SagerScout

BobWhite -

I guess I should also have included my opinion that it IS perfectly appropriate for the paid professionals to focus on fundraising. It is their job, after all, and I'm glad they do it and I don't.

Gosh, I have a totally different perception of scouting professionals. In the bunch I hang out with they help us in myriad ways - providing training, many program resources including a lending library and craft and camp equipment to borrow, and fine camp facilities at very reasonable cost. Yes, they push the fundraising projects pretty hard, but those same fundraisers help our troop do all kind of fun stuff with little out-of-pocket costs. When I call for help they are always tremendously kind. They greatly assisted me through a traumatic experience where I had to report a very upsetting child abuse case.

Another time when my troop had an riding accident requiring an emergency room visit for one of the Scouts and other minor injuries I called the 24-hour emergency number - on Sunday - and had a call back within 5 minutes to help me with the paperwork and the incident report. They offered to mobilize the emergency team of volunteers to come to help with the traumatized troop, (ETA 45 minutes) and a professional scout took over calming the parents of the injured parties.

On balance, they provide excellent service to support my programs.

Oh, I should make it clear that these are GIRL SCOUT professionals.

The local BSA guys seem confused on a regular basis. Infighting within the council office appears to be common. It is nearly impossible to get an actual human on the phone when you call, and if you have a problem it is a guessing game on which extension to push to get the person you need. Based on the responses to ordinary queries I would not want to have to ask for any serious support from these people at all.

If I didn't have the other example, I wouldn't know that this was poor service.

There are those that believe that God's name is Jehovah, Yahweh, Jesus, Allah. Many if not most of these are fine humans willing to serve humanity. Accepting them as my scouting companions in no way "taints" the organization.

Most churches have fine youth groups and I would encourage anyone and everyone that wants their children to have group experiences exclusively with those who are like-minded in faith to participate with their church's youth group. My son participates in ours.

If you want a different mix, Scouting (Boy or Girl) CAN offer that.

Oops, though, I gather the LDS church and perhaps some other ones use Boy Scouts as their church's youth program. This is perfectly all right with me, but I would NOT put my son into an LDS scout group as they have beliefs that are totally incompatible with my own and I would not want my son to be TAINTED with their views. Does that ruin the Boy Scouts of America? Of course not.

Likewise, I would not put my daughter into a Catholic church-sponsored girl scout group. Why not? The Catholic church is a perfectly good church which is responsible for a great deal of good work(and unfortunately some evil as well, but I digress). I believe most Catholics to be earnestly serving God. But there are some core beliefs that I do not share. Are the Girl Scouts WRONG to allow Catholic scouts? Of course not.

What about an Islamic group??? Jehovah's Witnesses??? Extreme right-wing Evangelical Christians???? Presbyterians???? Southern Baptists??? Jews??? Atheists??? I disagree in some points (from minor to VERY MAJOR ones) with all of these. Should they all be excluded from Scouting because of that? I don't think so.

So we get right back to the idea that parents can and should monitor not only the overall ideals of the groups their kids hang out with, but also the individual delivery of those ideals. My personal feelings align more closely with the Girl Scouts attitude toward religion. I feel that the Boy Scouts are absolutely wrong on a couple of major points. The national program's abuse of homosexual volunteers and scouts is at the very top of the list. The overwhelming promulgation of religious and social bigotry that I see in many troops is running a close second, and I have removed my son from a troop that I felt was promoting an intolerant and bigoted worldview. If that's how that CO wants the troop to be, fine, we just won't be there with them.

However, I see enough good in both programs to want to work with both of them to help my children grow into the fine and responsible adults I want them to be. I therefore am trying, as I know many others are, to keep my political discussions civil and at the adult level, so that they don't interfere with the fun of the scouting programs for the kids. I teach my own children how I feel about God, gay rights, the divinity of Christ, the rise of Islam, the story of creation, drug use, alcohol abuse, sex before marriage, the legalization of marijuana and many other topics of current debate, but I do not think the Scout troops I serve should get into these debates as 1. other parents may disagree with me, it is their job to talk to their own kids, and 2. we've got a campout to plan.

