Scoutfish

None of our committee members wear unifoms. They don't even wear hats or polo type shirts with any emblem or logo on them. They wear jeans, t shirts, shorts, flip flops , and one even wears spandex all the time( female , okay? ) Our COR, does wear a Australian type mesh hat with a BSA emblem on it, but everything else is just normal clothes. Our CC wears clean clothes when making announcements at a pack meeting, and sometimesa pack sweatshirt if it's chilly out, but that's it! Funny thing is........nobody cares. We leaders war our uniforms as much as possible, but occasionally, a DL come to a pack or den meetuing straight from work and doesn't have time to put on a uniform. I can't say the kids care. Nor does the den meeting crash. We try to wear our uniforms as much as possible. But we know it's not the end of the world if we don't.. Knots? If I have earned them, I'm gonna wear them. But knots are not the reason I am here , nor are they my main focus. As of right now, I do not have any knots, but I happen to be very, very close to earning one right now JUST by doing what I would be doing anyways even if knots didn't exist!

Funny thing about ideas..lamebrained and all. It all depends on who's ifdea it is and from what angle you view it. I remember reading about a guy with alame brin idea once. His name was Christopher Columbus. Another twop lame brains were the Wright Brothers. Now it's just as common for somebody to fly around the world in a jet as breath air. I've seen people stick with and pursue "lame Brain ideas" and end up with spectacular results that changed the way alot of people think and feel. To many of us are just against doing something different for the sake of it being different!

I am by no means trying to sound like a 20 year veteran of Scouting , nor do I want to appear to be some sort of upper scale elite class of snob........BUT If anybody thinks wearing a uniform or wearing a knot makes or breaks your program...... then it's time you stop blaming the uniform for your problems and start looking at other things.

I think it'sa great idea! One thing I would do though, as part of the demo is point out the small simple things that make a big difference like" tarps under a tent. alot of people do not know or do this; Additional tarps for rain flys. Yeah, alot of tents come with them, but they are a joke at best. Bring a decent size door mat to help slow down sand from getting into tents and eventually, sleeping bags. BIG ONE: Tell campers that even if they use camp cots, they need sleeping bags as the underside of their bodies will not be insulated ( if cool/cold weather) This type of info( I am sure you have plenty to add to it) will make a big difference to many parents and scouts who may be camping for the first time. It may be the difference between a second time or not. I am planning on a very short cooking demo at our next pack meeting myself. But we hold the pack meetings inside the sanctuary of our CO. To much complication to move everybody outseide fora 10 minute demo, so I am going to bring a Coleman fold-up propane cookstove. For my demo, the source of the heat isn't really the point so much as the cooking part. But I am completely on board with the idea of a demo during a pack meeting as you can target EVERYBODY including the parents at one time. Besides, it changes up the same old pack meeting routine too!

In regards to the OP, Our Council camp does something awesome during resident camp: The Tigers through Bears have their activities all lined up.They are all camped at Camp McNeill( Cub scout camp) The Webelos csamp at McNeill, but walk over to Camp Bowers( abutted Boy Scout camp) for Webelos activities and dining. Incidentally, the food for the cub camp is cooked at the Boy camp and trucked over to the "warmer kitchen" at the Cub camp dining hall. After the day activities are done, the Webelos walk back over to the Cub Camop and participate/watch/ experience the campfire program, trading post, ceremonies, etc.. The Webelos then camp at the Cub camp. So what does this do beside create a bunch of walking? It creates a cool environment for the Webelos who don't want to do "baby" activities with the other Cub Scouts. They are not actually doing any Boy Scout level activities, but feel more special because they are doimng Webelos activities at a Bot Scout camp. Kinda like a big ole placebo, but with a bunch of walking!

While I cannot be sure of your specific situation, we saw similar isues that lasted weeks trhe first time, and occasionally pops up right now: People wre ( and still are) trying to get YP before turning in applications and recharter, Last summer, BSA said we had , as leaders , to have YPT or would not be registered as leadership. We could not be leaders, so a bunch of leaders who had not taken it - as well as some who had taken it , but were not listed or recorded in councils. The sudden rush and high demand of people trying to get online and take it was causing server overcrowding and shutdowns. . I retook mine "just in case" any glitches were going to happen. Couldn't do a thing in the afternoons or nights, but had no issues around 6 am. Told all my leaders and the same thing: they had no problems in the early am because hardly anybody was online then. Right now, a huge whopping bunch of leaders are having to take or retake ( sometimes due to glitches) YPT in order to keep from being dropped from recharter by the BSA.

