Scoutfish

Yeah, we used "caution" tape around the track and secured it to the first handy thing we could find: metal folding chairs. The down side was people sitting in the chair, or the chairs being to light to keep the caution line taut. This year, I am going to a tire shop, getting a bunch of old used tires that have holes or busted. Gonna clean them up and put the line on them. Thinking about borrowing some safety cones/ barrels from a local contractor for extra bling. One thing we did explain to the adults last year: The program we use randomly races all cars in each group( we group by rank - even though I accidentally said den earlier) and runs each car in each lane during the race. If your car runs bad in every lane, and the rest of the cars run good..then it's your car. If every car runs bad in a lane, we check the lane and redo the heats if necessary. If a car runs great in a particular lane, then yours runs bad, then the next car rubs god in that lane..your car is just out of whack! And we use electronic timers because we have finished that have ben within .003 of each other and the 2nd car actually looked like it won due to illusion of color, shape,etc... We also announceat the very beginning that the PWD is about crafts, building, parent/son doing something together,and having a great time fellowshipping. Winning is just something that happens at the end and is not the true goal! Then we tell the adults that - even though they helped with the cars, it's about the scout's fun and not mom or dad's ego.

Eagle007, We have pretty good RT's. I enjoy going to them too! However, there are a couple that nobody really wants to go to even though they need to. Those are Recharter, FOS/ Popcorn, and roundup. Yeah, they can be informative, give you info you need and even give you new ideas, but they are still a sales pitch and it all about numbers, numbers, numbers. You can dress a turd up in a tuxedo, but it's still just a turd! You need more $$, More scouts, more $ale$, more peperwork. But after those, they can( stressing CAN be - not WILL be) be pretty fun and enjoyable.

"The downside is they drop or damage their car (or someone else's), but it's a risk that seems outweighed by the reward of more involvement." That's the exact reason why we did it. At first, we'd say: "That's just the risk you take and you'll larn to be more carefull next time." But we saw alot of scouts who were being reallt carefull only to be bumped into by another scout that was not paying attention or just hyper over the upcoming event....so even carefull scouts cars were being damaged sometimes. We used to let the scouts bring their car to the garage, and then when we called them out, let them carry them to the gate operator. Then they collected the cars at the finish line and took them back to the garage. But the thing was, in all the hype and excitement, scouts would walk over the track and get sand on it, walk ON the track, bump the track 'etc.. Soon one parent knows without a doubt, that the only reason his son didn't win top grans champion was because the track was bumoped or 1 single grain of sand simultaneously locked up all 4 wheels. Then you have a scout who wimns all the heats in his division, is running 1st in the finals and then drops his car and ruins it. Up to that point,it was obvious he was gonna get grand champion, but then he is shot down to 3rd or just honerable mention. The way we do it now, scout brings it to the check in. we run it through specs, then scout puts in carrier. It goes to the garage/ staging table, and is quarantined until after the race, or until it's out of the race. So far, more scouts seem to be happy and there haven't been any accusations of favortism or mishandling, or intentional "accidents" of cars.

As a side note in a slightly related matter ( if you push it) A few parents have both Cub Scouts and Boy Scout. Usually we use two Boy Scouts as transporters for the cars that just raced. We have two padded carriers that hold two cars each. The Boy Scouts sit at the end of the track and put the cars in the carriers and carry them back to the staging table . We use the Boy Scouts for two reasons: 1) We don't want ever scout running to the finish line and bumping the track or dropping cars after they run into each other ( yes,it has happened) 2) The scouts really look up to the Boy Scouts. It's a no lose situation.

I like Gags idea of having a small box ( that could be minimized or expanded) tha list all the SA's( Scout Acronyms) for 2 reasons: For some that get used very little: we may not know them. For those who want to use them, but use the wrong letters : MC, CA, etc... Beyond that, I think the acronyms are a great idea...especially if you are talking about BOR's, EBOR's and SPL's and POR's at EBORs. By the time you type those words in whole a few times, you may double the time you type your post and double the size of your post!

Oh yeah...Our RT's are scheduled to be only about an hour long, but we end up yakking and talking for up to 2 1/2 hours sometimes. Not that there was a bunch of dull stuff going on, but we are having a pretty damn good time and we are enjoying ourselves. It turns out we loose track of time because we are having a good fun and productive time.

