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Posts posted by ScoutNut

  1. Scoutnut, I hope you had the should length rubber glove for that last one.



    717 is NOT earning or raising money. His boys are participating in the race. Geezus,


    I think you missed your meds this morning.


    Good grief! Can you never make a post without taking a rude jab at someone?


    Off your meds indeed.


    FYI - Yes, simply paying the registration fee to run in a "Race for the Cure" 5k is not fundraising in itself. However, every registrant gets their own fundraising website. A team gets, along with all of the individual websites, a team fundraising website. There are competitions, and awards for teams raising the most money. Every participant is "expected" (however not required) to solicit donations as the registration fee covers the costs involved in operating the race - only. None of those fees (or very little) goes toward the actual research.


    There are also some races that DO require fundraising over, and above, the cost of registration. The reason being, as stated above, registration costs do not actually help fund the research. Fundraising donations do.


    It was requested that I post sources. I did that.


    As I stated, there is a difference between participating as an individual, or with a non-Scouting team, and participating as a BSA team.


    If there is any question about a UNIT activity, it should be run by the local council. Anything that has BSA's name attached to it they can get mighty particular about.





  2. From the BSA "Guide to Unit Money-Earning Projects" -


    The BSA Rules and Regulations state, “Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for their chartered organizations, for the local council, or in support of other organizations. Adult and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money in support of personal or unit participation in local, national, or international events.â€Â


    For example: Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts and leaders should not identify themselves as Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts or as a troop/pack participate in The Salvation Army’s Christmas Bell Ringing program. This would be raising money for another organization. At no time are units permitted to solicit contributions for unit programs.


    From the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America - Article IX - Section 2 - Clause 1 -


    With the consent of the local council, members of the Boy Scouts of America may cooperate with established nonpartisan and nonsectarian national movements for the relief of humanity in undertakings to raise money by giving personal service, provided, however, that this shall not involve the use of BSA youth members as collectors or solicitors of money.


    If you want clarification, or approval for your unit's specific activity, I suggest you contact your local council.



  3. A breast joke MAYBE in bad taste but immoral? NO!

    If you are so upset next year have the troop run as a troop and you volunteer to run and lead the event.


    Sorry - NO.


    BSA specifically prohibits their units from raising funds for any outside organizations.


    That is why the Troop can assist the runners - but NOT run as a Troop team.


    The ASM, and the Scouts on his team, were on their own time. They were not participating as Scouts. Did it ever occur to you that it might have been personal for both the ASM, and the Scouts involved? They might have all had a loved one touched by breast cancer. Personally, I would not blink at wearing a "racy" shirt if it helped to keep others loved ones from experiencing that particular horror.


    What you and your son conceive of as "morally straight" is not a universal definition that is, or should be, held by everyone.


    Bad taste, perhaps, I was not there, and did not see them. However, decrying it as not "morally straight" is, in my opinion, going overboard a bit.


    As for the smoking, TAHAWK posted BSA's stance on that -


    Adult leaders should support the attitude that they, as well as youths, are better off without tobacco in any form and may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants.

    All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants.


    BSA gets rather particular with its wording. The word "may" is used when the units have a choice in the matter. The word "must" is used when they do not.


    Notice, BSA specifically states that you can smoke, but it should be done in a place located AWAY from the Scouting activity itself.


    Nothing to do about the shirts, but if the SM is smoking at Scout activities, in front of Scouts, I recommend talking first to the SM in a friendly, non-confrontational way. If that does not work, then go to the Committee Chair, or Charter Organization Rep with your concerns.


  4. Cub Scouts are age - OR - grade based. He can stay with his classmates in Bears, and beyond..


    He will have no problem registering in Cub Scouts down the line as the ending of Cub Scouts is 11.5 years old - OR - the end of 5th grade - which ever is LATER.


    The only thing he will need to understand is that Boy Scouts is strictly age based. He will be done with Boy Scouts at 18 years of age - period. If he wants to go for his Eagle rank, he will need to keep that in mind. However, it should not present much, if any, of a problem to him.

  5. Wow, I would not have looked away - at all. I would have looked him straight in the eye for his entire rant, than calmly, and clearly, stated - That was the most incredible demonstration of rudeness, not to mention unscoutlike behavior, that I have ever encountered. I believe you owe everyone here, especially me, an apology.