Now, having said what I said...there is one great thing about LNT: You ever see the warning labels on a hair dryer trhat tell you not to use it while taking a shower? That label is there to prevent lawsuits by the idiots that WOULD use the hairdryer while in the shower. ANd it is there because somewhere, somebody did it! Those fine folks need LNT exactly the way it is presented!

I'm kinda fighting with myself over an idea for a pack meeting demonstration. Well, wait. Let me rephrase that. I have an idea for something that would take ONLY 10 minutes ( 2 1/2 to prep, 7 1/2 to cook) to show, and I'm thinking of doing it at a pack meeting in order to show everybody at one time. Not sure if you remember the post I did about bag omlettes, but we have enjoyed them quite alot at my house. My wife, son and I eat them at least once every wekend. We do it inside on the stove, but still, the principle of the idea is eactly the same. So maybe some other parents would like to learn about and do this too? And truth be told, the scouts could do it themselves up to the point of the boiling water - at which time mom or dad could assit or at the very least, supervise. Now, the thing is, Like I said< this can be done at home exactly like when camping: stil no mess , no cleanup. But I don't want to wait a 3 or 4 months at our next campout to show this. Den meetings are too disassembled ( each den in a different room) and already have plans and agendas. So while this may or may not be the usual Pack meeting fare, it will reach the target crowd and it also mixes things up from the usual routine. So, I am open to your thoughts.

Rollie, Funny thing: Sometimes I have a way that I would handle things. I have formed opinions, thoughts and routines that are based on doing. But every now and then, somebody will bring up a familiar situation, and somebody else will say something that makes me see the entire subject in a whole new light. That is a priceless experience!

Well, it is one of those situations where, in my mind, I was thinking of a certain scenerios, but somehow..forgot that you can't see into my mind. In my example, I was thinking of free time during Cub Scout camp out. You know: 65 kids running around ablivious to therest of the world around them - typical kid stuff. So a couple of boys are only focussing on themselves and nothing else. They are running around and one of them plows into another scout who is also unaware of anything not connected to him. They crash and it's just a case of bumping into each other. Although my son is no more at fault than the other scout and it wasn't intentional. I'd expect him to say "Sorry about that." if for no other reason that to just be courteous and show that there was no hard feelings. But say, if another scout was horseplaying to a harsher degree and was having fun PURPOSELY tripping other scouts, I would not realistically expect my son ( or any other scout)to apologize if my son inadvertently knocked him over while being tripped.If my son was that instigator, I wouldn't expect anybody to apologize to him. Why? Because same situation with me or you..damned if we would apologize to the guy who tripped us purposely! So I would not expect my son to feel any different than me. And while the subject is brought up.....Am I the only one who has noticed an incredible amount of kids who run around while looking in any direction except the one in which they are running? It's like they are looking at where they were instead of where they are going!