Well, you know what RT is supposed to be about. But maybe send out an e-mail asking all your unit leaders what they might also like to see at RT. Kinda a survey. No doubt you will get a bunch of different ideas that all go in different directions, but you can use some of them to get an idea of what might work. One great thing about our RT is that whenever the DE ( we don't have an official RT Commisioner or host to lead) finishes with aparticulat subject or sub section of a subject, he asks if anybody wants or needs to ad anything. For example, we were talking about PWD abs the annual showing of "Down and Derby" to the kids. WEll, we decided in my pack that we were tired of cleaning the slobber off the lethargic comatose kids faces after watching 10 minutes of D&D. So instead, while the leaders are having a leaders meeting, we have the kids watch "The Little Rascals" movie while eating popcor and drinking water while.....sitting in the cardboard box cars they made and decorated. The movie is on their level, has a soap box derby in it, and they love building a cardboard car/truck/van/tank/plane/train box with momor dad and showing it off at the movie. Had the DE not asked if anybody had some suggestions or different ideas..I never would have brought it up. But as it turns out, after I did bring it up, almost every leader thought it was a great idea and wanted to do it. Interaction and leader participation are key. Sometimes we just sit, take note and don't say anything because we don't think w4e have anything to add. Our DE will make sure we bring up any thoughts ideas and questions or concerns...and that goes a long ays to being at ease, being more comfortable and enjoying RT.

We hold our PWD at a local school's cafeteria/ multi purpose room. We also hold Christmas parties and sometimes, B&G there. Depends on the number of scouts we have each year and number of parents present. We use our Co most of the time, but with a bigger crowd.....we use the cafeteria/MP room. Yeah, sounds weird, but the cafetaeria is seperated by the MP room by a huge sectional folding wall. Anyways, to show appreciation to the school for letting us use their space, we are building and installing 9 benches. 1 for each den. After the boys show up, register and turn over the PWD cars, we are going to pick a den that isn't racing and let them do final assembly, dig a hole and help set the benches in place, take a photo for the local paper, and then go back in. We will do this one den at a time as the dens are not racing. That still leaves 7 dens to cheer on the den who happens to be racing at the time. So, this will be3 our first time doing this, so I'll let you know how it turns out. But we are thingking that it wil help somewhat with the restless "when do we race" syndrome. The bonus is that the school sees we appreciate their part, the cubs learn to say thanks other than just saying thanks, as we get a little bit of publicity and PR y sending pics to the local papers. And the Cubs will think it's really cool to have their pic sin the paper!

Well, I know that Boy Scout Camping is not the same as Cub Scout camping....But I may not have a completely clear picture of what Boy Scout Camping is "SUPPOSED" to be. It just seems from alot of posts that the Boy Scouts ( was gonna abbreviate "BS" but that just wouldn't seem right! ) camping involves alot of advancement one day and BOR's the next. But from what you and a few others describe, maybe I am only seeing what the mils do while camping? And again, sounds like your camping is the kind I am proposing.

> I hear ya! Our COR is very active. He is at all committee metings, at all den nights , all pack meetings , goes camping with us at pack campouts and attends all summer fun day or other extra activities like PWD, B&G, Crossover and AOL ceremonies. He was a scout himself, and he was the CubMaster of our pack way, way, way back when and spent 6 or 7 years as the SM of our CO's troop. He has a great personality and will offer any help as well as advice when asked. He wears a mesh Austrailian stly hat with the one side folded up - and has a BSA logo on it. That is the extent of his uniform. Personally, with all the help and committment he offers, I wouldn't care if he showed up in a speedo and sandals with black knee socks!

AOL eequirements say must be active 6 months after finishing 4th grade to earn AOL. So in that regard, if he's still in fourth grade ( for the 1st time), he can't earn AOL. If he;s repeating fouth grade, well, then you have an odd situation where age grouping doesn't match grade grouping. At this point, there may be some secondary , yet lesser known protocol. But as with many things, organazations have the right to change rules as they se fit!

