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Posts posted by ScoutNut

  1. Your son will be eligible to join a Troop as soon as he completes the requirements for his AOL. Part of those requirements is visiting Troops he would like to join. Talk to the Scoutmaster(s) about your son, and find out, working with the Troop's schedule, when the best time to cross over would be

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  2. The Scout leaders have been understanding. They know to gently touch him on the shoulder to get his attention if he appears not to hear something they've said. He's been ok in Cub Scouts so far.


    My concern is what is going to happen as he moves into the more boy-led Webelos and Boy Scouts. One boy in his pack just keeps yelling louder if he's trying to talk to my son from behind him or to the side. He can't get that my son is unable to understand what he is saying or even that the other boy is trying to talk to him.

    From your post it is unclear if your son, or you, have told his den, and the Pack, about his condition, and explained - clearly - what is involved. You say the den leader knows what is going on, but except for the few boys who have noticed him using the FM receiver in school, the boys do not seem to be aware there is a problem. The "yeller" certainly does not seem to understand.


    You, and your son, need to be up-front about what is wrong, and the adaptions that are needed.


    Once everyone is clear on your son's problem, and how best to communicate with him, there should not be a problem.


    I also do not think you have a clear grasp on what is involved in a Boy Scout Troop. Just because boy #1 (please, twit? you are an adult and this is a child) is his father's "Golden Boy", and the father is the Committee Chair of the Cub Scout Pack, he is not automatically destined to be your son's Patrol Leader.


    First of all, your son might not even be in the same patrol as this boy.


    Second, even if he is in the same patrol, Patrol Leaders are not appointed by the Pack's, or Troop's, CC, or any other adult. Patrol Leaders are elected by the boys in the patrol.


    Bottom line is that you can not wrap your son in bubble wrap, and protect him from the world. He needs to learn to deal with his disability, and stand up for himself. A boy-led Scout Troop seems like a great place for that to happen.



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  3. If you read thru the respective 990 forms you might have gleaned some hints as to why the head of the AGH was paid so much less -


    Revenue (income) - BSA $218,296,402 - GSUSA $105,217,626 - AHG $1,481,117


    Land/buildings/equipment (before depreciation) - BSA $188,990,946 - GSUSA $78,966,745 - AHG $20,197


    Total Assets - BSA $1,023,031,961 - GSUSA $186,228,734 - AHG $1,193,165


    Youth Served 2012 - BSA 3,250,663 - GSUSA 2,291,425 - AHG 26,268


    So to pat AHG on the back, and extol them for "making do", and being more fiscally responsible, is like comparing the local burger chain to McDonalds. There is just NO real comparison.


    For a good portion of it's life AHG was piggybacking on BSA for many of it's needs, like training, and camps.


    As for complaining that your District Executive (or whomever it actually was) did nothing to help when your PWD went belly-up, that is just down right silly.


    The track, and the computer, do not belong to the DE, or the council. They belong to the Charter Organization, and the Pack.


    The DE was not putting on the program. The Pack was.


    Why would you think that the council person would know anything at all about YOUR PWD track, and computer?


    It sounds like you had plenty of help, and expertise on your own. You did not need another inexperienced helper putting in their unknowledgeable 2 cents. Besides, if the council person had accidently made things worse because of his lack of knowledge, YOU would have been the FIRST to jump up, and down, on him for "ruining" YOUR Pinewood Derby! Personally, I don't blame him for not wanting to touch Pack equipment.

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  4. From the Tiger Cub Handbook - "Boys may do electives more than once and count them toward a Tiger Track bead each time they are completed."


    So, technically, the number of beads a Tiger could earn is unlimited.


    Which elective did your Tiger complete 480 times?

  5. Scout Nut I'm not sure where you get your misinformation, but it's way off. You would do well to remember the District and Council are merely 2nd line support for the Charter Orgs who own the program.
    Olld_OX you would do well to remember that the Charter Orgs "own" the rights to have a unit that uses BSA's program. In other words, a CO "owns" the unit - not the program.


    My "misinformation" came directly from BSA, the organization that DOES "own" the program.


