SagerScout

Tell me about your proudest moments as a Scout leader or parent - either proudest ever, or recent proud moment -

Watching my son volunteer to teach six dozen Webelos how to tie knots at day camp this year was a recent proud moment.

Can't decide on proudest ever - maybe watching him at a very stormy summer camp last year - dealing with his lightning phobia. Or it might have been when he made Star. Or perhaps when he helped his buddy with HIS spider phobia. I dunno.

Light saber training - how cool! Gotta remember that one!

We just did 20,000 leagues under the sea, with ocean themed activities.

KoreaScouter -

My son, age 15, has expressed some interest in martial arts. He's a chair-potato outside of Scouting, and has a history of both asthma and severe anxiety issues - both under good control now, with only occasional medications. He rarely loses his temper - his sister can do it, but no one else.

Is it too late for him to start? What should I look for in a dojo?

Swimming stamina is a function of two things: physical fitness and stroke efficiency. If you have less of one, you need more of the other. More lessons, to develop stroke efficiency, is a great idea. The boy can and most likely will, eventually, be able to pass the swim test as written as long as unreasonable expectations about speed are not established, and those around him are just patient with his developing skills. And it will do him good to try, assuming he likes swimming anyway as most boys do and assuming his doctor agrees (which surely he does since he's going for lessons).

Why am I so sure he can accomplish this? Well, it's like this: a few years ago I had a longterm severe illness featuring mind-numbing musculoskeletal pain and extreme fatigue, 24/7, complete with tachycardia and extreme shortness of breath. During the worst of it I took a treadmill stress test which was stopped affter 4 minutes since my heart rate was 200, and I was dizzy - while walking 2.5 miles per hour on a level surface. I could not sit up and hold a conversation as I would lose my breath. My stamina was ZERO - I'd have to shop in a scooter. But during all of this I could still swim every 2 or 3 days (It would take 48 hours to recover from the slightest exertion). It took me FOREVER. Had to modify my stroke, as the pain in my neck and shoulders usually didn't allow enough rotation for a normal forward crawl. Often had to switch strokes to whatever hurt least in mid-lap. On a bad day I'd have to roll on my back for a few gasps. But I could still make it. Yes, it's true that there were a few days when I had to go home with less than 5 laps (in a 25 meter pool). But other days I made 20.

Just be patient. He can do it. It might not be this week or next month but he can do it. If he gets physical therapy, or could get it, the parents could ask the PT to help develop the muscles he'll need.

One other thing that might help, if possible: a WARM pool will help a lot. He'll relax, which means he'll float better, plus he will use up less energy just keeping his little body warm.

OK, I guess I am going to have to talk to the OA advisor, as so many smart people have told me to do.

The Scoutmaster told my husband at the last meeting that it was "too late" for OA elections for a summer camp tap-out next month. He says elections are held a year ahead of time- can that possibly be true? My husband feels he was just stalling since we only have 2 or maybe 3 boys in the troop that are even maybe eligible, none of them the Scoutmasters.

I hate to sound like a parent seeking recognition for my own son but frankly, I am. I think he's been a great scout and a great camper and has overcome a lot of personal issues to do it.

Almost all the boys in our troop managed to come up with full uniforms, mostly because the troop strongly supports doing honor guard duty at a couple of local ceremonies (Veteran's day and Memorial Day) and full uniform is unconditionally required for these events.

Having caused the parents to spend the $$$, the SM is not shy about telling the boys to wear them to get their money's worth!

I personally am the proud owner of both the uniform pants and shorts - but I find them both stiff, itchy and uncomfortable despite having been washed and worn quite a bit. The fabric doesn't breathe in summer, nor does it dry in anything like a reasonable length of time, forcing me to wear either clean, soggy shorts or not-clean dry shorts to dinner every other day at summer camp. I can't wash them after morning flag and have them dry in time for dinner. Uggh. But I wear them.