Well, I have to wonder, while on the topic of psychadelic orange tents versus camo tents, which is actually apt to harm somebody. As scouts, we probabluy have a better than anybody else chane to be as least harfull as we can. But what if one of the non scouting, tree hopping, dirt flinging idioys ona dune buggy of other ATV is flying through the woods. At least he will see the orange tent that could possibly have a scout in it, before he sees the camo one...if he even sees the camo tent before tearing through/ into it. Maybe that bright orange, red, blue or white tent may make a deer or other anumal less likely to approach camp. Maybe enough to keep a coyote or bear away. And at the very least, stands out if in front of the sights of a hunter's rifle ( including the illegal ones who don't stick inside particular areas or outside of others. Now, truth be told, EVERYTHING we do impacts the natural environ ment. practice LNT all you want, you stillleave behind your scent and the scent of the food , supplies, cooking fuel, etc...behind. Anuimals smell and sense this. They either will avod those areas or eventually no longer be afraid of us or our smell. 8 scouts camping over a weekend most likely has less impact on the evironment than a spring/fall migration weekend of elk, der. moose, etc. But a whole Jambo in the forest would be havoc on the land that may take a couple yrs to mend. But then as a firefighter, I have seen how destruction and new birth are partners hand in hand. Sometimes, what looks like a beautiful forest, is actually a ecosystem on the brink of collapse. And whatappears to be disaster is actually just what the doctor orderd. Forest fires do kill majestic trees, but also burn out the dead, diseased trees as wel as cull back dying, diseased and deformed animals, thus keeping only the healthy stock in the breeding pool. Sometimes that medicine is from nature in the form of a ligfhtning strike. Sometimes a careless idiot with a smoking habit and no common sense. You ever see an old fire pit with a tree growing out of it? I have seen three at an older section of a camp we used to use. Turns out the dead wood colected by scouts makes a nice fertilizer when the ash left behind mixes with the dirt and is blended over time by rain. A pinecone, a seed spor or something else in the dirt or ashes suddenly begins a new life. And out of the three, two were bigger than the surrounding trees and healthier looking too. Footprints in the dirt often support the greenest grass by pooling and collecting what limited water there is in dry times. Thew problem with LNT is the same problem with most things: Man tries to put specific parameters and limitations where nature and life discard them. We are trying to make absolutes in a world where absolutes cannot function.

KUDU, Seattle only points out a small, simple but major flaw in your arguement. You yourself are saying that anything outside of The Congressional Charter is in fact, breaking a law or at the least, the charter. But ScoutCraft...which you majorly support was added after the charter, by BP himself. Thus, using the logic you have said so many times about things created after the charter was written being wrong or against the charter...then ScoutCraft would also be wrong. Kinda a catch 22 don't you think? Post charter is WRONG! But Scoutcraft( which you support) is post charter. So it's like this: Either post charter is wrong or it's okay. But it cannot be absolutely wrong .....except if you like it. So the question that is on so many minds is this: Is Scoutcraft wrong because it is post charter, or is it possible that BP ( in the same manner as the Constitution and the Founding Father) intended that the charter be able to be modified as necessary and it just ends up that you personally don't agree with the current plan. Now, realize that I am not saying the new stuff is better, equal to, or worse than what used to be. I do not know as I wasnot a part of it. But I do know that your argument is not holding up. And when you asked Seattle about Macuzza: " The Chief Scout Executive seeks to keep 12 year-old Boy Scouts out of tents. Why do you admire that? " You obviously misunderstood him as he never said he admired the chief, only that by supporting Scoutcraft, you ( like Macuzza) picked some post charter things to support and stand by. Again, I am not supporting pre or post charter, But seriously, you are argueing against yourself, not Seattle.

Like I said..it depends on the particulars of the situation. And I'll bet they are never the same. Supposemy son is horsing around, not paying attention and knocks down a younger cub scout. Maybe bump a table and spills adrink or something. I'll point out to my son, what he did, and tell him he needs to apologize to the younger scout. Actually, younger/older doesn't matter here. Not sure what that part was about. Anyways, it's pretty obvious that my son didn't INTENTIONALLy knock the scout or drinjk over. The apology is more of a good manners thing/Falls along the lines of opps, sorry,thank you, etc.... But at the same time, reversing the situation, I don't expect an apology from another person if I know it was an accident. Obviously, if it was an accident, then it wasn't meant to be malicious or mean spirited. If it was done with malace...I won't put any merit to the apology. Now, as a side note, I mayself have a different view on this kind of stuff. I have always felt that people who are so offended and will stop to no end to demand an apology - actually are not wanting an apology . In fact,it is as was said earlier - a power trip. My view on it is this: Being offended is a matter of choice and self imporeance. So what if you say whatever you say? The sun will still rise tomorrow. I will still have a job, my family will still love me and the dogs will still want me to pet them. You can only offend me if I let you or your words have power over me. I am not that weak. If I get offended everytime somebody says somthing..It is because I choose to be offended, which is a waste of time. But that's just me. I do not hold others to that ideal.

