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Posts posted by ScoutNut

  1. We did both Show/Sell & Take Order.


    We would order enough popcorn at Show/Sell to cover most of Take Order also.


    Booth sales every weekend, Show & Deliver by boys in their neighborhoods, approaching local business owners to see if they would like to use $10 items as holiday gifts for their vendors, etc.


    For our council Show/Sell return, we would figure out what we needed to cover Take/Order, return what was not needed, and order any amounts we still needed.


    We would also often help our Troop fill in their Take/Orders with our left over Show/Sell.


    We had a suggested sales goal for each Scout that could be filled by personal sales, or by working Booth Sales. Boys making their goal received an Estes rocket kit (which were fired off at our Scouting Kick-Off picnic the following August). We also had out top 10 sellers toss a whipped cream "pie" at the leader of their choice at our December Holiday potluck dinner.


    It worked out well for us. We had merchandise in hand to sell, and could cover most of the boys individual orders early.


    We always made enough to fund our entire program for the year (which included the rockets, neckers, slides, handbooks, and.lots more.

  2. Family favorite - http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/alps/products/tents/camping-tents/taurus


    We have two of these in the 4-person variety from Scout Direct. They give our tall family (boys 6'4" - girls 5'10") room to move in. Son loves when he has one to himself!


    The full fly lets you bump into the sides without starting capillary leaks when it is raining, and lets you keep windows open for more ventilation. Also, love the vestibules! You can leave your muddy shoes outside where they will stay dry and protected.


    Made it thru a horrendous storm with near tornado like winds safe and dry.


  3. A Nature Center is a very specific place. It is a learning center with exhibits and usually a Naturalist on staff. Just being physically in a State Forest is not the same thing at all.


    Are poison ivy, and night shade ferns the only poisonous plants in your area? Your Scouts need to be able to recognize ALL of them, not just two.


    What about the other part of that requirement? Are there no venomous reptiles in your area at all?


    You will only have covered 3 of the 5 Forester requirements.


    Don't jam to much into one camping trip. Let the boys have fun and experience their first camp out.




  4. Please remember that cheaply made, and cheap price are often (but not always) the same.


    Coleman makes a decent tent. Coleman also offers discounts to members of non-profit groups.


    Scout Direct, an online branch of ALPS Mountaineering, offers good products, at deep discounts for Scouts.


    Things to keep in mind -

    Your tent must have a rain fly (I prefer full coverage to the ground).

    Make sure the floor wraps up the wall . Seams at the base of a wall tend to leak.

    Occupancy numbers for a tent should be reduced by at least 1 person (4 person is actually only good for 3 adults).


    Since you are taking the entire family camping with the Pack, I suggest you get a tent that will hold all 4 of you . If your kids are comfortable tenting on their own, you might consider getting two, 3-4-man tents. One for you, one for the kids.


  5. When a CC has to recruit a CM from outside of the Pack that raises a lot of red flags to me about that Pack.


    Then there is the fact that your Pack is losing their (current) Wolf leader, filling that position with a leader from a different den, and "recruiting" yet more adults from outside the Pack to fill leader positions.


    Other than you (and your GF), are there no Pack parents willing/able to step up?


    Again, why did your CC seek out this person, in particular, to recruit? What were his qualities (other than being a warm, available, body) that brought him to your CC's notice? Are CC and CM buddies?


    I would also be interested in what the CM's issues were with his old Pack. Especially considering the drama he is stirring up in his new one.


    It does not seem that he plays (or works) well with others.

  6. Just because it is not the "norm", does not make it wrong. I was Tiger Den Leader for 17+ years. My son was only in the Pack for 2 of those years (Webelos).


    It is not the Cubmasters job to "hire" or "fire" Pack leaders. That responsibility belongs to the Committee Chair and the Charter Organization Representative - only. The Cubmaster can recommend, but the responsibility for final approval is on the CC, and COR. It is their signatures on the volunteer applications.