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No, but over 700 perfectly legal immigrants from potentially "problematic" countries were detained - without charges, and without counsel - for periods of up to 9 months, including a well-respected local physician. All were released, because hey! they didn't do anything wrong and we figured that out. An additional number - I don't know how many - were deported because they had been found to have overstayed their visas. (This, I have no problem with - rules are rules...)

In Tulia, Tx, a large number of black citizens were imprisoned on drug charges due to the testimony of one drug enforcement officer - good work, you say? Oops, my bad, he's an admitted perjurer that just doesn't like black men. He fabricated evidence and lied under oath in order to lock 'em up.

Freedom is not free. Part of the price is that sometimes we have to take a risk of leaving a guilty person on the street, in order to ensure that we do not lock up an innocent one. This 4th grade civics lesson was apparently missed by a significant number of members of the current administration.

Now, can different races live in harmony? Absolutely. I give you the celebration of the NBA CHAMPION SPURS - where 300,000 people of all races came together on the Riverwalk in San Antonio to clap for one of the the classiest bunch of athletes that any city could claim. 70,000 met in the Alamodome to sniffle at the thought that our beloved Admiral is retiring - and laugh at Steve Kerr's wisecracks, and be proud of Tony Parker for being a man and being happy that Speedy had his back on a bad day - and ask via sign for Manu Ginobili to marry us... Oh, what? Those guys are black, white, FRENCH, Chinese, Argentinian you say? Who cares? Half the Spurs fans are Mexican-American.

No riots, no cars turned over, no fights - just a huge party. One tragic death in a traffic accident just after the game, to mar one family's glee forever - but it really was just an accident, not even a drunk driver involved.

If it can happen for one night, one day, one week, maybe soon it will happen all nights, all days, all weeks. Pray for it!

My troop had a scout not have his rank confirmed - I think it was 2cd class. The boy is young, and I believe he was

flippant with the committee (most likely due to nerves). They asked about his 5 mile hike with compass, and he had no memory of doing it - and had no explanation of how it came to be signed off in his book. A few months later he made the rank.

On the Eagle projects, I was a little surprised at what was considered an Eagle project for the one that was approved in our troop. The boy raised some money with a car wash to buy materials and plants to landscape a nursing home, as well as build some raised planters for the residents. The troop had a workday to accomplish it. The boy got some pizza donated for the workers. The adults did all the lumber cutting and the tilling, as the council board told the boy that scouts could not use any power tools (see my other thread for my opinion of the stupidity of this). I do think the older boys were eventually allowed to use electric screwdrivers. All work was complete by 3 pm, with all 9 boys in the troop helping and about 3 adults.

It was a good service, don't get me wrong, and well-organized. I'm sure the nursing home appreciated it very much. And maybe there was a lot more that I didn't see happen. But it just didn't seem that tough to me to earn the most recognized scouting award in the US.

Ryon -

congratulations for your election to SPL and let me tell you, I'm impressed that you are working at this so hard and trying to get this situation figured out.

Sounds like you're on the right track with the games ideas,and silvershark and Eagledad are both giving you good tips. But if I have to guess I'd guess you're having trouble getting your patrols to do some real basic stuff- like plan meals for campouts and junk like that. If that's right, let me suggest that you put your main chore-type items in writing and hand them to the PL's. In our small troop,same size as yours, we don't plan different meals by patrol but the whole troop eats the same stuff. So one patrol plans half the meals for a campout and the other plans the other half. When we tried to do it in a big group like "OK, every one, what do y'all want to eat" it was chaos -lots of talking, no decisions. When the SPL wised up and told the Cobra PL to come back with a grocery list for his menu plans, and the Rattlesnakes to come back with their lists - in writing, with quanitities, and with a time limit - it waas still chaos but at a much lower level and we did in fact end up with menus and grocery lists. And the PL's got a much better feel for what you are going through!

You need to get your PL's working for you, and the way to do that is to use them to communicate with their boys. So, if a kid's out of line you ask his patrol leader to handle it. Don't yell, don't fuss, this isn't the Army - but pretty soon when the patrol leaders recognise that you are holding them responsible for their patrols they will start acting responsible.

And as others have already said - keep it moving, fast, and keep it interesting so no one wants to miss anythihng.