    BSA's 2013 Guide to Advancement has an entire chapter on the Merit Badge Program. Here is a link to that chapter in the online version of the Guide -



  6. It is entirely possible to do a special ceremony to present rank awards every month. You simply have to pare down the theatre a bit to fit it into a smaller time slot. Again, the ceremony can be for only one Scout, it can be done per individual den for 1+ Scouts each, or (actually the way I prefer) you can do a combo ceremony for all Scouts, from all dens, who have earned their rank award that month. If you only have one Scout, you can do the rank award ceremony after awarding the den it's regular monthly den stuff. If you have multiple Scouts from different dens/levels, you can do the combo ceremony after all of the regular den awards are finished.


    We always had graduation as the theme of our last regular Pack meeting of the school year at the end of May. We would do a large ceremony moving each den of Scouts up to their new levels. This always included giving the Scouts their new neckers, slides, and handbooks. The rising 5th grade Webelos, since they did not get a new necker, or handbook, would get a new slide in the AOL theme, and a vittle kit.


    The boys love fun ceremonies. Just make sure to practice them a bit before you go "live" so you know that they will go smoothly, and can keep the pace up. Practice is especially important if you are doing any of the "magic" ceremonies (glowing, color changing, etc)

  7. Is this for awarding the current rank award? Or for graduating to their new Cub Scout level?


    Rank awards should be awarded when they are completed, not held up until everyone is finished.


    Graduation to the next level should occur at the end of the school year. BSA officially moves up all Cub Scout registrations to their next level as of June 1.


    That said, many of the following can be used for either type of ceremony. With appropriate tweaks, they can be used for either a single level, or multiple level ceremonies.


    If you can not find what you want here, simply do an internet search on Cub Scout Ceremonies.













  8. Let's think about how many POR's are available in a troop of 50 scouts. Assume they divide into 6 patrols. That means:

    6 PL

    6 APL

    1 SPL

    1 ASPL

    1 QM

    1 Librarian (If you got a lot of 1st class scouts, there are a lot of MB pamplets floating around!)

    1 Scribe

    1 Historian

    1 Guide

    1 Instructor

    5 Den chiefs (assuming there are 5 dens nearby who may need a little help)

    1 O/A Rep

    1 Webmaster

    1 LNT trainer

    2 JASM

    3 Crew officers (assuming that some of the boys are also in a venturing crew).

    1 Chaplains aide


    That's 34 positions without even coming up with special projects. The most qualified boys get those positions, period. How that is done is between the SM and SPL. Advancement needs ARE NEVER TO BE CONSIDERED. So, for example, if a tenderfoot is very good at tracking everyone's gear he may be QM even if he has no intention of ever advancing! Even so, in all likelihood you won't have more than 30 scouts "needing" a position for advancement.


    But if you do, what other projects can be assigned? I've heard of lot's:


    Popcorn Kernel/Fundraiser Coordinater

    Advancement Chair (who says an adult has to do it?)

    Auditor/Treasurers Assistant (ever wonder who's watching the treasurer?)

    Car Washer (all those drivers deserve to come home with clean vehicles).

    Medic (got a boy earning EMT?).





    You get the idea. Sometimes a boy is just not fitting the mold of an official position. But, he will do good work if you give him something that he's enthusiastic about. (E.g., we had a webmaster long before BSA had patch for it.) But what I've observed: if you give a boy a position just for the sake of advancement, his work will be slipshod at best.

    Just a note - Assistant Patrol Leader (APL) is not a POR that qualifies for advancement.
  9. ~~

    RE: ISA & 2014. Just so I have this right, ISA’s are illegal?


    No, ISA's are NOT "illegal".


    They appear to be in an IRS "grey zone", which depends largely on what the Pack's CO is, and how it is run.


    BSA has NOT "outlawed" ISA's. What they seem to be doing is starting (because they have not exactly come out and made a definitive, and obvious statement on the matter) to back off of ISA's. They have re-written a document or two to state that they do not recommend BSA units use ISA's.


    Personally, I see both the pluses, and the minuses involved. I rather like them for Boy Scouts, but not for Cub Scouts.



    RE: Participation. At the cub level, we have scouts who do not show up for any den meetings, pack meetings, scout activities helping the public or fundraisers. When it comes to awards ceremonies or the B&G, the parents call me at the last minute with a laundry list of everything done & expect to show up & have their scout recognized.


    From the 2013 Guide to Advancement -

    [h=3] Who Approves Cub Scout Advancement?[/h] A key responsibility for den leaders is to implement the core den meeting plans as outlined in the Den & PackMeeting Resource Guide, No. 34409. For the Bobcat trail and Tiger Cub achievements, parents (or adult partners) should sign in the boy's handbook; the den leader then approves as progress is recorded in the den's advancement record. For Wolf, Bear, and Webelos advancement, den leaders take the lead in approving requirements, though their assistants, and also parents who help at meetings, may be asked to play the role of"Akela" and assist. Parents sign for requirements that,according to meeting plans and instructions in the handbooks, take place at home.