    Bottom line - this CM can NOT "reshuffle", your GF, fire your GF, or hire his buddy - without CC, and COR approval.


    It seems that he has that approval.


    I would suggest your GF (not you) have an honest talk with the CC, and COR - together. There is more going on here then it seems.


    Off the top of my head, it might have something to do with you and GF planning on going on joint Webelos overnighters together. Or it might not. GF needs to have that discussion.


    Off topic, a bit - why did your Pack feel the need to recruit a Cubmaster from another Pack? What made your Pack want him specifically? Is your Pack that small that you could not recruit a CM from your own families?


    What is your Charter Organization? Is it a religious/community organization, or are you self-chartered (Parents of Pack 1234)?

  7. I will go out on a limb here and guess that you are talking about your District's evening Cub Scout Day Camp.


    1-2) Your Twilight Day Camp is put on by your District. It is mainly for those Cub Scouts residing IN your District. Therefore it makes sense for a District Day Camp to be held within District borders, in an area easily accessible to the Scouts in that District.


    A resident camp is a COUNCIL wide overnight camp held on COUNCIL property. Now that Council property might not be within the actual boundaries of the Council, but the property is OWNED by the Council.


    3) If your District Twilight Day Camp is usually held at Camp John Nichols, and the camp is going to be under construction next year, I do not understand your confusion. Camp John Nichols simply will not be available for Day Camp use next year. For ANY Day Camps.


    Your District will have to find another COUNCIL APPROVED facility, or not hold a Day Camp next year.


    We have a number of towns in our District. We are lucky that a few of them have excellent Park District facilities that they let us use for little to no cost for our District Day Camp.


    As stated by others, you are not restricted in what Day Camp you can attend. Find one in an area/time that works for your Pack, and attend that one.


  8. So ... how do you interact with youth who quit the BSA vs. youth of the same age who are members?

    I would say - Hi, how are you? How are your parents? Your brothers/sisters? Say hi to your parents from me. Bye!


    The only thing that I might do differently with a member of my BSA unit would be to add - Looking forward to seeing you at the upcoming XYZ activity!


    What changes in terms of your expectations? What stays the same?

    Why would I have any expectations at all for a youth who was not related to me? Beyond the normal, basic good manners that is?


    If you are a child's leader in any youth organization, I can see having certain - SPECIFIC - expectations - WITHIN that program. Outside of that program is another thing altogether. Also, why would I have any expectation that someone who is NOT a member of the youth organization would follow that organization's rules?


    That said, as I stated, I DO expect everyone I run into - anywhere - to behave with basic good manners.

  9. she controls the calendar and cancels or "forgets" to plan events.
    Event planning is the job of the entire Pack leadership, discussed at the monthly Pack Leaders Meeting. Specific events are planned/run by the event chair (NOT the CC).


    She is ineffective at getting parents to volunteer
    Make a list of specific people (do NOT include CC on the list) that you feel would be a good fit for specific jobs. Show, and discuss it, at your next Pack Leader's Meeting. If it is agreed upon, ask if it would be OK if you approached the folks personally.


    She makes unilateral decisions and then claims they were discussed.
    Find someone (NOT the CC) interested in being Secretary, and have them take notes at Pack Leader's Meetings so everyone is on the same page as to what is going on.


    She fails to complete tour permits for events.
    Find someone (NOT the CC) to be the Pack Outings chair. Filing tour/activity plans should be the responsibility of the outings chair, or the chair (NOT the CC) in charge of the specific activity. Tour/activity plans are not always necessary. Outing/event chair should contact your council for it's specific requirements (this might be why previous plans were not filed).


    Of course all of the above is based on the idea of having willing volunteers. Which you have said that you DO have. Start encouraging parents to volunteer, and your CC to take off some of her many hats!