Applicable for any BOR, IMHO -

Best time as a Scout? Worst time as a Scout?

One boy at first class BOR said - Best = summer camp, hands down .... worst = honor guard at Memorial day service ... 2.5 hours at attention in uniform in hot sun. He then went on to add that the worst time really taught him something about respect for the miillitary and their sacrifices, and he was glad that he had done it. His eloquence on the subject blew away the committee members.

I've stopped filling in the voluntary race disclosures on forms, not that I'm embarrassed to be white but that I'm getting irritated at being asked to file myself in a subset of the human race.

My beloved step-daughters, all half Mexican-American (Astec - how DO you spell that?) lived with us during their elementary years. The oldest, who looks like the model for a Disney Indian Princess, was a poor math student in 4th grade despite good attitude and effort. Concerned about her, I asked for several teacher conferences and was assured that the teacher felt she was doing just fine.

Some years later, my son - quite white - was a simillarly poor student at the same school. The teacher called ME to express her concern about his performance, and to examine all our options for helping him.

My conclusion, reluctantly reached, is that the expectations for my brown daughter were lower than those for my white son. Whether due to race or gender, I have no idea. I do NOT believe it was conscious at all - these teachers were fine and dedicated professionals.

The answer? I don't know - but I think dsteele's prayer is a good place to start. And parents of children of color - oh, and poverty too - need to be alert to lowered expectations for their children.

From other posts, it's reasonable to guess LauraT7 wasn't trying to be rude. I'm sure you agree that your severe asthma is quite a different beast than the mild and easily managed asthma that some have - and perhaps LauraT7 has only run into those asthmatics. Still and all, it IS worth pointing out that asthma is a condition that (a) is generally not curable, and (b) has the unfortunate potential endpoint of death.

As the parent of a child with moderately severe asthma, I don't mean to minimize the risk at all. On at least 3 occasions my son's been a lot closer to going home to God than we wanted. When he was 4, I thought he died in the back seat on the 7-minute drive to the hospital once. He'd been coughing uncontrollably even after his neb treatment at home, I decided it was past time to go and that it would be faster to take him than wait for the ambulance - and about two blocks from our house the coughing in the back seat suddenly stopped, to be replaced by an eerie silence. He'd passed out completely, but was still breathing, thank God. I didn't know that, though, as getting to the ER was my priority. You would be surprised at how fast a VW Rabbit can go on an empty street at 4 am.

So, we have emergency plan upon emergency plan - pocket inhalers all the time, notarized "authority to treat" in his pocket, he's the only 15-year old I know that carries his own insurance card, back at camp we have the peak flow meter, nebulizer and meds, and emergency oral steroids.... but he still goes. The goal of treatment is a normal life. He lives a normal life, which includes scouting. Most of the time the extra junk is extra junk. Once in a while we need it, and are glad to have it.

We try not to borrow trouble, if he's already rocky or catching a cold, we'll stay home. But we also don't see any sense in staying home because of what MIGHT happen.

Let me get back to this: how ARE the boys in this troop who do NOT have medical exemptions supposed to earn their camping badge, especially if the camping must be BSA camping as I have been told? My own son is OK on this one, as he was in two troops before this one and has many more than 20 nights camping. Yet the boys in this troop are only going every once in a long while. It's going to be a problem for some of them. I still want to deliver the promise for all of them.

Random thoughts -

I agree with fboisseau, this is a problem parent. If she can be put to work in another area during your meetings, thus allowing you and your wife to deal with her son directly, I would be willing to bet that it will help. It's the same concept as having her drop him off but without the exclusionary message.

Code of conduct - absolutely a great idea. The shorter the better. "No hitting. No spitting. No namecalling. Signs up, mouths shut." Consequences listed. First offense, second, etc. Written apologies are good consequences for serious boy-on-boy violence or insults. Require complete sentences, although short is OK, and no returning to the fun until done.

