Scoutfish

I'll echo shortridge and also add that alot of coaches already have specific camps and particular programs in mind. Matter of fact, most of them expect player to go in house in order for it to count for anything.

Could be that they are just showing what the shirt will look like when you buy it instead wrongly adding what might be wrong. Remember the BSA having the Tiger with AOL and all the Cub Scout ranks sewn on his pocket. Patches on the wrong rankl or right rank but wrong side?

We have an awesome crossover rate. In 4 years, only 2 boys out of about 55 to 60 did not continue on in Boy Scouts. THose were the boys who's parents saw AOL as a stopping point. Two of the boys wanted to continue, one did not, but wether it was because mom and dad had nothinmg good to say abouit continueing or wether the boy just didn't like it is beyond me. Out of all the boys who do continue on, 90% cross to our CO's troop, while the rest will go to other close by troops. IT's not a perfect set of figures as the amount changes each year, One year the WEBELOS II boys might number 15, the next 9 or 23. But anyways, my point was - and based on what I have seen and experienced - any boy who works towards and earns his AOL - is enjoying the program and looking forward to becoming a Boy Scout. If he doesn't continue on, usually it's becaue mom and dad see it as a stopping point. Me? I see it as neither stop or start, I see it as a transition to change!

But if any of you show up and are trakling prscriptions and the effects do not impair or influence your judgement....then there is no issue!

Yeh can't quote a private policy in da face of a public law, and yeh can't substitute amateur judgment for professional judgment So I guess I can bring a six pack or case of beer with me while camping and dare BSA to say or do anything about it right? Afterall, it is perfectly legal in all 50 states! Thing is, I never said I was substituting my judgement for another adults or doctors. I said if it was something that affected their mental state , then there would be circumstances to which they must follow. And just like most of the nmeds that basement listed, most have warning labels saying that there are restrictions. Do not drive while taking... do not operate heavey equipment or machinery .... And those drugs are 100% perfectly legal, yet I'll bet your entire paycheck that if I take those drugs with a prescription, and drive or operate sosme machinery or even be the cook at a scout camp, and hurt somebopdy...I will be 100% responcible for my actions and the resulting consequences of. You tell a judge rthat concerning a parent who was taking a medicine with a prescription - that the judge cannot substitute their own opinon over that of another adult. As far as holding my opinion over that of a child...you bet your butt I will. I do9 it every day, do it at den meetings, at pack meetings, at home, at work and other places too. If A child is taking any meds, better be mom or dad there to either go over and explain them or be ready to administer them their selves. And define " substitute amateur judgment for professional judgment" I have seen parents who won't be at camp decide that maybe the will give the scout a double or triple dose of meds that way he's covered all weekend long. I have experiences with doctors who will write out meds for kids and adults right after the adults said they were alergic to that med and have bad reactions. Define amature. In whose opinion? Yours? And what is this judgement based on itself? Point is, As a CM , if we are at a pack family campout, and one of my parents is walking around half gacked out ona prescription med, and a child gets knocked into the fire or has a pot of stew spilled on them or has an eye poked out after swordfighting with sharpened sticks because prescription adult thought it was a fun idea............... Guess is the very first person to have to answer to the scot, to mom and dad, the committee the COR, The IH, the CO, the law? Go ahead and guess? And gues how many will ask wjy I didn't stop prescription adult form doing what they did? I guess I am supposed to say : "Sorry Timmy, I know having 3rd degree burns from being knocked into the campfire sucks, but I'm too amateur to think other wise about Mr' Smith staggering around camp like he was drunk or somthing. NBow, in reality, I do not expect somebody who needs meds trhat bad ...and that has that kind of reaction to actualy show up to go camping. I pretty much figure they will just hang out at home. I don't expect them to go around town much less campinmg in the woods or a park or campground. But if they do, tehre will be restriction placed based on how they act, how much they are affected and what they are using. But in the case of Marijuanna...I don't have to make an amateur decison. The great state of North Carolina has done that for me. Beer now, well since it is entirely legal, I guess I will tell BSA that I cannot use my amateur opinion over the legal and professional ones. CHEERS!