    I know she will fight tooth and nail if we try to get rid of her. I need to know if it is possible before I go to the council.
    Your council will NOT, and I repeat - will NOT - interfere in what is basically a personnel problem within a unit. Unit volunteers are "hired", and "fired" by the Charter Organization which owns your unit. The Institutional Head of your Charter Organization, and/or your Charter Organization Representative, are the ONLY ones who can terminate the CC's volunteer position in the unit.


    The ONLY way that a council will step in is if the unit volunteer has done something criminal, or seriously against youth protection. Then they can/will strip the entire BSA membership from the individual. Once that happens they will be banned from ever registering as a member of the BSA in any capacity at all, anywhere. It does not seem to me that your CC falls into this category.


    Contact your District Commissioner, and see if he/she can help counsel your CC, and get her, and your Pack, running better.




  10. What - exactly - is it that your CC is NOT doing?


    A CC is not supposed to do the job of an entire Committee of volunteers (it seems Tampa's unit found that out the hard way).


    A bit more information is needed.

  11. Where is your Pack Committee Chair in this? Have you discussed your vision with your CC?


    Since you stated you have a small Pack and thus must have a combined Pack/Troop Committee, this screams lack of Cub parent support.


    In order to have a budget you need a treasurer. In order to do summer activities you need someone to plan, and run them.




    Since your Committee is combined - what does the Troop do for a budget? Or are they running on the seat of their pants also? With the SM on your side, you can approach the CC TOGETHER, and ask for some kind of plan to be put together for the upcoming year for BOTH units.


    Being as this is now June, putting together any Pack activities for this Summer is going to be difficult. Most summer camps have already finished registering. Most Pack families already have a good portion of their Summer planned. Your Pack is done meeting formally for the year so you can not present plans to the entire group at once. you will have to rely on e/snail mail.


    Find a Pack parent willing to take on planning one, cheap, fun, activity, for this summer. Plan it for July or Aug, so they have time to contact everyone in the Pack, and the Pack families have time to incorporate it in their schedule.


    One of our staple events was a Back To Scouting picnic in mid to late August. Find a picnic area by a playground, and/or a splash pool. Do this SOON as these picnic permits go FAST! Most municipalities will waive permit fees for Scouting groups. This is an easy activity because even if your family, and the family doing the planning, are the only ones who show up, it can still go on, and will still be fun!



    • Downvote 1

    I want my daughter to learn that men and women were designed by God to work as a team. I want her to learn that when parents choose to bring children into the world, both parents will be giving up a lot of their independence and personal goals in favor of family goals, and that's a trade off many find well worth it.


    I hope she might enjoy being a wife and mom someday instead of seeing it as a limitation and a burden.


    Interesting take on feminism in general, and how it should be "taught".


    Your type of "feminism" is not something that I would want ANY private youth organization (except possibly our specific religious organization) teaching my daughter.


    What your God wants, and a woman's "place" in a marriage, are things that I believe should be taught AT HOME. NOT at a Scout meeting.


    Where did you get the idea that GSUSA taught girls not to work as a team with any man, and taught them that being a wife and mother was limiting, and a burden? None of the many, many, GSUSA leaders in our area, both men and women, that I knew ever taught their girls anything even remotely similar to those concepts.


    My Lifetime Girl Scout daughter would like to get married some day - when she finds the right person. Loving the person you are married to is at the top of her marriage requirements. Next would be mutual respect. She would also love to be a mother. She, however is not "limiting" herself to only having children if/when she gets married. She has stated that she would be adopting children some day, if she was married or not.


    She also works well with BOTH men, AND women, as a team, and is well respected in her chosen profession as both a leader, and a team player.


    The girls in GSUSA Troops in my daughter's elementary, and high schools, grew into wonderful women. Many of whom are now happily married with children of their own!


    Drat that evil GSUSA!


  13. That said' date=' following the requirements to the letter ... "use the EDGE method to teach another [u']Scout[/u]" singular. Having a boy teach more than one scout can be a recipe for failure.