If you'se guys want to throw me out of both organizations because my religious beliefs disagree with some of you, write a letter. Otherwise, join the church youth program of your choice and use it to strengthen your children's faith and teaching the faith of your family, and leave the Scouting program alone.

Yes, the scoutmaster is trained. But he has something of a tendency to reject information that doesn't fit his worldview, (as we all do, of course). So when they say in training that young Scouts can, for instance, put up their own tents, he interpreted that to mean "As long as I'm there to help them and tell them how to do it." My take on that was perhaps a little far the other way. "Where's your tent, kid? Why isn't it up yet?"

...and if the peanut gallery includes homeschoolers, I'm extra-interested in your take on this as we have 10 homeschooled boys and one PS kid. The youngest is 11 but most are 13-16.

OK, I'm registered as an ASM for our troop. My husband and I took the only two boys in the troop that wanted to go to summer camp. I completed my SM training, including the outdoor elements a couple of years ago, and on a separate subject I'm a fully trained Girl Scout leader and on the council training team for the GSUSA. I conducted JLT for the troop's Junior Leaders using the JLT training kit, except that the scoutmaster's sons did not come as two out of three of them were ill that day.

So, as I came up to our scout meeting place (the SM's house),wearing my full uniform and ready for a meeting, the SM smiled in his friendly and welcoming manner (not being sarcastic, he's a genuinely nice guy that I like) and said "The ladies are inside visiting...just go on in..."

Sigh.

There are some other differences in leadership style between us, and I'm trying to be as diplomatic as possible about them. The biggest thing is that he really, really is protective about the boys and to me it communicates a lack of trust in their good sense and abilities. Example: We're talking about selling popcorn. He tells his boys, (ages 14 and 16) that they are NOT to go door-to-door selling without him or Mom, even in teams, as it "just isn't safe." These are not little kids! We're talking six foot tall and 240 pounds! Their neighborhood is older and modest but not bad. I'd let my son sell there, with a couple of buddies and a cell phone, in a heartbeat. Interestingly, his wife thinks he's way overprotective too.

Obviously, patrol activities without adults are not going to happen anytime soon as this SM is never going to approve them (if a 16 yearold can't sell popcorn on his own city block I can't imagine what patrol activities would be considered ok!) I have trouble getting the SM to let the boys light their own cooking fires and camp stoves. I don't mean to brag on my girl scouts, but they are all accomplished at these skills before middle school. Again, we are not talking about Wolf Cubs here, but kids that in other countries would already be helping support their families.

I do NOT want to leave this troop as we all totally enjoy the boys and adults there, but I can't figure out how to foster the level of independence I think is appropriate with this SM's attitude- and since he's trying to keep me in the sitting room with the wimmenfolk it's gonna be even harder.

I have asked my hubby to help as he's on the same page as I am, but he has not done his training yet and he's kind of new in Scouting. Actually, he's really new in Scouting - if I hadn't had to drag him to summer camp I don't think he'd be in it at all. He had fun at camp though, and came home and volunteered. He missed last night's meeting as he didn't feel well. But he'll be coming along soon.

Anyway, we'd like suggestions from the peanut gallery.

Interpatrol games that reward teamwork at every meeting foster patrol spirit. IT made a big difference both in patrol spirit and the overall perception of fun at the meetings.

I especially like the idea of awarding a feather or similar token to the winning patrol each week for them to put on their patrol flag. I saw that on a training video. We haven't implemented that in our troop but I can see some great looking flags shaping up over time.

What a wonderful story! Sounds like you have a troop full of great Scouts!