Society in general as we used to know it is long gone! Remember way back when..in the 80's and early 90's? As opposed to way, way back when which was the 60's and 70's. When I grew up, I did not have a room full of toys. I had a few legos or erector sets ( remember all the steel girders and nuts and bolts?) and some comics. I had about 12 model helicopters and planbes I put together and maybe a paint by number painting on the wall. Everything else I did revolved around outside. Bicycle, baseball and bat, couple frisbees, soccerball, and two chinese throwing stars and a machete. Yeah, I'm not totally sure mom and dad knew about the stars and machete...but I still have all my fingers, toes and both eyes...so maybe I was lucky. My friend had almost every know toy at the time since him mom and dad were divorced. Dad was using gifts to replace the time away. He had a 13 B&W tv set with rabbit ears and an Atari 2600 video console hooked up to iyt. The only time we used it was when it was too cold or raining outside. If we were bad, we got our butts handed to us wether at school or at home. Mouthing off, sassing or even putting too much roll in rolling your eyes got you whacked! If you were bad in school and got the paddle, you got it again when you got home. Mom and dad did not threatren to sue the entire state over a paddling. People took responcibility for their own screw ups, Everybody understood that they had a responcibility to work, fed and provide food clothing and shelter for their own families . People paid the bills, bought the essentials and planned fror bad times beforte wasting on frivolous stuff. Man, I could write 13 pages of stuff and only tell rthe tip of the iceburge of what is going on. Granted, I think alot of parents are more personally involved with what their kids do now, but so involved that they are more like personal assistants or body guards than parents who let their kids experience stuff. Nobody can stand the fact that their kid might make a mistake or fail at something or anything. Every child has to be on a pedistal and be soo darn gushed and googled over. Everybody has to just feel 100 happy ass and no tears or bad feelings. Parents today do not recognize that being bored is not a dysfunctuion or torture. Bordom is a key ingerdiet to self support and thinking and exploration. Parents cannot volunteer because they either have to lift a finger and take responcibility or they might miss out on three seconds of protecting their child from having less than 100 percent positive feelings about themselves. Now let's everybody stand up and pass out participation trophies..but remember, there is no number 1 - because we are all winners! I'd say more, but my son might need my help his video game.

First thing I would do is make sure that I heard him correctly. Then I'd get a clear understanding of what he understands gay to mean, and also be sure that he really thinks he is. Never experienced it myself, but have heard often enough over the years that prepubescent and teens going through puberty as well as those who are just past puberty being able to have feelings for both sexes.Not so much as being confused in what they think, but being confused in what they understand about what they feel. Truth be told, I don't understand it ...mostly because I never went through it myself. But then again, when I was around that age, people didn't try to judge wether you were homo or hetero based on what songs you listened to, what style of clothes you wore, what kind of car you drove, hairstyle, etc... Back then, you either were or were not. Bi sexual wasn't even a word in my are unles you were talking about those little frogs that could spontaneously change their sex ( don't understand that one either!) The next thing I would do is tell the boy that this is something he might need to discuss witha trusted family memebr or long time friend. As far as I am conbcerned, until he3 turns 18, he is not gay, nor is he straight. Matter of fact, as far as I am concerned, he has no sexual id or orientation. He is not a straight scout or a gay scout, he is just a scout. Now, having said all that, the single biggest thing that makes a difference in how you approach this is that you know the boy and I do not. Not a single bit of advice matters without knowing the person personally or at least as well as you know this boy, his personality, background, quirks, etc... Like me asking advice on what my wife might mean when she says "X" , and how I should handle it...it all depends on my wife, her personality,etc.. But from what I can tell, you went about it the right way. No knee kerk reactions, no sudden halting of friendship or mentoring, no Spanish Inquisition type hearings.