    As you can see, the Wolf, and Bear programs have now come closer to the way the Webelos program has been run. Parents are no longer able to sign of on everything, regardless of what it is.


    If the Cub den leader has not approved the parents signing off on specific requirements, or has not approved the work done, the den leader can say - NO.


    However - first - the den leader should make every effort to communicate with the Scout, and his parents. To find out why they have not been attending meetings, if they are working on requirements, and how, and, in general try to get the Scouts back to the den meetings.


    Also, if the Scout never shows up to ANYTHING, the den leader, Cubmaster, and Committee Chair, should be communicating with the family to let them know that the child will be taken off of the Pack's active roster unless he starts to actually participate.



    RE: Lately it seems there has been an increase of extravagance at the B&G and other festivities. I would almost say over the top. The cost to participate is rising, despite the ISA. Parents and siblings can’t afford to attend.


    When families stop attending, and the Pack starts to lose money on these over the top activities, perhaps the CM, CC, and the Committee will start to re-think holding them. Until then, all you can do is to let them know what your opinion is.



    RE: Boy Scouts. We have some who are not very welcoming of parents who want to become a Boy Scout Leader or merit badge counselor. I was shocked to witness this recently. Since when do we ever turn away help?


    Some Boy Scout Troops are that way. Very insular, unwelcoming, and basically an Old Boy's Club of long time adults (mostly all male groups).


    It is part of what you should be looking at for a Troop for your son. Encourage him to check out other nearby Troops whose adults are better role models for their Scouts.



    I have attended every committee meeting, every parent meeting, worked with our cub masters and have brought these issues up. It seems to be getting worse. This weekend, I feel like quitting. It is a great program. I love it. I have been doing this many years. I just don’t like the direction we are heading in. I am very disheartened this weekend.


    First of all, unless your Cubmaster is also Scoutmaster, CC, or COR, for the Boy Scout Troop, your CM has nothing to do with, can can not change, the attitude of the Boy Scout leaders.


    Second - don't quit. You have invested lots of time, and effort, into this, and I am sure your boys appreciate it. What you SHOULD do , however, is to cut back on what you do. You are starting to burn out. Pick 1 role that you really love doing , and do ONLY that. Resign from all other positions, and let the Pack take them over.


    Relax, take a deep breath, and re-focus on what YOU enjoy to do in Scouting.



  10. I would definitely re-think this Troop for my son.


    The SM is allowing this guy to interfere with the boy's program.


    Worst of all he is allowing inappropriate "punishment" for things that do NOT call for punishment of any kind.


    And, the SM is defending his behavior by stating it is OK with the boys!


    Young boys, unaccustomed to stepping up, will be intimidated by this adult, and his behavior. They might feel that they can not speak up because he is an adult in a position of authority. They might be afraid of what else this man might do.


    I know I am.


    These boys are being bullied, and the SM is standing there allowing it.

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  11. Yes, we should be teaching our youth to do service for others without requiring reward.


    However, then why are we REQUIRING service hours?


    While not all service hours are service in a time of crisis, they are all a service to someone in need. Why is it OK to acknowledge some service, but not others.


    What makes it rude to ask for acknowledgment of service at a vigil, but not service to an 80 year old neighbor, or service to your local VFW at a recognition of deceased veterans?


    Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

  12. Interesting.


    We don't do council/district Tiger overnights - other than our weekend Summer Camps. Those include newly minted Tigers (just graduated kindergarteners), along with other Cubs.


    It looks like they will be sorting you into cabins based on your Pack, but not requiring you to register as a group? Is someone in your Pack organizing the families? Or are you going solo?


    Have fun!

  13. There's all kinds of bad information in play here.


    From the Scout's prospective:

    1. The scout goes to his Scoutmaster with a request to work on a Merit Badge.

    2. The scoutmaster assign's the Scout a Counselor.

    3. The Scoutmaster issues the Scout a Blue Card

    4. The scout presents to the Counselor with the Blue Card

    5. Following all Youth Protection Rules of BSA, and the Scout's Charter Organization, the scout works with the appointed Counselor until completion, or either party can't continue.