Then be careful to enforce it on your "good" kids as well as your God's Gift child. You'll be surprised at how often namecalling shows up, and you will be surprised how often it comes from your "good" kids. (Yer a baby!) All the Moms and Dads need to know that bad behavior, particularly disrespectful or mean behavior, is simply not tolerated in cub scouting, from any child. A big sign on the wall should communicate it pretty well to everyone. You can then read it to P.C.'s Mom if necessary.

You can keep a VISIBLE tally mark on the wall for the meeting on how many infractions of the code you've observed each night, and if the number is low offer verbal recognition and thanks. "Wow, guys, only two marks tonight! Ya'll did great! You know, I sure have more fun when you guys are nice to each other." I realize that many teachers and leaders offer tangible rewards (stickers and candies and so on) but I personally disagree as it fosters the What Will You Give Me If I'm Good attitude.

A normal cub den WILL- I might go so far as to say SHOULD - exhibit loud and/or rowdy behavior. Within limits of good sense relating to safety and the muffling capacity of your earplugs this is not a reason for concern. You do carry earplugs, do you not? NO? Essential equipment for anyone working with kids under 12...you can actually hear conversation just fine, but don't tell the kids. If you never have rowdy meetings, you should probably find some new games and activities, you're missing some fun. But rude and disrespectful behavior is NOT ok, period, I don't care what the diagnosis is. My son had issues that came off looking disrespectful at times - he shuts down - and we always, always, always have removed him from the scene when these occur. We didn't necessarily punish him as the behavior was not under his control, but we never told any volunteer they had to deal with it either. Any activity where it might come up, one of us attended. (His school teachers were paid for it, that's different, and we did everything we could to help them too.)

Do you have a reasonably mature den chief available, or another parent (not mom) that would be willing to keep an eye on him for you? The example of an older boy might help. Especially valuable would be one with an ADHD diagnosis himself, if you can find one.

There is no need to lower the ESSENTIAL behavior standards for ADHD children. Most are perfectly capable of being good cubs and good scouts. Standards that should not be modified include those regarding hitting, respect, namecalling, and bullying. "Standards" that may be worth negotiation include whether to sit, stand, or sprawl on the floor for working on a task, or opting to work with a small group rather than a large one. I've written ad infinitum on the subject in other threads, so won't repeat myself here.

In other threads I have come out strongly in favor of enforcing swimming as an essential scouting skill, period. If my couch-potato, asthmatic son can pass that BSA swimming test, any boy can if he's got both arms. For that matter, I would guess that many boys without both arms can still do it.

All that said, but...

a) If I read the original post correctly, the boy does in fact technically meet the requirements for the trip (has his swimming badge)? The first question is whether or not the risk is real or imagined on the part of the parents. If the parents do see the risk as significant, and are in possession of a realistic preview of the requirements of the trip - well, the answer is clear. He sits this one out or a strong-swimmer parent goes with him to take the responsibility. Odds are neither parent is a strong swimmer (just because water-lovers tend to have water-babies), so he might have to miss this one ). Oh, well, maybe next year. Delayed gratification isn't that bad a thing, despite our Fast Food society. Aspiring to be bigger, stronger, and more skilled is a good thing.

No other boy should be tasked with a life-saver duty on such a trip. That suggestion is not even worth serious discussion. And hiring a lifeguard is pretty absurd to me too. If that's the level of risk of this trip, the boy isn't up to it. Not a disgrace, might be a disappointment, as I said before, Oh Well. Send him to the public pool every day this summer and see how he does next year. Here in San Antonio, the pools are free, so there's not much excuse for a non-swimming teen here.

BUT the other point I wanted to make was this:

b) I'm a good swimmer, and in my younger days was a very good swimmer. But the times I've dumped canoes or kayaks in fast water, the ability to swim was pretty much a non issue - it was more about just keeping my head and posterior up, feet downstream so I could see what was about to happen to me, and letting my lifejacket do its job. The best you can do is sort of paddle to steer and paddle toward the bank if that's where you want to head. Once I was caught in a hydraulic under a low-water dam once, in a location that claimed a victim every couple of years. I'm here to tell you, swimming skills are totally useless with a ton of water a minute falling on top of you. You have to know to go down, not up (work with the water, not against it.) That's a lot easier to learn than the whipkick, thank goodness.