I also agree with the thrust. I homeschool my son, highschool age, mostly because he is an extreme example of a boy whose time is wasted behind a desk. The other big issue is that he requires more socialization practice than is available in schools. Yes, you read that right. I took him OUT of school to work on his social skills. He had been in a Spec Ed class whose purpose was ostensibly to TEACH him social skills and study skills, and all it accomplished was to train him to produce worksheets for candy treats. If my terrier could hold a pencil, I could train him the same way with doggie biscuits (and his handwriting would probably be better...)

There was nothing in high school available to teach him how to be empathetic toward others, to read other's body language, to help him understand how to express his opinions without being considered smart-alecky or know-it-all, or to learn how to influence others without bribery or coercion. He needs to know those things, far more than any single subject he could learn. He reads well and so can find out anything he wants to know from the library or internet or both. But he can't use any of that knowledge in a productive way if he can't work with people.

Our program is already an anti-drug program. Why? Because it involves a ton of positive reinforcement and recognition, caring adults who enjoy spending time with their own kids and other teens, and a lot of activities that are plenty of fun while stone-cold sober. Who needs drugs when you've got all that?

Sctmom, been there and done that. I agree that you can't just walk in and tell the PLC how to run their meetings. But I think the suggestion to bring a game to each meeting is VERY good. The other suggestion I have is to make sure that the PLC HAS a copy of Woods Wisdom (which is now called something else), and to have a quiet chat with the ASM over the new scout patrols about your son's feelings about meetings.

If you can see that there's improvement on the way - and the problem is getting your son to hang around long enough to see it - I'm not above subtle bribery. Leaving home early enough for a fast-food or restaurant supper with mom before the meeting might be enough to turn the trick if you can afford it and it's not a normal activity for you.

If there's no improvement on the way, you're going to have a problem regardless.

IMO, Juliette Gordon Lowe had it right in talking about Girl Scouting: "A meeting should have fun and accomplishment. If it cannot have both, it should be FUN. That way the girls will come back for the accomplishment."

If the game is toward the end of the meeting, that is what the kids will remember most. It also can act to help them focus on the "dull" work like planning - gotta get this done, boys, so we can get on to the game!

If the problem is getting the planning done in a timely fashion, I recommend that you present the questions and ask for the responses in written form - fill in the blank works well. Otherwise they talk all night and nothing gets decided.

I second what Eisely said. I'm not clear at all on what offense you could have possibly done to be kicked out of your troop (threaten to put ground glass in the SM's oatmeal?) but now would be a very good time to do some prioritizing and problem solving to get your son in a troop where he can meet his goals.

The SM of the troop we are now in started their own troop, due to the fact that they could not find a troop that would accomodate their sons' desire for a traditional Scouting program WITHOUT high adventure. Their kids were not physically able (bad asthma) nor was the family financially able to fund the high adventure trips their former troop favored (with three boys in Scouting and one income in the family, trips costing $300 - 400 in family contribution per boy - after fundraising efforts - were out of the question.) In their old troop, the troop fundraising moneys were all dedicated to these high adventure programs; these boys were asked to spend their Saturdays fundraising for programs that they could not attend. When they asked for alternate activities they were asked to leave the troop.

Now, I confess that I hope these boys will toughen up a little as I want to keep the Outing in Scouting for my own son. My husband and I have both volunteered as ASM's in this fledgling troop toward that end, and since my son also has a long history of bad asthma, I'm pretty good at making arrangements and emergency plans so that we can have normal fun anyway. But I'm still sort of shocked that a troop would summarily kick out an entire family for what amounts to a program dispute.

We do this also. IMO while it is possible that advancements have been delayed for this reason, my experience in reviewing books has led me to believe that it will be a rare ocurrence, since in the troops we've been involved in the boys usually have plenty of non-Eagle required badges by the time they gut it up to do some of those tough ones. My son is already on the Eagle page for non-required badges but still lacks one "required" one for Star. He seems to be typical.

But you're right, it is worth looking into.