My take in this is a bit different. I am not gonna argue wether it's a hokey medicine or legit. It it's legal, then it's legal. If it's not, then it's not. Of course, right now NC doesn't have legal medical marijuanna laws. But if they did, I'd still look at it from the "in use" perspective: Alcohol is legal in my state. but you had better not have it at a scout camp or during any scout function. Legal or not! All the codiene and oxy-got to stop hurting drugs are legal too. As well as percocet and vicatin drugs. After my surgery, I was given about 4 prescriptions for drugs I never filled that were all perfectly legal......but had restrictions on operating machinery, driving, and warnings about drowsyness, too liberated a tongue, etc... My point is if a mom, dad, leader. or scout - which is the least likely to be there under those circumstances - is using the one or all of these items....then they need to be aware they will have the same restrictions places on them. The one place that marijuanna is different is this: smoke will drift and can affect others directly. I never heard of somebody succumbing to secone hand beer or second hand percocet . Never heard mention to the effects of second hand Hydrocodien or Daltin exposure. I suppose in a scout or adult insisted on being at camp, etc.I woul;d say okay, but you nbare confined to your tent the entire time you are using or under the effect of said prescription. Point is, I am not arguing wether medical marijuanna should be legal or not. I do know some people who had cancer who did a whole let better when they smoked it. ALOT better. But I would not let them drive or be at my camp even knowing it benefitted them because of their mental state during that time. I do know that every person is different from a medical and anatomic make up. Me? I had a radical Right Side Neck Dissection almost 2 years ago where I had my Sternocleidomastoid Muscle taken out, 19 Lymph nodes Removed, and lost about 2 inches of my Spinal accessory Nerve. I went home from the hospital the next day with two drain tubes coming out of my neck and never filled 4 prescriptions for all those great drugs including Dalatin ...which is supposed to be 10 times stronger than Morphine. My wife donated a Kidney to her mom and was in agony for a week before the pain was managable. I knew a woman who would faint just from bumping her funny bone. What I am saying is that I am not arguing t wether med marijuanna is legit for helping. Every person is different and their tolerances are different. Just like some people being allergic to some meds while others are not. My whole concern and all my issues are about the mental state of a person on any drug or substance that can not only affect their mental state...but also affect the physical well being of others.

Basement, Yes! That is what I am selling. On my part - it's any camping a cub scout m,ight do at any level or just with mom and dad. Fron the council's standpoint, I am selling any camping that brings $$$ to the council or district. As for my audience...in this case. it was people like you and me and Eagle, and Twocubdad and Seattle n, shortridge, dessert, and tampa. It was made up of people who show up at RT every month and also head op or work on at least 2 or 3 committees or camp staffs. They are people who already bought in a long time ago.

Truth be told....we see more scouts drop out because mom and dad see this as a good stopping point. The rest are lost due to girls, sports, committments to other things or moving. But with mom and dad, It's like they are taking advantge of not seein g us and it's before they see the leaders and members of the troop. Thing is, when a WEbelos I or II works for his AOL - he hasn'r given up or thought to drop out - he's engaged and going full throttle. But mom and dad see AOL as a end point and time to stop having to drive the son to meetings.

Our RT's are pretty cool. We start out with Cubs and Boys together, then after basic announcements, we do breakaway into out seperate groups...if it is needed, There are dulls ones: popcorn is the first to come to mind, but necessary. One cool thing is that our Commisioner and our DE ask us at the last RT of the year: What topics do you want covered next year. We write them down and discuss them. One cool thing we did just before Spring camping was that the DE brought in a pediatrician who discussed toipcs along child CPR, shock, ADD ADHD, meds and such. THis ended up being a great and informative meeting. Lots of common "wives tales" and myths about kids behaviors and whatnot were detroyed! Just before PWD, we don't talk so much about racing, as we do about rules for district and preventing misunderstandings and making sure things go smoothly. Sure, each pack can do their own thing....but then you end up facing a new challenge at district PWD. The best RT's are based on not only asking for feedback from the units...but working with it too!