While taking either SSD or SA, and while taking YTP,,there were trhe same glitches. The sites were overlaoded and too busy. The entire page would not always download. And as Moose said..when it humng up, you were stuck at that point. I could log out, refresh my computer, shut down and start up the next day...and as soon as i clicked on YPT or SSD/ Sait would go to exactly where I left off, then hang up again. When I say go back to that point, I do not mean run til it got to that point, but would skip directly to where I left off then hang up. But other trainings would not. Comiittee fast start for example. Must not have been a huge line for that one!

From www.scouting.org : 1.Meet the age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old. So it depends. Figuring that the "norm" is that most Webelos I boys are nine and that most Webelos II boys are ten..AND that usually ( but not only!), Webelos earn their AOL in the second year of Webelos ...then it's commonplace that most 2nd year Webelos are at lest 10 years old and have their AOL. It's really a matter of BSA wording it different. Instead of saying: "or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old" BSA should have said: " Be ten years old AND have earned the Arrow of light Award." As for the part that says: "A Webelos Scout who has earned the Arrow of Light Award has now completed all the requirements for the Scout badge and may join a Boy Scout troop." ...ws it a unit site or was it possibly a district or council site? Because the quote, while sounding good is actually flawed. A Webelos scout who theoretically with his DL rushed the program, would not be elligible for AOL until after he had finished 4th grade because he has to be "Active as a Webelos for AT LEAST 6 months after finishing 4th grade." Maybe council makes exceptions for a scout who fails 4th grade and is in it a second time? Don't know, but it would be an exception, not routine.

Baden, A CO can charter more than one unit of the same type of unit. A Co could charter packs 235, 236, 270 Troops 235 and 270 Crew 236 Why? Beats me! Maybe they absorbed from another unit where the CO's new IH is absolutely against that sort of thing. Maybe the CO starts another unit for the soccer oplaying hispanic groups. Maybe CO has an awesome COR and a great amount of support, but is split by one group who loves to camp twice a month while the other wants to camp only 3 times a year. (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

tdorr, The religious award is not a BSA award, It is an award independant of BSA, but recognized by BSA. Each religion sets it's own requirements and agenda. 8e doesn't qualify because of the above reasons , but also because it is an alternative to meeting a rank requirement in leu of earning the religious award. You do not order the awards, rather, they must be presented by the religious group itself. ACM's can act as a liason for teaching it, but that is dependant upon the approval of each religious CO. Think of it this way: Suppose the rank requirements say you must earn a 4-H award, boys club award, or some civic award from your state, county or town government. Maybe you have to earn a state or federal parks award. All the requirements, objectives and the final granting of the award would be covered by, controled by and awarded by that group, not BSA or the unit itself.

My bad, I'm still not being clear on one point. I'd still go swimming, hiking, canoeing and those type activities. That's part of plain camping to me. I am not saying that you do nothing but sit at a campfire. Let them swim, hike , bring a fotball or baseball. But I do not mean no activity at all, just saying 1 or 2 times a year and ONLY 1 or 2 times..not all the time....maybe just relax and not push rank advancemnent.

If I had to guess.. it is because they ae a representative of the Charter Organazation that sponsors a scouting unit, not the Unit itself. They are "employee" or a "hired hand" ( meaning they mot not actually get paid) of the CO. They work represent the CO who happens to charter a unit. And as such being in that position, they are not a part of the unit, but a liason between the unit and the CO. Kinda like how a lawyer works. He might do stuff stuff to help assist your company( your unit) but he is not actually an employeee ( member)of your company. And maybe I'm wrong, but in simple terms, the COR represents the unit. But in a technicallity, he doesn't represent the unit, but rather represents the Charter Organazation who wants to provide a program to the area youth.And the CO just happens to use BSA for this purpose as opposed to another program. So the COR is actually looking out for the CO, not the unit. It just happens that the CO uses the BSA to do their youth program. The COR could just as easily represent the CO if the CO used Indian Guides ( isn't that the one with Chevy Chase?), Little warriors, Outdoors & God ( I just made that one up) Bible Scouts or even a Youth Peace Corps.

LOL!