    You need to talk to your Cubmaster & Committee Chair. That should have happened after the first incident with this man, it is a necessity now.


    I suggest getting one of the parents who witnessed the incident to go with you.


    Keep in mind that while it is encouraged that a parent attend camp with their Webelos, it is not required.


    Good Luck!


  6. The Cubs can work on everything - Bobcat - Wolf Achievements - Wolf Electives - all at the same time.


    The boys can not be AWARDED their Wolf badge until AFTER they have been awarded their Bobcat. They also can not be AWARDED any Elective beads until after they have been awarded their Wolf badge.


    Usually the scenario goes like this - At the 1st/2nd Pack meeting of the school year (Sept/Oct) new Cubs are awarded their Bobcat badge. After receiving their Bobcat, they are then immediately awarded their Progress Toward Ranks emblem, and any Achievement beads earned so far. When the Cub has completed all of the Achievements needed, he is awarded his rank award (Wolf in your case). Immediately after presenting him his rank award, he is awarded all Elective beads he has earned to date. He continues to earn, and be presented, Elective beads until the end of the school year.


    At the end of the school year he graduates up to the next Cub level (Bear for your guys).


    Bobcat requirements are easy enough to include (and should always be included) in every den meeting.


    The Cub Scout Sign should be used all of the time to get the attention of your den. To signal the start of a new activity.


    The Promise, Law, and Salute, can be used at every den opening ceremony. The Motto, and Handshake can also be used during openings, however, I prefered using them as part of the den closing ceremony.


    The meaning of Webelos can be discussed at your first den meaning. It might be interesting to see how many of your Scouts remember what it means!


    Repetition helps everyone (all leaders and Scouts) to remember.


    The only Bobcat Achievement that you will have to wait on is the parent sign off on the child protection booklet. Some parents are VERY reluctant to discuss these things with their children - unfortunately.

  7. Personally, I think you are going overboard with the "PC" language.


    Chairman, although often referring to a male, is a generic term referring to the person (of either sex) in charge of a meeting, event, committee, department, or organization.


    If, for some strange reason, you are afraid that she will think you are calling her a male, and prefer referring to her as a piece of furniture instead, then order the position patch directly from BSA Supply -





  8. Since they have already allowed a male Venturer in the aquatics area, they have set a precedence for accepting them.


    How much more effective would the male be than the female? Does the female have any knowledge, or experience, in the subject she is being expected to teach? How does the female feel about teaching a subject she knows nothing about? How does she feel about a male, with more knowledge, teaching the subject?


    How about having them teach it together?


    GSUSA is not about male vs female.


    I think it would be a great example to show how to utilize your strengths and work together.

  9. When we were able to actually make a quick presentation to the Webelos parents, they were not even aware there was a boy scout troop in our town- even though we meet in the same building on the same night!


    They were told straight out that there was no boy scout troop in town and that is why they sent their kids to a troop in a different town. Our committee member interrupted at that point and clarified that the troop had been in continuous operation for over 70 years which left everyone speechless apparently.


    This struck me as the main problem.


    After 70 YEARS -


    None of the families in your town, with Scout aged children, know that your Troop exists.


    You meet at the same time/place as the Cub Scout Pack yet none of the families even know your Troop exists.


    How/why is that? Boy Scouts is not a secret organization. What kind of community service, if any, are you doing? How do you advertise your presence in the community (both Scouting, and local)?


    How can their Cub Scouts, pass your Boy Scouts, in/around the building you both use, and still be ignorant of the Troop's existence?


    Who is your Charter Organization? Since you share facilities with the Cub Pack, do you also share a Charter Organization? Do you know who your Charter Organization Representative (COR) is?


    It seems that the problem is NOT just with "lies" being told to Pack families.


    You need to work - HARD - at repairing / creating the face your Troop shows to the world at large.


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    Wow, really? I wonder what new Leadership lessons he learned in his third year in the same POR?

    Just because a Scout is doing a job does not automatically mean he is doing it for advancement purposes only.


    My son was a Den Chief for 7 years - 6th thru 12th grades. He brought 1 den from Tiger into Scout (all of those boys crossed to the Troop), and worked with a number of others.