I find it funny that what started as the leadership interrogating a youth based on a RUMOR of his sexuality has somehow turned into some scouters of this site chastizing other scouters on this site for falling into rumour mongering and being in bad tatse. First thing first...A person within a unit that is connected to the scout in question asked for advice. That advice was asked for in the interest of the scouts well being, not for spreading rumors or for giving the unit a spotlight or public advertisement. get that? it was all in concern for the scout. Secondly, there seems to be a challenge of who is qualified to help troubled teens. Really? The original poster never said the scout in question was a troubled teen. That is a fabrication of the imagination gone wild of a member of this site. Speaking of rumors and heresay...didn't this all start as a baseless attck on ascout? Boys being ...well..just strupid boys. I'm sure it wasn't a pre meditated plan to search for and evict gay scouts from the unit....but sensless stupid boy s being just that. Point is, it seems that the leadership reacted to a scout reacting to a rumor. They reacted badly, very badly at that. Now, I notice that nobody is saying that the scout could very well stand up and say: Yes! I am Bisexual" to the leaders, and they cannot do anything about it based on national policy. But the parents - who are very much allowed and within their rights to be at any and all meetings that their LEGALLY UNDERAGE SON happens to be a part of - can ask the leaders to present proof that their son said anything, and what turn of events( as wells as those involved in those events) brought that out? Now personally, I myself would have a big ole less than scoutlike talk with those leaders and any member of the CO including the COr and his son, and tell them what part of my anatomy they can kiss as I walk out. This troop is rotten. And you can't make rotten fruits become un rotten. All you can do is toss it out and start over. This troop is going to implode soon. We know that one scout is lyying and says the Interrogated scaouyt has amitted to him personally about being Bi. So we have lying scouts in troop. Another scout drags up a picture off the web of interrogated scout in a costume, but in a slanderous way, acts like the "I" scout dresses thiw way all the time. The mom of a scout is blabbing to her daughter about "private": meetings. So who else does she blab to? What about her daughter? Sorry folks, this is a rotten to the core clique troop. You are either friends of the "right" people or youi are just a hurddle waiting to be stabbed in the back, be trashed or have your name drug through the dirt in order to benefit or make somebody else look good.. There is no intergrety, honor or Scout Honor in this troop. It is going to implode. When or where is a good guess, but not if!

Well...what I meant was, my DE asked me to speak to - well, basically a group pf people like you that are here in this forum. That is : people who already go camping quite often. I took it as the same thing as telling a fish how great swimming in water is. Like preaching to the choir. So I thought maybe that's where the problem lies. I do not need to sell pig poop tp pig farmers. I need to seel it to those not on the farm. I am going to give an open invitation to every pack in my district and let them know I wuill go to their pack on a pack meeting night of their choice and give a wholw presentation ands Q & A session if the want me to. The people who show up at comncil, district , and RT meetings are already sold on camping already. Why sell something to somebody who already bought it? That make more sense? And this is what makes me wonder if Conciul, district or the SE or DE are targeting the wrong people.

We had the same issue until I read what somebody here on this site did: They took a second flag staff and hung the ribbons from it. So what we do is keet the last 10 award ribbons...for whatever they are : Summer activity, quality unit, etc... on the flag, and any beyond the ten go in a staff all their own. I did read where another unit would sting them together like the little triangle flag streamers you see outside store and gas stations and strech them across the room during pack meetings.

A while back, I was asked to speak at a council program preview meeting about cub scout camping. My DE said that it was supposed to be a totally unscripted 5 - 10 long talk from my heart . But he did say that he wanted me to talk to those in attendance about the importance of cub scouts going to and attending camp. Well, I didn't really regearse anything, but had a few ideas about what I wanted to say. Well, when my turn came to speak...I had a total epithany: I was supposed to sell the idfea of camping. But as soon as I stood up at the podium, I realized the flawed logic here: I was supposed to sell camping to people who were the regular campers at council, district , absd whatever pack camps there were! And how do I know they were regular campers? Because they were at a council program preview meeting during what wouild be their dinnertime on a Tuesday night, in full uniform. They had the uniforms with all kinds of patches, ribbons, award knots and such. About 1/3rd were wearing their woodbadge neckers and beads. So, what would I say to them about camping that the didn't already know. So right there and then I went about it differently: I spoke about the importnace of making sure you carry that message across to the scouts and parents. I told them that even though trhe "same old thing" gets dull at times, there are new scouts in every rank who are seeing and doing it for the first time. Amd like my 10 1/2 year old son...even though parent son is geared more towards Tigers and Wolves, there is stil alot of fun to be had without participating in "baby" activities. ( thats how mu son put it) Just being there, camping in the outdoors , and enjoying nature is a great reason to go! So anyways, back to my epithany - Selling camping to people who are already camping - is this where councils lose touch with the program? Is this why camp programs get dull anbd old? Is this s simple mistake or a flat out head in the sand approach? Your thought?