    6. Retaining his portion of the Blue Card the Counselor returns the remaining two updated portions of the Blue Card to the Scout

    7. The Scout Returns to his Scoutmaster who will verify the Blue Card is completed correctly, and in doing so be put on notice that the scout is no longer working with the Counselor.

    8. Retaining his portion of the Blue Card the scout delivers the remaining portion of the Blue Card to the Troop Advancement Chair.


    There are two flavors of Merit Badge Counselors: 1. Council 2. Unit


    The Council Counselor is registered in this position with the Council, has completed Merit Badge Counselor Orientation & Youth Protection Training, and has been approved for the specific merit badges in question by the Council AC. (The Council AC often delegates these duties and responsibilities to his District AC's).


    The Unit Counselor still needs to be registered as a Merit Badge Counselor, but has specified he wants to work with one unit only. He must still have: completed Merit Badge Counselor Orientation & Youth Protection Training, and have been approved for the specific merit badges in question by the Troop AC.(The Council AC can revoke the registration of Unit Counselors, but only does so in extreme cases)


    The Scoutmaster has ultimate authority on assignment of Scouts to Merit Badge Counselors, and his decision can't be overridden. However, the SM does not approve MB work, just the Counselor, and that only at the point of assignment.


    A Unit Advancement Chair can remove a Unit MB Counselor, but not reject a completed Merit Badge after the fact, just as a Scoutmaster cannot.


    I hope this clarifies things.

    A few corrections to the above -


    The Troop AC has no say at all in which merit badges a person can counsel. All merit badge counselors are registered thru, and approved by, their Council/District Advancement Committee. It is that committee that approves which specific merit badges the person can be a counselor for - even for those merit badge counselors that have decided to work with only one Troop.


    The SM does NOT have "ultimate authority on assignment of Scouts to Merit Badge Counselors". He CAN be "overridden". From the 2013 Guide To Advancement - Section -


    "Although it is the unit leader's responsibility to see that at least one merit badge counselor is identified from those approved and made available, the Scout may have one in mind with whom he would like to work. The unit leader and Scout should come to agreement as to who the counselor will be.Lacking agreement, THE SCOUT MUST BE ALLOWED TO WORK WITH THE COUNSELOR OF HIS CHOICE, so long as the counselor is registered and has been approved by the council advancement committee."


    A Unit Advancement Chair can NOT "remove a Unit MB Counselor". That can only be done by the Council/District Advancement Committee. A unit SM, and Advancement Chair, can discuss with a Scout which counselors are good/bad for a specific merit badge. They can even, in some specific cases, limit the number of badges a Scout can earn from a single MB counselor. However, a unit can not "remove" a counselor.

  14. It is possible that the girls in your church were registered as a multi-level Group (instead of single level Troops). That is the only way they could all have the same Troop number.


    However, typically, Groups are smaller, and usually spend at least some time in a joint meeting.


    The usual way is to give each Troop it's own, unique, Troop number.


  15. Sounds odd. Maybe he meant that he and members of the troop have counselors for every Eagle-required badge and lots of non-required ones. So, they don't muck about with a blue card system -- or registering their councilors with the BSA. Less paperwork for everyone involved.


    If I recall, my oldest brother's SM operated the same way. (This was back before blue-cards were in popular use.) Worked just fine until he achieved Life rank. Then SM moved away without a trace, and there was ZERO record of my brother's advancement, and no way form him to officially complete his Eagle requirements.


    My point is, there's no stopping an SM from doing things however he wants to do them, but there comes a point where what he does, although working fine for years, may wind up selling some boy short.


    That handbook you just got your boy -- it's his diary of scouting. As he earns an award, teach him to fill in the appropriate blank on the advancement section. Then, teach him to file away in a box or a binder the other paperwork that certifies he earned particular badges.


    Maybe you've heard that dogs love trucks? Well, boy scouts love paperwork!


    Regarding serving as a MBC to help some other boys in your district? Talk to the district commissioner.

    Wow - Just Wow.


    Find another Troop. This guy is doing his own program, not BSA's.


    As to a "database" of area Troops, you have access to one also.




    This is the BSA unit finder. Just go to "Boy Scouts", and plug in your zip code. It will give you a list of local Boy Scout Troops, as well as a map showing where most of the units in your greater area are.

  16. GSUSA (please - no such org as GSA) does not have Charter Organizations.


    All GSUSA Troops/Groups are "owned" by the local GSUSA Council. The Council's name is on everyone's checking account.