    He did not get ANY of that time recorded for a POR, however, he did learn a LOT about leadership.

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  11. BALOO is required for camping as a Pack.


    For Webelos camping alone as a den there is no outdoor training that is required by BSA National. Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders is highly recommended, but not required by BSA National.


    Check with your local council to verify what their requirements are. Local councils are allowed to have stricter policies.

  12. Biggest thing to remember - the Tiger and his partner are a TEAM. They should be doing EVERYTHING TOGETHER!! No sitting on the sidelines chatting allowed. You don't have just 6 Tiger Cubs - you have 12!


    You need to plan things with that in mind.


    Next is that you need to utilize the Tiger concept of Shared Leadership.


    This is where the future of your Pack is. You must nurture, and grow it. This is your chance to teach these families what Scouting is all about. To get them "hooked", and involved.


    Incorporate the Bobcat items into your regular weekly den format and the Tiger Teams will get them without actually knowing they are.


    I started every meeting with a flag ceremony that included the Salute, Promise, Law, and Handshake (all done with their Partner!). Meetings were always ended with everyone (including any siblings and visitors) participating in a Living Circle while stating the Motto (with GUSTO!).


    I used my first meeting, or two, as a type of intro to Scouting. We talked about the den, and the Pack, and what they could expect in the coming year.


    I also had them do a "Tiger Tales" scrapbook the first meeting (achievement 1-D). With school supplies on sale it was easy to get blue, or orange, 3-prong pocket folders cheap. This gives them a place to store their Handbook, and any Scout stuff.


    As a first thing to add to their scrapbook, and a way to get to know each other, I liked to use this "All About Me" coloring page from Crayola -



    I would give one to all Tigers and Partners. They were to draw themselves, and include something that represented their favorite activity/hobby. Then we would go around and have everyone show their picture, introduce themselves, and tell us a bit about themselves, and their hobby (elective 16).


    When you plan your meetings, remember to be flexible - with your Teams, and your program. Have some quick/easy alternate activities in your back pocket at all times. The electives can be great for that.


    Mix up your meetings. Don't do an entire meeting sitting at a table. Get up and move. Start out slow, throw in a song, or a game, go back to something a bit more "teachy", then throw in another game/song. Remember a 1st grader's attention span is VERY short, and their adults is not much better!


    Some places to go for ideas -














    One last thing to remember - Tiger Cubs are G-R-R-R-R-R-E-A-T !!!!!! (hint - this makes a wonderful den yell - Tiger Teams sure do like getting LOUD!)

  13. So, your monthly Pack Leaders meeting is just for planning events? Is that the only Pack Leaders meeting you have, or is this a second meeting that you are talking about that you want the den leaders to attend?


    If this is a second monthly meeting that you are talking about, I can see why attendance has evaporated. There is only so much "spare" time to go around. The only folks that need to be attending the event planning meetings should be the folks in charge of the specific events being discussed.


    A monthly Pack Leaders meeting should cover more than just planning events. It should include, first, and foremost, discussion about the monthly Pack meetings. Roses/Thorns about the previous month's Pack meeting, and then what is happening at the next Pack meeting. That would include awards, and what each leader/den is responsible for.There should also be a bit of advance planning for any upcoming Pack meetings that might need it.


    Then there should be a discussion on what the individual dens are planning for the upcoming month, and if they require any assistance.


    Next up would be where Pack-wide special events are discussed. The folks running the events would report on progress, and request help. Prospective new activities could also be discussed at this time.


    Financial matters, and other business discussions should also be a part of a monthly Pack Leaders meeting.


    Require that a representative from each den (does not have to be a leader) be at each Pack Leaders meeting to insure that the needs of the den do not get overlooked.


    In other words - no extra meetings. Make better use of your time at your monthly Pack Leaders meeting.

  14. Dens are the building blocks of patrols and should learn to camp and function cooperatively.

    Webelos dens, yes. Not Tiger/Wolf/Bear. Webelos dens should also be camping on their own to help prepare them for Boy Scouts.


    Pack camping is family camping - for the entire Pack, Tiger thru Webelos. It is a great opportunity for the entire Pack family to get to know each other, become closer, and share the vision of Scouting. That is how you get adults committed to helping "their" Pack.