One of the reasons I hate to windsurf in lakes is that you pretty much must wear a lifejacket - and catching up to a windsurfer in a lifejacket is like chasing a two-yearold with your ankles tied together. The award-winning forward crawl I spent five college semesters perfecting is almost useless. The usefull stroke with a lifejacket on is wayyyy different.

So my point is, the essential skills for survival with a lifejacket on are not really the same as sheer "swimming" skills - and are considerably more quickly acquired. Assuming a certain basic level of swimming, perhaps the training could switch to these skills and the boy and his parents might find that he's more ready than everyone thinks.

After our Report to Austin parade, I took my son and his buddy, both still in Class A uniform, on the trolley and out to lunch. In both areas, members of the public greeted them with interest and enthusiasm, and yes, with far more respect than most 13-14 year old boys ever get. The boys noticed the difference in how others responded to them.

One of them, however, then came to the conclusion and stated that he didn't mind the recognition in another city in his uniform - but he still wants to be sure none of his friends know....

Thanks for all y'alls help. It honestly had not occurred to me to try a weekender at the camp, that's a good idea. I'll run it by my son and see what he thinks. He likes the kids in this troop very well, but wishes they weren't quite such, ummm, homebodies.

Last year we went to an out-of-council camp because I was hoping the SM's sons would be able to go, and they have an easier time with the flora in that area. They cancelled at the last minute. This year I told the boys we could go whereever they chose, and one of the boys would have gone back to Karankawa in a heartbeat but my son wanted to go to the in-council camp, where the facilities are somewhat better. He cajoled the other over to his side. The possibility of having camperships available and maybe increasing the numbers that way helped tip the scales to staying in our own council - but no boys applied for them. Two were going to, but then their moms heard about the Filthy Latrines.

I've been there. They aren't filthy. They just aren't flush toilets. The showers are the nicest I've seen anywhere. The food was mediocre but we won't starve.

This is a home-schooled troop and I notice that PTC has a training program on scouting for the homeschooled in September- I'm thinking seriously about trying to get to it as I do find that working with the homeschooler population is somewhat different than working with public schoolers. Mostly, it's better, as the kids tend to be mature and respectful. But I'm wondering if the wizards at Philmont have any suggestions for encouraging the parents to le-e-e-e-e-t go.

We are already taking the only 3 boys who want to go to camp. The other 6 will not go because of one or more of the following: they heard it is hot, the latrines are dirty, their parents can not go because of work, there might be bugs, they might have asthma problems (which objection does apply to my own son, but we don't consider it a reason to stay home, just a reason to pack drugs), and mom has never heard anything good about camp.

There's little reason to go for merit badges as the troop provides optional merit badge classes with very generous counselors on a weekly basis.

My son is going to try to set up his patrol for a mid-week campout somewhere nearby (mid-week so that the park won't be too crowded. ) We'll see how it goes.

Julia

Well, I posted a reply under the other thread. My son likes the boys in this troop and they like him. I agree that it would be easier to start fresh but, well, my son likes the kids. So I'm in suck it up and try to fix it mode - which is why my husband and I took 2 boys to camp last year, why we're taking a big THREE this year, and why I keep trying to informally teach the other parents on the methods of scouting so they'd know them if they saw them. So far it isn't working well but they're not running me out of town on a rail either. I was kind of hoping in uncharitable moments that maybe the SM would be too busy once his boys aged out and then the CO would be looking for another SM - but, well, I'm sort of female and I'm not sure I'd be asked because of that, and the SM recently told me that he plans to serve the troop until the last current boy makes Eagle. (showing one problem right there....)

I think the idea of working with my son to plan some patrol activities is great, and we'll get back to you on it.

Thanks, everyone. For the general information pile, yes, I'm both a registered ASM and a trained leader. I'm also a volunteer in the GS program, and a volunteer trainer for the girl scouts. The SM is trained, and a great guy whose feelings I would never want to hurt - but he's of a personality that rejects information received that does not fit his world view.