    GSUSA Troops/Groups are usually (but not always) created along school lines, with one volunteer working as a coordinator for the school/area. The volunteer would help to set up new Troops/Groups, vet/train leaders, and be a type of liaison to the local Council Service Unit (think BSA District). The leader of the older girl's Troop might be that local coordinator.


    If you, or your wife, wants to start a new Daisy Troop, I would suggest attending a meeting of the local Service Unit (think District Roundtable sort of). Talk to the Service Unit Manager (volunteer), and the Council Rep (paid professional think DE). You could also call your Council and talk to your Council Rep (they are as hard to nail down as a BSA DE!), and/or get contact info for your local Service Unit Manager.

  17. Hello, I'm a SM and Camping MBC for a relatively new troop. We worked on the camping I totally believe in the "nothing less and nothing more" policy, but I don't want to cut corners on a Eagle MB. I'm Inclined to approve his plan providing he gets his patrol to forgo their chuck box with dutch oven and plan and pack in trail meals and trail equipment since 7B & 8D requires him to pack in some of the patrol gear and his patrol agrees to eat a trail meal instead of car camp meal.


    p.s. this is the same scout that insists on email interviews instead of face to face or telephone interviews because the requirements do not say you can't.



    It seems that while you refuse to allow "nothing less", you are not opposed to adding something "more".


    If you follow the requirements - as they are written - you will not be "cutting corners".


    With ScoutNut 100% on this one.


    In addition to his comments, what does the boy's patrol have to do with his MB? MBs are an individual pursuit. It's one thing if the Scout wants to ask his patrol to help him by foregoing the gear, it's another for you to dictate it.


    The broader issue here is that MBs should not be interwoven into the troop program. You can, and I think should, keep MB opportunities in mind, but troop meetings and campouts are not merit badge school. Your dual roles, SM and MB Counselor, will recreate this sticky situation over and over again. Now that you've seen the potential mess early, leave it here. You be the SM, there are plenty of MB counselors.

    Only 1 of the 3 needs to be a trail meal. The other 2 can use a dutch oven, solar oven, campfire, or no oven at all. It is up to the SCOUT doing the merit badge.


    Yes, since he is cooking for his patrol, he should get their input on what they will, or will not, eat, however it is the SCOUT who should be making the decisions for his merit badge.


    For the Camping merit badge, his meal choices are based on the menu the SCOUT created for requirement 8-C :


    "Prepare a camp menu. Explain how the menu would differ from a menu for a backpacking or float trip. Give recipes and make a food list for your patrol. Plan two breakfasts, three lunches, and two suppers. Discuss how to protect your food against bad weather, animals, and contamination."


    Notice the part that states - "Explain how the menu would differ from a menu for a backpacking or float trip." This means that his menu can be all car camping, all the time, if that is what HE wants.


    Also - remember, nowhere does it state that the "trail meal" is REQUIRED to be cooked and eaten, on a backpack trip, or on any trail, anywhere. It simply states it must be a trail meal using a lightweight stove. The Scout can set the lightweight stove up in the CO's parking lot and cook the trail meal for his patrol there if necessary. Is it the preferred way? Of course not. However, it is NOT against the rules.

  18. Acema606


    I am the Committee Chair for a cub scout pack we started in Sept/Oct. The pack in this area had tried and failed at least 2 times previously that I know of. I have never been involved in any organization, much less been a Chairperson. I am looking for some advice on what my role/restrictions are. I have a committee member that is putting her fingers into everone elses position. Its to the point that my treasurer has given her resignation. I have tried contacting my BSA rep, but he isn't responding. I really just need some guidance on how to handle this situation and what my role is.



    Have you taken the training for your position yet? As Committee Chair (CC) it might help give you perspective if you also took the online trainings for the other Cub Scout positions.


    The committee member with the itchy fingers, what is her exact position? What, exactly, did she do to cause your Treasurer to resign?


    What is your Charter Organization (CO)? How close are you to the head of the CO? To the Charter Organization Representative (COR) ?

  19. Interesting. It must be required by your District, or council, it is not required by BSA National.


    So - which do you plan on wearing? Commissioner necker, or Boy Scout bolo?


    Personally, I am not a big bolo fan. I like personalized woggles/slides, so, if pressed, and although I think the red neckers are a bit small, I would opt for the necker.

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