No, no no! Don't misunderstand me. I am NOT saying that hiking, canoeing, exploring, cooking or stuff along those lines should be dropped. Nor am I saying my post applies to every camping trip. I am only saying that at least once or twice a year, the camping shouldn't be about doing something for the sake of advancement or rank. Couldthey or should they use skills already learned? ABSOLUTELY. But instead of it being a planned lesson that hapens at camp, maybe it should just be camoing for camping's sake. And the reason I say this ia that I have seen leaders try to cram so much stuff into a weekend , that if one thing goes wrong,the whole plann is screwed up. I read in these forums that some scouts feel to much pressure and I read alot of comments that state some leaders have to remind other leaders and parents that advancement should happen at it's own pace. What I am saying is that at least 1 or 2 times a year, the camping should not have anything that has to do with rank advancement or earning anything. Go hiking, swimming, canoeing or whatever at your own leisurely pace. If you want to swim....that's great! If you want to just chill and be lazy..that's great! If you want to hike just to see what kind of bird that is making a fuss at the top of the tree on that hill..AWESOME! If you are going to so you catch up on a rank advacement requirement or unfinished achievemnt,or to finish out a session.....wait til the next trip! I'm just saying, why the emphasis on all the camping skills? What is the point behind teaching all that stuff? To make camping easier, to better prepare you, and so you enjoy the camping more. Kinda like, we go to school to learn how to enjoy camping. So let's camp for enjoyment rather than another lesson on camping. Not all the time, not every time. Just every now and then.

Armpit fudge? Think I might have heard of the process, just not the name. Definantly buy stock in ZipLock. Wife and son love the hag omlettes. We eat them at least once each weekend if not both days. Only mess is the bags.

Sitting here at the computer because I woke up about 30 minutes ago. It's 3 am and I'm wide awake and don't know exactly why. So I'm sitting here listening to the quiet , but realizing that it's not really that quiet after all. The refrigerator is running, although it's not loud. Just kinda blends in in the background so you hardly notice it any more. The HVAC kicks in every so often too, but like the fridge, you don't even hardly notice it any more. So this got me thinking about the very first time I took my son camping, which happened to be in Cub Scouts. It was a fall pack family campout. Mid October, so the days were warm and the nights just chilly enough to make you enjoy the night time campfire and sleeping bag. Also made a morning cup of coffee just right while starting the am campfire from last nights coals. So anyways, that first night, we were in our tent and I was just about to slip into sleep mode when my son asked me: "Dad! What was that noise?" I didn't hear anything, so I told him so. He heard it again, and again. It took me a while, but I realized he was hearing leaves fall and slide down the side of the tent and rain fly! I mean...what does a leaf weigh? 3/100ths of an ounce? But it was cool that he heard it and he even said that everybody ought to be able to experience hearing a leaf fall! Or something to that effect. Now, this was Cub Scouts , and it was Pack family camping, so the program wasn't as streamlined and orchestrated as your average council event or Troop camping. And by that, what I really mean is that we didn't have every minute of the day laid out and fitting into some designated plans. We were more relaxed with plenty of fre time for the kids to run around, play, get dirty, explore and just have fun. And I say kids and not scouts because there were siblings that were not scouts present. Older or younger brothers and sisters too. Yeah, we did have some activities laid out, but they were not imperative to meeting rank or out of line for non scouts to appreciate or enjoy. But here's the cool thing. Myself and some other leaders were drinking coffee early one morning when one of us pointed out that the boys were drinking hot chocolate around a campfire and comparing "war stories" about what they did or saw the day before. They were talking about sleeping in tents , hearing owls, birds, people snoring, how quiet it was, the sound of a stream nearby if you turned your head just the right way.They even laughed about the whole camp hearing somebody fart in the middle of the night. But they were not talking about Star Wars or the latest cartoons or who could do what to reach this level on what video game. So I also remember going to out first council camping trip. Activities were really for the Tigers and Wolves, so my Webelos son really wasn't interested in doing ( as he put it) "Baby activities". But he still enjoyed the camping itself along with the campfires, hot chocolate , cooking hot dogs on sticks over the fire, etc... You know, the simple part of camping. So here's a thought that is starting to form in my mind: Do you ever go camping just for the sake of camping? By that, I mean as a pack or troop, do you ever plan a camping trip that doesn't involve trying to cram in a bunch of classes, workshops, rank advancing challenges or requirements? I'm thinking about the occasional post I read where somebody didn't get to finish "X" activity at camp and got a partial instead or how you can barely get requirements to fit into a weekend camp. Then I read how some boys are considered "unmotivated" because they go to the campouts, but don't try to advance very hard. Maybe they want the camping, but not alot of hard work or classes? So I wonder, do you ever camp just for the sake of camping? Do you camp just for the sheer enjoyment of camping ..but as a troop or pack? Instead of making every camping trip a school or class for rank or advancement, or "work"....do you ever do one just for relaxation and taking it easy and enjoying simple things like staring at a campfire and talking about the sound of leaves falling? It seems like that as much as we are trying to get the kids outdoors and into wanting to go camping, we cram so much crap into it, that they don't get to just sit back and enjoy it! Now, I am not saying every campout should be about sleeping til 9 am or not doing any scout skills or learning, but maybe 1 or 2 trips a year should be about doing just that. Just camping for the sake of enjoying it. Without anything else attached to it.