Funny how you said : "But after just a few weeks here, it seemed that I was wrong..." I have entertained the idea that, while this is one of the most awesome online forum sites there is, and a great place to discuss various thoughts, ideas, opinions and an even greater place to explore other avenues or perceptions......this is NOT a site to go to before experiencing scouting! I mean,if I wasn't invloved in scouting in any way, shape or form,and wanted to see it I would like it..This place would probablt make me avoid scouting like my life depended on it! But as a scouter who got involved in scouting BEFORE discovering this site...well....it's just an extension of my pack. district, and council. Some see the glass half full, some see it half empty, and other wonder if it's a blantant violation of G2SS to even allow glass products! Great post. Love your sense of sarcasm amd style!

Never cared much for joining a school or league team. Preferred "back yard Bolw" footbal, baseball or pick up games at the playground of gym. Played with fire depts in competitions and had a blast. Used to have a killer serve in volley ball and was pretty darn good at baseball/softball. Now I stick to the assisting and helping out part of the game.

It totally and completely depends on te specific situation. In the case of the spun thread... which basically boils down to: Person "A"s not happy with a job that person "B" assigned on a general basis and says that it's a dumb job. Person "C" overhears and is personally offended and feel disrespected even though: 1) Nobody actualy said anything against or towards persn "B". 2)The complaint was about the general job and not any paerson. 3) Person "C"was not a party to, implicated, referenced ,or in any way associated with what person "A" was discussing other than just overhearing a partial conversation. In this specific situation, I would not have a forced an apology to anybody much less person "C". In fact, i I was to suggest anybody needs to apologize, I'd have person "C" making the apology.

Can't believe I almost forgot about this! Back in October, during our pack campout, our ACM went anf bought $10.00 worth of gold $1 coins. What we did was keep an eye on all the scouts and see who did something that really showed living up to the spirit of the Scout Oath and Scout Law. But we didn't tell anybody we were going to do this. On Saturady night, during the campfire program, the ACM announced what we did. Then we called out 10 scouts who were to be presented the coins. The scouts had no idea that this was gonna hapen, so it made it so much better for them. I can imagine that most of those coins are either lost or "out of sight/ out of mind" . But the fact that we showed recognition and pride in doing a good ded or the rightb things is still rememberd by many.

Pohsuwed, got yourself an original tongue twister there. Say it fast 3 times! Anyways, I am not saying that Beavah is totally or completely wrong. It goes both ways. Just like Doctors: Some people become doctors because they are kind sould who genuinely want to do what they can to help people. They are nice, caring folks with great bedside manners. But you also have the people who want to just be rich and see the money that some doctors make when the go into private practice. They are arrogant, rude, self serving abs usually only do what specifically benefits themselves and their career. Two different sides of the same coin. So , the way I see it, it's not about the knots, but the reason the person got them: Did he just happen earn him along his journey as a scouter, or was the purpose of the journey to just earn the knots? And that is the difference!

First, I want to be sure I understand the real question begind this post and not necessarily the OP it was spun from - just in case this post is spinning it into a differrent ( although re;ated) question. So, should adult leaders of the pack/troop/crew/ship have fun? WEll. yes! The day we quit having fun..it becomes work. The day it becomes work with out a paycheck...it becomes a burdon. The day it becomes a burdon is the day that our little bit of a contribution actually burdons the unit and starts dragging the unit down. Now, I am not saying that we should develop smiles that plastic surgery can't take off, but we ought to enjoy doing what we do - so that we do it more and do it better. Thus it benefits the unit. Should it be more enjoyable to parents of Cub Scouts? Yes. No, we shouldn't bend over backwards or kiss their buts or change the program for others to suit "demanding" or "Needy" parents..but they should at least enjoy the hour they spend at meetings or event so that they continue to bring Jr ...who is the whole purpose of the program. Again, don't change the dynamics or purpose of the program, but try to make mom and dad enjoy it more. Now about parents of Boy Scouts? WEll, not being in Boy Scouts or having any experience myself with BOY scouts...I'm thinking that the parents fun isn't so much a big deal as having them understand and approve what is happening. I am assuming that parents who are active will already understand the whoile boy lead thing and having sepperation, so it's really having the ones who don't do anything be happy with what they are paying for. Again, if mom and dad aren't happy, Jr wont be getting permission to be there and wont be there until he's 18 - and then it'sa moot point , right? Now, if the question means making a program that is planned around mom and da first, what their idea of fun is or ought to be ..and working from there? Then HELL NO! Because you are starting out with an inheirently flawed idea and program and it's only a matter of time before it implodes! Then it'a all for naught and a TOTAL wste of our ( meaning adults leaders and volunteers) time!

