ScouterPaul

Bob I think that this is one of those "murky" situations. The Scout Handbook says one thing. The Tour Permit says another. I just read a blank permit and it states: Boy Scouts of America Policy requires at least two adult leaders on all camping trips and tours. The adult leader in charge of this group must be at least 21 years old. Also, under the Mode of transportation there is a block for hiking and a block for other. My understanding is that a tour permit is required for all activities. Like I said "murky".

scoutmom - With the power invested by myself I do hereby make you a Southerner. I graduated High School (so many years ago) in Conn. I just got back from 3 days of Wood Badge Training and am I ever pumped up!! I really like the tone of the recent posts.

Thank you DD for responding to my question. I've only read your reply once, please allow me time to digest it. My off the cuff response is this: Would it be acceptable to you if only the commandments pertaining to illegal acts, such as murder, stealing ect., be posted with a statement to the effect that these tenets of various religions have played an important role in the formation of the American legal system? As to your second part "Respectfully Paul, Im not sure that you ever responded to one of my queries previous while I answered to both yours and Bobs questions with regards to your imperfect analogy on the other thread. And, I still look forward to those responses, I hold no resentment and am happy to answer this question." Allow me the time to review the thread in question (I'll be scouting Friday,Saturday and Sunday). I believe that I didn't respond to you because you only answered portions of my questions. Once again allow me to review the posts to see if I'm wrong. Which I might add my wonderfull wife says I am all the time.

scoutmom are you also from south of the Mason Dixon Line. I noticed you used y'all. Kentucky myself. Let's see Monday - Troop Meeting, Tuesday - Committee Meeting, Wednesday - Religious Education for my 4 boys, Thursday - Blue and Gold Banquet, Friday Saturday and Sunday Woodbadge training. How come I get the feeling that I'm not unique among the posters to these forums.

I believe that I'm doing this correctly. Bump to OGE

Has anyone had success with selling mulch as a fundraiser. If so, could you give me some details. I think this would be a profitable activity.

Dedicated Dad Now that I've been drawn into this debate I would like to ask you a question. Let me preface my comments with the statement that I am strongly in favor of seperation of church and state. I do not want government in my religion. My question to you is: In plain lanquage why is it so important to YOU that the Ten Commandments be posted on public property? This is a sincere and honest question.

sctmom I think your son is one lucky young man.

Mr. SlontWowy If you had taken the time your would have noticed that I have stayed out of this debate and the debate on home schooling. I've done this because I fail to see how they pertain to Scouting. I stand for 100% of what Boy Scouts Stand for. I am however against the few who choose to make their personal predjudices those of the BSA. I feel that I have a right to work within the system to change the system. Contrary to serveral posts in other threads I believe that a healthy debate between Scouters is working within the system. I didn't know that is was a requirement to agree 100% with everything that an organization or country for that matter stands for. It does my heart good to know that you unfailing agree with and follow every law on the books of our great country and the state that you reside. Because should you disagree perhaps "I'll take a page from cjmiam's book and ask - if your are so upset with the Boy Scouts and the United States, why don't you (a) form your own youth organization,(b) renounce your US citizenship (presuming you have it) and go to a country that better represents your beliefs, such as the Netherlands or Denmark, © both (a) and (b), or (d) realize that you might not be right and be quiet"

yarrow You'll need the obvious of course. I recommend and least 1 dutch oven to start with. I also recommend the following: Charcoal chimmney, tongs, heavy gloves and a lid lifter. As to recipes there are tons of them on the internet. My neighbors think that I'm quite strange. I use my dutch ovens like some people use their grills. I love to play around with recipes. I can feed 50 - 60 people with 4 - 6 dutch ovens and a box oven.

Rooster, I agree in principal with most of what you wrote. Healthy debate is Healthy. I understand your desire to take a sabatical from the Politics and Issues forum. I myself have on several occassions vowed to stop reading and posting. However, I'm drawn to the forum like a moth to light. Please do not cease posting to the other forums. Even though we might disagree on some issues I feel that you have a lot to offer and that I might learn from your scouting experience Yours in scouting

Rooster, Are you in favor of slavery? It would appear by your logic that you are. What if some of these churches who in 1910 had a stance that homosexuality was immoral felt that slavery was moral in the 1700's. Therefore based on your logic slavery would still remain moral. I don't believe that you are anyone else posting on this forum would beleive that slavery would be permissible. My point is that throughout history many beliefs have been changed. They have been changed because of advances in science, mathamatics and the evolvement of society (just to name a few). One more question. You stated that "The answer is obvious. Just like it is obvious where the founders of BSA stood in 1910." Please provide proof that the founders found homosexuality immoral.

scoutruud Welcome! I look forward to learning how you all do things. We can always learn something. In my opinion "most americans" do not agree with the posts that you've read. But as OGE stated we hold dear our right to our opinions.

scoutrudd - do you mean the Scout Sign. I was taught, and teach it myself, that the three fingers represents the three parts of the Scout Oath and that the circle formed by the thumb and pinky finger represents the worldwide circle, the bond that unites, of scouting.