You also know that there is the way things are "supposed to work" and how they "really do work". I have no idea who is "supposed" to approve our permits, but I know who gets them and who sends us an e-mail approval and copies of te permit. Our Concil registrar/ admin asst does. But to clarify something, of the 12 people in the scout office at any given time, she is the one who pretty much can help you with your needs, questions, services and gets the ball rolloing on things. She is also part of a troop.a crew, and a ship and used to be in cubs. She has seen it, done it, breathed it and lived it. She is a matter of fact person who uis attuned to the "real worldz" and is very nice, but can play hard ball when need be. When she retires, I see things getting overly complicated and a whole lot slower and agonizing at Council.

I'm talking pack, not troop: $40.00 a year plus den dues 3 times a month plus ala mode per activity such as camping, trips, etc... Council camps fees are handles by individuals, not the pack - too many people cancel or opt out after we pay,and we can only transfer fees , not be reimbursed. But the aggravation is too much. We sell popcorn of which 20% goes into scout accounts that can be used against any pack fees or costs and includes fees towards district/council events. WE also do a barbeque chicken dinner fundraiser in the spring which brings in a clear profit of around $6 to $8,000.00. Kinda along the popularity of Kiwanis pancakes or Shriners fish frys. They sell wether people like them or not because they are supporting us.

Your COR is authority representative of whoever your charter organazation is. The COR can remove you or your SM. The COR can go to council and basically say" Don't bite the hand that feeds you lest the hand stops feeding you and you starve." Most CORs are pretty nice guys, but they (if the have the backbone) be heavy leaners when the time comes. But back to denial of permits: Here's the thing: You know what training you have. I don't. I kn0w what I have. You do not. The SE or DE only knows what is on paper. If the paper says you don't have it, then as far as the SE or DE is concerned...you don't. And let's face it...This world is full of people who say they have this or that or are trained in, experienced in, or familair in "X" when in fact, they have no clue because they are not trained or experienced. They may think they know what they are doing, but that's not quite good enough for BSA - and I don't blame BSA for that. Think about it. Suppose a member of your uunit wanted to take the boys camping and according to your paperwork and to the best of your knowledge...has no training or at least, not the right training for the activity in question. Do you just believe him? Remember, the SE or DE talkes not only to you, but alot of folks. Some names mean nothing, some faces are that of total strangers. He is not intimately familiar with you as other members of your unit. Therefore, it is his/her job to deny that permit for the safety of the boys and yes..even avoid potential lawsuits As far as fundraising, it could be the smallest detail or even a misunderstanding of what it is that you plan to do. Does it conflict with FOS or whatever your council does to raise money? Does it happen just before or during council fundraising. Is it something that could be questionable ( raffles, gambling, kids in potential physical danger ) ? I mean, it sounds like the guy is a jerk, but you do have to look at it from the office side of things too. Everybody thinks their parents are unfair and sooo not cool..until they become parents themselves. Everybody knows the boss or supervisor is jerk untuil they get promoted to that job and realize there are bigger things to the picture.

Oh , absolutely..I will do something in the middle of the cooking part. Maybe a song and a skit..possibly two. It would take about 2 and a half minutes to show them how to prep the omlettes. The rest of the 10 minutes is the omlettes cooking, which means they are in a pot with lid - can't see them. I'd use a filler here: a skit or two, trhen when the omlettes were done, show them to everybody.