  15. Our Pack paid for most of the food. We usually asked each family to bring one dish to share.


    We made sure to find out if there were any allergies/problems before setting the menu, and purchasing the food.


    The menu was known/shared in advance with those attending. They were free to bring their own if they had a problem. No one ever did.


    We provided cracker barrel munchies for Friday evening, breakfast, lunch, dinner on Saturday,and breakfast on Sunday.


    We always cooked, and ate, as a group. Felt it was more fun that way, and helped families to get to know each other.

  16. What Calico said!


    My first reaction on reading the original post was - So,they are punishing a Scout for the failure of the Troop?! How could you possibly expect this boy to do a job when you did not give him the tools to do it???


    Yeah, this boy's family is wacko (I notice you blame the child for THAT as well!), but, in my opinion, your Troop is not a whole lot better.

  17. Among other things (I didn't ask about anything else)' date=' my son (and all the other boys) did not build an ecosystem in a bottle. The blue card was signed, though. :([/quote']


    Were there any do before camp prereq's for this badge?


    While this seems like a lot of work for only one week at camp, I do have to agree with Sid, there is no requirement in the Environmental Science merit badge to build an ecosystem, in a bottle or anywhere else.


    There are a lot of activity choices with this badge, none of them include building anything.


    Why not simply ask your son how he liked working on the badge. Ask him what he did in each category, and if he would be interested in learning more about any of them.

  18. So in an hour a week and 40 hours once a month, I am supposed to undo what is currently socially norms/acceptable behaviors. Turn on the TV or facebook and look at acceptable behavior.



    Your a bit out of touch sir.


    No, I am NOT "out of touch". I have one son, and one daughter, and if either acted out of line they heard about it from me. My son would never treat a girl "like a tramp". No matter what she was wearing. He knows better.


    No one is telling you to "undo" what they are, obviously, taught at home.


    What I AM saying is that, as a Scout Leader, you are a ROLE MODEL. You should be a GOOD one. The mission of the BSA and it's Scout Leaders, is to "prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes".


    Bad behavior is bad behavior. Just because the kids (and obviously you) accept it as the "norm" does not make it right. The only way to help these kids learn that it is NOT right is to make it CLEAR to them that their ROLE MODEL (whom one hopes they have at least a teeny tiny bit of respect for) does NOT think it is acceptable behavior.


    Telling your Scouts, or even implicating that you agree with the notion, that because the girls are wearing short shorts they are "tramps", and deserve to be treated with disrespect, is unscoutlike at the least, and extremely offensive.


    And - to be clear - I do NOT think that short shorts, and skimpy tops, are appropriate attire for camping - anywhere.


    I also think that ALL participants in the after hour meet-ups should have been sent home.


    BOTH the girls AND the boys - and the adults - all shared equally in the blame for what happened.

  19. However' date=' this attitude is absolutely disgusting. While I may agree with you about keeping boys and girls separated for various reason, to suggest that these girls are tramps because of how they dress is vulgar at best. Boys can't control themselves, so we should cover the girls up? Are you kidding me? Alcoholics can't control themselves, so should we reinstate prohibition? We SHOULD be teaching our boys respect, and self discipline. Giving boys a pass to act like rude, nasty little people because they can't possibly control themselves with all those hormones raging? Give me a break. [/quote']


    I totally agree.


    The first thing that came to my mind was - so, since the girls dressed like "tramps", and deserved to be treated like "tramps", then if one of the hormonal boys got carried away it would be all the girls fault?


    That kind of thinking is why rape victims are so reluctant to come forward..


    Stop making it everyone elses fault! Teach your "hormonal" youth to respect PEOPLE - no matter WHAT they are wearing.


    Good grief - you all let a teachable moment turn into something VERY UGLY! But, you sure taught those boys how to treat girls/women didn't you.


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  20. The council could care less about your books - they have enough to do balancing their own!


    The CO is in charge of the unit's funds, not the council. At least as long as there is a BSA unit chartered with the CO.


    The only time the council MIGHT show a bit of interest is if the money was not spent on Scouting. All money/items received in the name of Scouting MUST be used/spent on Scouting.


    Has your "To Much Time On His Hands" COR made any personal purchases with Troop money lately?


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