We were an "orphan pack" until this year. We have started up our own Troop. I've been involved as a parent and leader for three years. During that time we graduated 23 Webelos. I am aware of only 1 boy who is still active and he is close to dropping out. I've been a Webelos leader for two years and out of 9 Webelos 2's this year all 9 are joining our new Troop. We (the Cubmaster, myself and the other Webelos leader) feel that our success is due entirely to turning the Webelos program from a "school" type program to an outdoors one. We have 4 Webelos campouts every year and practice Scout skills (cooking, compass, knots ect.) every meeting. We sacrificed the number of activity badges that the boys earned. But they were having fun and doing what the boys liked doing. Sst3rd I think that your answer is with the COR who is also an ASM. The COR selects the Cubmaster perhaps he/she can recruit someone to take over which might breath new life into the pack. I assume that the Troop and Pack meet on different nights. Perhaps you can hold some Troop activities on the nights that the Pack meets. Let the Cub Scouts see the older Boys Scouts doing "neat and cool" stuff. Sometimes you have to take the bull by the horns. Good luck and keep up the good work. Your Scouts will benifit from your efforts.

There are many good examples on the net. I've had quite a bit of success with my search engine. I'm writing a manual for both our Pack and Troop.

John ASM Specialist- What a great idea. Can I have your permission to use it?

OGE - You hit it on the head. Have fun! What is Scouting if the boys don't have fun. I also agree with OGE's philosophy of working on scout skills and wait until the boys are older to work on merit badges.

The Districts in our Council all have their own Merit Badge Council List which to my knowledge is current. Furthermore it is frowned upon when an Eagle candidate has a majority of Merit Badge Councelors from withing his own Troop. In my opinion it helps the Scout grow if he expands his universe outside of his comfort zone.

Dedicated Dad I'm disapointed that you find my "interuption" "ridiculus" and choose not to respond. Is this because you choose to use definitions only when they support your argument and choose to ignore them when they don't? I'm not trying to get off topic I'm providing you an opportunity to show how you reached your position. As I believe TJ has asked on several occassions. You asked "how is coitus interruptous aberrant?" Read the definition of Coitus, Coitus interuptus and explain to me how it isn't based on your statement "Homosexuality or same-sex sodomy, is an aberrant sexual practice especially when habitual and preferred to normal coitus." I didn't say that coitus interruptous was sodomy I said that based on the literal definition of coitus is was aberrant. You asked "How is the use of condoms habitual sodomy?" Once again I did not say that it was. I said that it made me a practitioner of other than normal coitus. I did state that based on definition oral copulation is sodomy. You also asked "How are any of these practices habitual and preferred over coitus when coitus is involved?. According to the Meriam Webster's Dictionary the definition of habitual is 3:resorted to on a regular basis. So unless there is a flaw in my logic you have implied that I'm immoral and not eligible to be a Scouter. I believe your argument is as follows (I apologize if I get this wrong I trust that you will set me straight) Sodomy = Perversion Perversion = Immoral

Dedicated Dad You have indirectly implied that I am an immoral person. You have relied on definitions, provided by the Merriam Websters Dictionary, of several words. I must make a confession I am an avowed married (20 years) hetrosexual with absolutely no homosexual tendacies. However bason on your logic and reliance upon definitions I am immoral. You stated ""Homosexuality"=same-sex sodomy" based on definition I agree. You also stated "is an aberrant sexual practice" again based on definition I agree. You then stated "especially when habitual and preferred to normal coitus." Based on your strict reliance on definitions many of the current BSA leadership would be expelled for being immoral. According to the Tenth Edition ot The Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary the definiton of sodomy is 1: copulation with a member of the same sex or with an animal 2: non coital and esp. anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposit sex Aberrant 1: straying from the right or normal way 2: deviating from the usual or natural type Coitus - physical union of male and female genitalia accompanied by rhythmic movements usu. leading to the ejaculation of semen from the penis into the female reproduction tract Allow me to apologize for the following: My wife and I practice oral copulation, coitus interruptus and utilize the use of condoms. I believe that based on definitions this would make me guilty of sodomy and a habitual practitioner of other than normal coitus. I believe that once again based on definiton this would make me perverted. I am offended that you would accuse me of being in agreement with incest and bestiality.

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Dedicated Dad A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, couryeous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. I think you have crossed the line.

Dedicated Dad Please help me out. I'm trying to make sure that I correctly understand your basic argument. Are you saying that homosexuality is immoral and for thar reason alone homosexuals should not be allowed as members of the BSA?

Patti It sounds like you will be an excellent Webelos Leader. I'm in my second year as a Webelos Leader. Training, Training and Training!! Make sure you take Webelos Outdoor Training this will help you greatly. I made the decision during my first year to not attempt to earn each of the activity badges but to earn at least the minimum number for AOL. This allowed me to spend time working on Scouting Skills all of my Scouts are proficient in knots, have experience in firebuilding and cooking. I have a Patrol of 12 boys, first year and second year Webelos combined. I divide each meeting into three areas and divide the boys into groups of four and rotate them through each area. This keeps them focused and less likely to "push and shove". This also helped me to get the parents involved since I require two adults for each area. To give you an idea of a sample meeting we might have the following activities: knot tying, first aid work and dutch oven cooking. The last part of my meeting we will play a game of some sort and finsh with a snack that the boys prepared. I agree with Bob White it is important to get the Scouts outdoors. We try to take three to four Webelos campouts (car camping) per year. We've also attended two Orienteering Meets.