    That was my thought also. The requirement is to teach ONE Scout, one of several choices, so that that one Scout can get signed off on those requirements.


    Teaching one-on-one is much easier than teaching to a crowd. If one, out of all of the Scouts he was teaching, got signed off, the requirement is completed. Also, there is no time frame specified. It does not have to be a single, one time, one meeting, one hour, lesson. This Scout could have met with his one younger Scout everyday for a month to teach him the specific skills the Star Scout had decided on.


    Seems his ball was dropped by more than one Troop.

  14. GAmom - Not sure what kind of "feminism" you WOULD want your daughter "involved" with.


    However, while GSUSA (PLEASE folks - there is no such organization as GSA!) has it's faults - as does EVERY other organization out there, youth or adult - It is still the best youth organization for girls out there.


    It did not corrupt my daughter's morals, or turn her into some kind of scary GSUSA National automaton.


    My daughter is a Lifetime Girl Scout, who earned every religious medal available for her religion, and is now a wonderful young woman. She is confident in who she is and what she can do. She is not afraid to speak out, or step up. She gives back to her community and is proud to do so.


    And, she is not alone in this. All of the girls in Scouts with her in elementary thru high school, are now moral, self-confident, young women, putting their own, individual, stamp on this world.


    I am very proud of all of them, and proud to have had the privilege of being a part of their Scouting world, and watching them all grow into the fine adults they have become.


    You, GAmom, are however, free to feel as you do.


    As to the opening poster's premise -


    If, when my kids were little, and either BSA, or GSUSA, were completely co-ed, I would probably have enrolled them both in the same organization.


    At this point, there is little to no chance at all that GSUSA will make the changes the OP listed, or even consider them. However - if pigs could fly, dreams come true, and the impossible happen - first I would run out to buy the largest lottery ticket out there!. Then, I would enroll any grandkids I would have at the time in the program.


    For now, it is what it is - warts and all.

  15. Blanc,


    It's not "units" but "packs" 2 or more packs get together.




    page 9 of this document states. And let's remember, districts are part of the council, so if district committees are involved, that's council support.


    "Family camp is a council-organized overnight or longer event for Cub Scouts (including Webelos Scouts) and their families that involves more than one pack where the council provides the staffing and program. These events are often referred to as parent/pal, mom and me, or adventure weekends. Family camps for Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, or Sea Scouts may also be accredited upon application of the council."


    Here's the link.



    OK - First, a Pack IS a Scouting "unit".


    Second - the above link is to the National Camp Standards. THAT could very well be the problem here.


    To consider this a Council/District Family Camp Overnight, these standards would have to be met/followed.


    Have they in past years? Are they this year?


    Is there at LEAST anyone with National Camping School certification in charge of this event? In any way what so ever?


    So - deal with the fact that there will be no shooting sports at this year's event. Come up with some alternate activities. Move on, and make sure everyone has fun.


    Do a better job of organizing this for next year so that it IS a Council/District event.

    Contact your Council Programing Director, & your District/Council Commissioner. Have your COR reach out to your Council's SE.



  16. How do you figure they have to do Citizen again?


    Cubs are required to purchase a new handbook each year now. With the split between the Webelos and Arrow of light programs, they effectively become two different levels. Two completely separate awards. Unfortunately that means the 2nd year Webelos after June 1, 2015, will not have the option of using the old program requirements for AOL, and will have to purchase a new Webelos book to get their new Arrow of Light requirements.

  17. Why the competing events? Especially if they are similar, and Cub level?


    Was there not enough notice to all involved of the prospective dates for each event?


    Is it possible to combine events? Or move one to a different date?


    Is your event a fundraiser for your Pack (or any of the Packs involved)?


    How about an archery course instead?


    I would have a talk with your Council SE to see what can be worked out.


  18. If you stand up in front for a full meeting with "quiet sign" up, parents, and youth will just tune it, and you, out. It will not mean anything to them after the first few seconds.