While necessary evil isn't the exact terms I might use, it's pretty darn close. While I can't put the prefect appropriate name to it, It is more along the lines of an amiccable agreement: WE agree to pay "X" amount of taxes in return, we get "X" amount of services: Judges, courts, policr protection, militray defense, ect. But there is a very large amount of straong armed tactics too: When the government funds hokey studies, public polls or such, and we pay that with our taxes without the option of "ala mode" choice in what we pay for...then we are being fleeced. Granted, I like to help people in need. But take the whole thing that happened in the great state of NC this year ( a few months ago as a matter of fact) Scores and scores of teachers and other state and country employees were let go due to budget shortfalls Yet the NC house speaker gave out raises between $25,000.00 to $45,000.00 to his 7 staff members.....six of who just started this year! THey had been employeed in their positions less than 6 months, and after raises, their salaries average around $70,000.00 a year! Where did that money come from? TAXES These employees got bonus rases ( after less than 6 months on teh job) equlat or greater than an entires years salary for the teachers who were let go. Then the following week, the news rans stories of the teacher /student ratios being so out of whack, that learning was going to be compromised! So what are they gonna do? Start studying harder for the EOG's and NO STudent Left Behind tests!

They are weekend long, but at council camp. I guess they make them weekend during late spring and early fall , and not in the middle of the summer due to a few things: Heat...man, it's hot! Well, actually, it's not so much hot as unbearably humid and muggy out. Suymmer is a busy, busy time for our council camps with boy scouts , crews and OA. Take a peak at our concil calendar and it's slam full straight through the summer Alot of parenst won't camp in the summer because it might interfear with their vacation plans or something along those lines. Anyways, it is a council program at a council camp camp.

While I cannot speak for every industry, or any other state for that matter...right here in NC - specifically New Hanover County, idustry self regulation is not the answer nor is it the better way. Mater of fact, a few idustries are trying to circumvent and get around government standards for clean air and emmissions. The propposed Titan Cement company turned down building incentives in order to try and avoid govt inspections and permit quality controls because it's proposed plant would completel;y miss the minimal levels of mercury emmissions. Builders ( not all mind you) try to run for every board, commissioner, and study group they can, in order to be the ones who set the standards of CAMA, erosion, and emmissions. Again, cxan't speak for your area, but in my locale, if it wasn't for Government interferance and govt regulation...Cape Fear Council would be known as Toxic Soup Council

IM_Kathy, My use of the word Valium was in fact, a random stab in the dark. We did have a leader at one time who had a legitimate prescription for valium because of anxiety issues when it came to being around big crowds. Well, it was understod to be legit and it was proven that her name was on the bottle. I do not have an issue with that, but we did have to keep occasionally ask mom to step back from the campfire and let her know her kids needed to step back too. We had one ADL show up at a meeting while taking codiene pills after having 3 wisdom teeth cut out. The man wasn't falling on his face drunk, but I can tell you his mouth was NOT bothering him at all. He was not in pain. Matter of fact, he was feeling pretty good. Again, no issue with him having prescription, but we had our treasurer drive him home and our COR picked her up from his house to bring her back. My point is this: I have no issie with legit prescriptions. But just like the warnings on the bottle say: Do not drive, Do operate heavy machinery, Do not try to lead scouts while taking this medication!! If there was such a thing as a legit Medical marijuanna prescription in NCm, and one of my leaders was legitimately holding a prescription for a legit pain or illness...then I do not have an issue with it. But in NC, it is also completely and totally legal to drink beer and alcohol, and smoke cigarettes......but we do not allow it at scout meetings and functions. Keep it legal, keep it at home, keep it away from the scouts and I'm cool with it!

WOW! All I can say is ...in all honesty...I probably would act in a very very unscoutlike manner myself. I have no doubt I would make a total ass of myself before removing my son from that troop immediately, and I would not hesitate to let any and all other parents in that troop know about the extreme behavior of this leadership...because you just don't know who it will happen to or when it will happen again. I can't say my reaction is any better or more justified than the supposed "adult" leadership in this post, but I would be beyond caring about that at that point! Not saying my reaction would be right, But I am being honest in saying what it would be!