I found out today that we've had 4 boys drop out. Wonder why? So we're down to 9.

My son's patrol is only 4 boys - one of them is one of the scoutmaster's 3 sons- but I'd be tickled to see them go camp together, and am perfectly OK with helping make it so. There is, however, a shortage of other parents to come along, although my husband would be willing.

On balance, the nice thing about this troop is that it does provide a place for some boys who are NOT super-jock kids, and who DO have genuine health issues. My own son is in this category too - asthma and anxiety. While in the welcoming and comfortable lap of this troop he has made great strides - GREAT strides, I can't say it loud enough - in his ability to cope, which is why I'm not too anxious to remove him or us. For instance, last summer he had an humiliating anxiety-driven lockup in a canoe in a scout canoe race, and after a quick briefing on his anxiety problems the boys were all totally supportive, no teasing about it at all. Pretty hard to find that level of acceptance anywhere, and the irony of it is that I think that the acceptance is what has improved him so much. It hasn't happened since. (The unmerciful harassment he experienced in public school over similar types of problems had him ready for the insane asylum.)

But to return to the down side, the troop has only had two overnight camping opportunities since December - one in January, and they didn't stay over because the SM's wife (the COR and CC) fell and broke a bone in her wrist (we were out of state and couldn't attend), and then the local camporee. The SM camped with us but his sons weren't well and went home to sleep, which I considered reasonable. But, well, gee, overall, that's not much camping, is it? My girl scouts go further and do more, and they are considerably younger than the average in this troop.

I think I will try the subtle approach and try to get my son onboard as a true boy leader of his patrol, and see what we can work out. Stand by for reports.

OK, last year I started a thread about convincing parents about summer camp. As it happened, we took 2 boys that year, and they had a blast. (See OA advice sought thread)

This year, the same two plus one young scout are going. The reason I think we have such a poor turnout? I believe it is the scoutmaster.

His attitude has strongly discouraged his sons from trying it - which has also, of course, discouraged all the younger scouts' parents from letting THEM try it. I mean, the LATRINES are FILTHY. He actually said that to the troop and parents the night I was trying to promote signing up for camp. Two parents decided then and there that their sons would not be going. Of course, while they are composting latrines and thus are hardly rose gardens, if they are filthy whose fault is that, when your troop is the only one at that site? The irony is that the troop did camp on the beach and is going to again - where there are very public port-a-potties (yech). The sea air doesn't trigger the asthma. ( I hate camping on the beach. But I'll go and keep my mouth shut about the grit. Actually, keeping my mouth shut will reduce the grit...now there's a benefit.... )

What's an ASM to do? I feel that we're failing to deliver the promise in this troop, and the only reason the boys are generally happy in it is that they don't know how good it COULD be. Any advice?

Julia

Our troop of 13 has exactly one OA member, who became an OA member when in another troop. He is active in the local lodge.

The scoutmaster's 3 sons, all Life Scouts of 16 and17, are not eligible for OA as not one has ever attended a long-term camp, and I don't know if they've totted up 15 days total camping - if so, barely. They have severe asthma and outdoor allergies. They've had alternate badges approved for Eagle. For practical purposes they are the senior leadership of the troop - the oldest is SPL, another is the JASM, and the troop really doesn't have a functioning PLC. Although my son is a PL, there has not been a PLC meeting since his election in January. Basically the SPL, his brothers, his dad the SM and his mom the COR make most of the decisions or the troop as a whole votes. Naturally, they really have no interest in promoting camping, except the short beach campouts that they are able to do, especially as the SM will not let his sons camp without him. Hence, no interest in promoting or arranging OA membership.