    If you want to use the "quiet sign", and expect it to actually work, you need to get your point across.


    Run the meeting as usual. When the noise level goes up - STOP THE PROGRAM - completely. Go in front, and stand with your sign up. Do NOT say, or do, ANYTHING else. (Those on stage being disrespected are free to give their noisy audience the silent "death stare"!). Stay that way until the noise makers notice, and stop. When you have silence, thank them - then give the audience a SHORT lesson on respecting others. Be sure to mention that EVERY Scout would like to be respected when on stage - including THEIRS.


    If the noise level goes up - stop the program again.


    Be consistent, and you will not have to do this very much at all.


    Along with that - if siblings running amok is an ongoing problem, consider a separate sibling zone. Have a room, or even a separate area set aside for the young ones. Staff it with older siblings (Girl Scouts?), and a parent volunteer or two. Have QUIET activities for the little ones to do to keep occupied.



    • Downvote 1
  19. All of the above!


    Contact council about the money-earning application. What was it that you asked to be able to do? Start setting that in motion.


    Who is your CO? Do they have a visible, easily accessible, home building, with water/hose? A car wash can be fun for the Scouts, advertising for the Pack & CO, and can make you enough $$ to make it thru the year.


    Can your CO pitch in any money for THEIR Scout Pack?


    Come clean with your families, and ask for help for THEIR sons.


    3 Years! Good Grief! Where did you adults think the money to run a Pack was coming from? The Scout Fairy? You might want to ask his buddy, the Bill Paying Fairy, if he knows what he has been up up to!


    Sigh! Find someone with an actual head for math and finances, and make them your Treasurer.

  20. Our Pack would do a Spring Recruitment within our parish school. Our CM would do a "Boy Talk" to the kindergarten class, and invite them to our last Pack meeting of the school year. We would often get families that would come, and then wait until Fall to actually sign their Tigers up. For the most part, the Tigers we would sign up in May would be younger siblings of current Scouts.


    A Spring sign-up is only effective if your Pack has an active summer program. The new Tigers get a chance to get to know the other boys, and their families, in the Pack. They are also eligible to attend council Summer Camps.


    Blw2 is right - having an experienced, enthusiastic, Pack Scouter as Tiger Den Leader can make a HUGH difference. I stepped in as Tiger leader after we were told by all of our prospective Tiger families that they would only sign up if we already had a leader. I think the double whammy of 1) being required to attend with their son, and 2) one of you must be "in charge", was just a bit overwhelming for them.


    I was Tiger leader for our Pack for 14 years. It was great fun! We grew up a great bunch of Scouts, and cultivated a great bunch of Scout leaders!

  21. Keep two things in mind -

    1) Tigers is a learning experience for the Scouts AND their parents. In most cases the families are brand new to Scouting and everything that entails. Do as jblake47 suggests, and turn controversy into a chance for everyone to learn.


    2) YOUR way might not always be the BEST way either. Be open minded. Be flexible. Be fair.


    Also, remember to Include your Adult Partners in EVERYTHING that the Scouts do. The Tiger/AP are teams and should be treated as such.


    This dad might be a pain in the backside, but it certainly sounds like he is enthusiastic. Tap into that. If you can learn to get along, and work together, he might be a diamond in the rough, and just the assistant den leader you might need for your upcoming Scouting years!


    Good luck - and HAVE FUN!!

  22. While Chartering Organizations do "own" their units, they can not absorb/use any funds, or property, of those units for ANYTHING other than Scouting.


    From the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America -


    "All money raised by or received for the benefit of a unit or local council and all property acquired by a unit or local council shall be deemed to be received or acquired solely for the benefit of Scouting as interpreted and promoted by the Boy Scouts of America."


    "In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the Unit Committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations, and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the local council, if there is one, or if there is no local council, dispose of the same in accordance with the direction of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. In the case of a chartered organization, any funds or equipment which may have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organization or the chartered local council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America."

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