Wether med Mj halps or not is not my concern. Truth e told, it may help somebody with real pain even if it's only because they are too stoned out of their mind to notice the pain. Thing is, Valium is a legit medical use prescription item too. But I would not allow my leaders to be under the influence of it during scout activities. If rthey have a prescription to take it at night when they go to bed...probably not a problem. If they need to take it during the middle of the day while they also happen to be leading/ conducting an activity - then It's time they step back and let the Assistant or another leader take over There are many, many legit medcines that have restrictions. Pop a couple prescription pills, jump in your car and cause a wreck. When you go to court ( or jail) you can flash that prescriptiuon, the Dr's buisness card and a copy of state and federal laws all you want...it's not going to help. Why? Because there are still standards and expectations to be met while you have a prescription - wether real of faux. The worst thing that you would have to do is alow the youth /leader to go, but you could tell them they have to stay at the med officers office/ first aid center/ whatever you call it...until the effects of the meds are negotiable. If this means they will spend the entire event there..tell them it's either that or stay home. Their choice! Why? Because a prescription is not more valuable than the safety of others!

Now, I don't want to give the impression that you shouldn't have spanish speaking boys in your unit...I'm only suggesting you step back and take a good look at what you plan to do . Just try to make sure you have all angles coverd to avoid mistakes and misunderstandings. Truth be told, having s scout who speak another language is a highy valuable tool and can be educational to both that scout and the whole den or unit he is in!

Ooops! I meant is HER son, not YOUR son.

I used to speak enough Spanish that - if you air dropped me in a spanish speaking country...I could get out or into a lot of trouble - take your pick!@ Took 2 years of spanosh in school . BUT.....Not using it continuosly..I have forgotten all but s few fundimental words and phrases. Hdere is trhe problem about stating anything about being bilingual: What if a boy joins who speaks spanish. Do you have a leader in his den rank that speaks spanish? And I say leader as a parent cam miss an essential part og the program if interpretting for the leader. Is your son going to sacrifice his activities in order to be an interpreter? What if 3 different age boys join the unit? You can't stick all 3 in one rank den and have them get a good program. Yet, you can have them seperate if you have only one person speaking their language. I wouldn't put it in the flyer unless you truely were bi lingual. And if you will have all meetings in english. what is the point? And honestly, somebody might even take that as an insult: "Yeah, we could speak your language, but we're not gong to!" Know what I mean? The whole draw and bling of the flyer was that you were bilingual. But you are not going to be bilingual. Not saying it's false advertising, but would be a huge let down and the spanish speaking scouts "could" feel like they were misled.

being as I am the Cub Scout camp promoter for my district , I decided to get some feedback on what everybody in my district thought. I sent e-mails and spoke at meetings and RT's before the resident camp, but went an extra step and asked everybody to give me feedback which I passed along to the DE, PD, and CD. I asked what they thopught overall, and wanted to know what they liked/ disliked, what they would like to see more of/ less of. What they would like to see added/ deleted form the program. And I asked what they think could have been done differently/ better and how THEY would have done it. Then I explained how the whole thing depends on volunteers and that just like running any den, pack, or unit event - camp programs are subject to the same issues. I let everybody know that the staff was all volunteer and most of us drove over 2 hours each way AND worked all three sessions instead of just attending one session. I put over 500 miles on my truck just getting to and from camp those 3 times alone. NO, not saying it makes everything alright, but I am saying camp wasn't run by a retained professionally PAID staff. Anyways, I took that feedback and explained what were misunderstandings and misconceptions on alot of the attendees parts, and I also apologized and explained the failings and let downs on our part. I also explained trhe Murphy's law incidents that happened also. In the end, we ended up with a "whatch for guide" for next year as well as a "expect this" guide for the units Biggest issue I dealt with was people showing up to camp without any med forms even though I repeatedly told unit leaders to make sure to have them. Parents kept saying : Oh, we filled those out already 2 years ago!" or " We did that already, I'm not filling out another!" I ended up making a sign and hanging it outside registration: " You must have or fill out a med form. WE do not have your old ones and do not have acces to your current ones. Current means you fill out a new one every year!" We stuck a table outside and had 300 extra med forms and about 40 pens at the ready.