But here's the problem: We have two boys - one is mine - who would love to be tapped out. One is First Class, mine is a Star scout. They went to an out-of-council camp last year together (they were the only two from our troop to go). It was the fourth summer camp for my son and the first for the other boy. They are going again this year to our council camp. Both camp outside of Scouts - have to, since our troop doesn't camp much because of the SM's sons asthma. They both have participated in almost every service project and Eagle project the troop has done all year- including several car washes, workday at the nursing home (Eagle project), and honor guard at the Memorial day service - a miserable three hours standing in the sun, and they are both coming back for it this year again despite knowing how tedious it is. They wear their uniforms correctly. My son has volunteered as a den chief and wants to be a staffer at cub camp this summer. The two of them want to try backpacking with me and my young adult son pretty soon. I think they'd be great Arrowmen, both of them, and I think I would say that even if one off them weren't mine. But how can they be when they're supposed to be elected in this troop that doesn't even talk about it? And how would the troop know who the good campers are when they rarely camp together?

Anyway, I'll be at summer camp this year with these two and one other new scout from our troop. I really hate to sit through the call-out and watch these two deserving and motivated scouts be passed up one more time. Can someone advise me?

I've evolved to a few pretty small plastic tubs with lids. Used to use larger ones but they're harder to pack in the van and cause wasted space. Plus, if you limit the container size you can get away with a lot less than you think. Just THINK before you leave.

Recent addition to the plan is an inventory list taped to the inside of the lid, and lid/tub crossreference numbers in paint pen. Helps the scouts sort out and check contents when coming home, and speeds up packing going out. We use yellow stickies to note deficiencies that need to be corrected before the next trip, or if something is pulled for another service between trips.

There's usually also a small emergency ration box in the van too - it has the makings for an extra campfire treat (cobbler or such) and a few other goodies, on the off chance that we run out of food or have spare time. As far as I can recall, we've never used it ourselves but we did donate some makings to another troop that came lightly prepared.

Julia

What splinter organization did they join? what does it have that GS doesn't?

My girls like the 2B bracelet but haven't looked at what they need to do to earn charms at all.

julia

I rather like the GSUSA answer to this problem. The medications and dosages are listed on the medical form. The meds and the form go to the first aid adult in charge, in their original prescription containers with accurate doses listed. That adult does have a responsibility for making sure the kids get it when they're supposed to, but there's not a big judgement issue involved since it's all in writing. When that adult is ME, I put each kid's meds in a baggie with a stick on label and record the date/time of doses on the label. Yes, I guess there's a responsibility thing there but gee, it's not too much different from the responsibility of making sure everyone wears their shoes at camp or gets to the mess hall on time for lunch - while it is true that meds should be taken precisely on schedule, it is also true that for 90% of the meds that we're talking about, 30 minutes one way or the other is not a big deal. For most kids, being late to lunch is a more serious health hazard.

On the medical forms, there is a place for the child's current weight in case OTC meds are needed. There is a checklist of common OTC items that the parent can initial permissions for use - including, BTW, sunscreen and bug repellent as well as the more obvious aspirin/acetominophen, Tums, cough syrup, and so on. Some kids are allergic to some sunscreens and borrowing "troop" sunscreen or another child's can ruin a kid's day if that's the case. The medical forms are on the person of the troop first aid person or leader all the time. ALL the time. Think belt pack. No opportunity for any other interested parties to look 'em over. Some troops reduce them in size, I just fold mine up tight. Minimal basic first aid kit is also on the same person all the time, and I mean while walking, eating, building a fire, going to the john, whenever. A child wants an aspirin, it's in the belt pack of the first aid person or troop leader, and so is the form that says whether or not that's OK with Mom and Dad. This doesn't have to be hard.

About the rusty knife. A boy should not be at summer camp without a current tetanus shot. Period. My son will require a huge dose of Xanax to be able to get his, but he will by golly have it. Any physician that would let a teen boy go to camp unprotected by TT would be highly exposed to suit.

All of this said, when I had a Brownie in my troop with a scary and complicated medical history and a really serious scheduling issue with her meds, her mom decided to volunteer as the first-aider so that she could be there to handle it. I was glad since her daughter needed eye drops every 2 hours all day, other eye drops every 6 hours, oral meds on some weird schedule with food interferences and so on. Mom's help was much appreciated. She was a good camper too. Other kids like brittle diabetics and so on have similar situations and sometimes, dadgum it, a mom or dad does have to come along because the risk is just too great for an inexperienced person to deal with. On the other hand, there's actually a whole troop of girls in my service unit, all of whom are insulin-dependent - a nurse is the troop leader, and they have tons of fun together. They just have to stay places with electricity for their portable refrigerator.

