, with the approval of your Charter Organization (which is?), I doubt that anything will change any time soon.


    Even with you as the Pack's "voice".


    With only 5 Scouts in the Pack, and the CO firmly behind the CM, this is no longer a viable Scout unit.


    Find a good, new, Pack, and take the rest of the boys with you when you transfer. They all deserve a real Scouting experience.

    Your Charter Organization runs/owns your Pack. Councils will not step into the middle of a unit squabble.


    You might try contacting your District Commissioner, and asking for help talking with the CM, and the IH/COR/CC. The Dist Comm can't force them to change their ways, but he can at least try to talk some sense into them.

  20. You state your problem is with the Cubmaster, yet you keep saying "they". Since "they" have been doing their own thing for the past 14 years now, with the approval of your Charter Organization (which is?), I doubt that anything will change any time soon.


    Even with you as the Pack's "voice".


    With only 5 Scouts in the Pack, and the CO firmly behind the CM, this is no longer a viable Scout unit.


    Find a good, new, Pack, and take the rest of the boys with you when you transfer. They all deserve a real Scouting experience.

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