"Good turns should need no reward..." I agree completely! Doing the right thing is it's own award and living the scout oath and law. BUT..Standing that kid up at the pack meeting and handing him a small token ( such as an medal on the red white and blue ribbon) is what confirms and certifies that he did the right thing! Plus it is a lesson to others. Giving a proud Scout Salute to that scout!

"Kids deeply value lots of things without wearin' 'em on their chest - everything from da high score in a video game to the state championship to being first chair in da orchestra to their high school diploma with honors. Because we don't wear clothing to reflect any of those things, are we really undervaluing achievement?" No, but they do have the trophies on the shelves, in the front foyers and offices of schools, on signs out fron permanantly displaying such info. They brag and use them as social status too. But at the same time, those same kids will grow their hair long and wear it in an outrageuous style to irk their parents and as soon as the parents even act like they like the style, the kids change it. THose same kids will wear their pants half way down their legs and their hats sideways ...because it'scool" and because they want to show their individuality ( like everybody else!). Like others though..my personal experience with those who wear knots is that the ones who wear them are the ones who are the most active and supportive of the kids. They are the ones who are working out front, out back, behind the scenes and in the middle of the night. At RT, these guys are trhe ones who are working this wekenf and next weekend at the camp esetting up this activity and the next for the kids. The ones who are the acting "too good for you" social elite of scouting usually look down their noses at the Knots or even uniforms in general. They are too busy brushing that imaginary lint off their $200.00 slacks and gold watches. But I suppose that changes from council to council and varies depending on you location in the country.

Glad it worked out, but since we are talking about it...now is a great time to salespitch buying a track to the pack. We had 120 boys last year when we brought up the fact that if each scout donated $10.00 - it would buy us a four lane aluminum track AND the electronic timer AND the program for a laptop to run it. Came with cool racing sound effects, plus the program will allow different varibles of random lineups so that you don't have scouts sitting all day waiting on their turn while another scout gets eliminated from racing on the first heat. Again, for 120 scouts, it came out to $10.00 each!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Although Scouting has it's issues and problems, it's still the best program ...( at least in my area)..... because all the other ones are limited duration or a one shot deal. YMCA has summer swimmimg in a pool, But it has it with 1,5oo kids lined up foir their turn. You pay almost as much if not more money for 2 and 1/2 months of very, very limited and timed swimmimg time compared to an entire year of scoutimng. Plus, once the swimming is over at the YMCA..then it's done and over. KAPUT! The local parks and recs offers programs like daytime camp sesions, but activities are limited because of public assocaition and potentail lawsuits. Plus 45 boys watch as a adult may or may not light a campfire wich consists of 25 charcoal briquetts. Most any guided activity is just that: guided. The guid rambles through a worn and worn out dialog about blah, blah, blah, but doesn't actually teach you any useful skills that you retain. Any ifo is the very minimalist kind. Get you in, get you going and get you out ..hope you enjoyed what you just paid for!

In the past, we have had dens that planned a go see it to the local sherrifs office, but had the sherrifs say that they could give a better presentation if they came to our CO instead. Come den meetimng night, instead of a tour of a building and a jail cell, we had a van, patrol car and a K-9 unit show up. The dog performed some tricks, the cars did the whole lights and sirens thing and instead of that one den participating, 3 more dens participated. Now, technically, that isn't a go see it, but the same goals were 99% accomplished..other thana a bunch of parents driving somewhere,. filling up an entire parking lot and scouts crowding an unfamiliar building. So technically, it wasn't a go see it. But as far as we were concerned, it fit the bill. Things sometimes have to be modified and "tweaked" to work. Now, the above example was not even based on any physical, mental,or developmental situations. In your particular case, I cannot imagine why anybody would take issue with it , nor can I see why they wouldn't encourage you to make as many adjustments as necessary to make it work out for your scouts. Even Eagle rank has adjustmenst and alternative rank requirements based on and for disabilities. Do a search and you might even find videos for things like a blind water skier or skydiver ..things along those lines that show disabilities, yet people still living life.

Me? Well, that settles it: Scouting is doomed! LOL!