But even with the best of planning, stuff happens. As many of you know, my son has moderately severe asthma. One time he had an abrupt onset of anaphylactic-like symptoms with no warning and no apparent cause. One minute he was watching TV, cheerfully said "Hi mom" when I came in. Moments later he was standing in my home office, bright beet red from scalp to shoes, and unable to talk through his rapidly closing throat and audible raspy wheezing - the onset was so fast he couldn't even call out from the next room. We started a nebulizer treatment (he couldn't use an inhaler as he couldn't get air in very fast) and called 911. He was still rocky by the time they got here and we went to the hospital, where he was treated and released with a steroid prescription - only to be admitted a couple of days later for about a week's R&R. We never knew why the sudden onset - turned out he had a virus but it had never come on him like that before. The EMT's were just certain he'd been stung by something, but he didn't feel anything and we couldn't find a bite.

There is nothing I would have said on his medical form for an episode like that - it never happened like that before, and hasn't happened since. Thank God we were at home where the neb machine was handy, at the rate he was shutting down he could have easily just have dropped dead if we'd been at the mall or riding in the car or something like that - there's not much you can do with CPR when the throat is swollen shut, and he most likely would not have had an inhaler on him anyway since he hadn't had any asthma trouble for months and felt just fine.

NOW, would I hold a scouter liable for not saving him if that had happened at camp? Of course not - I nearly wasn't able to deal with it at home in the suburbs, with an ambulance on the way and a veritable pharmacy at my fingertips (parents of asthmatics know what I mean). Would I be very upset if that occurred and the scouter had - say - Primatene mist in his pocket -OTC epinephrine- and didn't at least attempt to use it? It easily still might not have worked , but even if absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth it might have bought a few seconds. Or if another kid had an EpiPen - no doubt prescribed for him and not my son -and didn't use it? YES I would. If it's life-threatening and coming on fast, you need to "do your best," and use WHATEVER you have - and in a case like this one, doing something, even if wrong, is probably better than doing nothing. Because doing nothing in this case would have meant death, and you didn't have to be a doctor or an EMT to know it.

Packsaddle - In my observation, you are QUITE right that a good shot of protein and a few calories will improve everyone's behavior and temperament, including the scouters.

My middle son had many, many problems arise at around 11 am. He'd then race to the cafeteria for his pizza-and-Gatorade fix. Then he'd have more problems around 3 pm. He's not ADD, he's got an anxiety disorder, but they have some commonalities. Many ADD kids can hyper-focus - my son does that to the nth degree. He'd get into trouble for not being able to switch subjects on cue. I'll never forget the day he got in terrible trouble because he would NOT put down the high-school physics book he was reading to watch the Bill Nye science video she had planned for them. (He was in 7th grade at the time). He simply could not disengage himself from the interesting subject he was learning to watch a video that he'd already seen several times anyway. We ended up in a committee meeting over it, where I found myself saying things like "Let me get this straight: he's not allowed to study science during science?"

All that said, I do think the teacher had a right to expect cooperation, but she also needed to understand how to break his concentration in a productive manner. When I asked him about the incident he had no memory of the first several minutes of discussion - he didn't hear it. Those of you with ADD scouts will often find this true. You have to say their names and get both eyes to focus on you before you can talk, else you might as well just start whistling.

Since he's been homeschooled, he eats a less sugar-laden diet, and his anxiety has improved to the point where he no longer needs medication and handles new experiences well. He's still hyperfocussing but his new teacher (me) doesn't mind much, as it seems to work well for him and lets him figure out quite a lot of stuff that other people find difficult. Like- algebra. And physics, still an interest of his.

Coincidence? I don't know. But trust me, I stack the deck when planning the grocery list.