Nothing wrong with the Girl Scout program per se, but they don't seem to stress or care much about the older girl programs (Cadette-Senior). In fact, in my area they don't even bother to attempt to recruit at that level - they figure if a girl hasn't done brownies and Juniors they won't enter it then. There's a giant drop in membership between Juniors and Cadettes (the equivalent step would be Webelos to Scouts).

IMO, the leadership skills that make a good Brownie leader are not the same ones for the Cad/Sr level, and since in my area the leaders usually move up with their daughters, this causes part of the problem. I've interviewed a number of Cad/Sr girls about the things that aggravate them or why they are thinking of dropping out, and hear over and over again that their leaders won't let them choose direction for the troop. This is not the Girl Scout way, I am a GS trainer and we are working toward fixing it.

Would any homeschool Scouters offer ideas for recruitment please?

My son is in a homeschool troop chartered by a fairly small homeschool support group. We've got almost all the scout-age kids in this support group and would like to have more. Unfortunately, the cub den sponsored by the same group didn't really get going, so we haven't a naturally feeder for the troop. School rallies aren't too easy to organize for homeschoolers! It isn't exactly that we don't welcome public school kids- we have one already - but we'd rather not get too tied into the school calendar as homeschoolers operate differently.

Any ideas?

Sorry, ScoutParent, my observation was not intended to include ScoutPerson's troop as one in which the older boys hassled the younger. It was intended to make the comparison that parents were not authorized or encouraged to observe troop activities - like ScoutPerson's troop. I certainly hope his troop doesn't have the problems my son's former troop does.

When my son came in and announced he NEVER EVER EVER wanted to go to Scouts again, we found out that the older boys hassled the younger ones, in several ways. "Harmless teasing" to some. Not to others.

When we talked to the adults in the troop, they said that since the boys were in charge of the patrols, they had not seen the behaviors in question and couldn't say if they had occurred.

We don't actually know what exactly happened. This was around the same time that my son began needed serious help for anxiety, with behavior that does look a lot like PTSD. He will not discuss some issues at all - including what happened in third grade to make him hate school, and what happened in Scouts later. We don't know if it was cause-and-effect, chicken or egg, or simple coincidence. If a kid like mine ended up in ScoutPerson's troop, how would HIS parents know if something occurred there or if that could be ruled out? We DO know that any organization that does not allow us to observe our own kid in action no longer sees our kid. Period.

We don't follow him around, in fact he probably has more personal freedom than most 14-yearolds - but always with the knowledge that Mom or Dad or one of his older siblings might drop in and check up at any time.

Thank you, Bob White, for saying it so clearly.

With two adults, if one is in the latrine or shower, visiting the next camp, or at a leader meeting, you now have - ONE adult. OK, perhaps, as long as all goes well. But as has been said before, Murphy is alive and well.

I've done day-trip stuff with scouts with only 2 adults, and indeed went to camp with only 2 adults (and only 2 scouts, not too tough there!) But the very first thing we did on arrival was to get with the camp staff and commissioners, let them know how short our bench was, and make an emergency plan to allow the boys to continue their fun in case something happened to one of us.

The one time I had a injury in a (girl) scout function, thank GOD I had TWO other adults with me and double thank GOD that one was a trained EMT. The first aid skills weren't the issue - we had base emergency services available. It was her attitude - a calm "OK, what do we need to do next?"

The incident was frightening - no, terrifying. We had 6 horses with inexperienced 10 to 12 year-old riders bolt on a trail ride. The stories varied, there was talk of a snake but the configuration of the area was also conducive for the horses to just decide to race. The wrangler (an older scout, not from our troop)leading the ride lost control of her horse and it got worse from there. Four girls fell, one of them was thrown into a wire fence which made a rather ugly cut on her knee. Girls were strewn along a quarter-mile of trail; I was at the stable as I was to go out on the next ride. I got my ride, all right, at the top speed my lousy riding skills would allow, trying to find out who was hurt without joining them myself!

The EMT followed the ambulance to the hospital with the one girl who required medical attention, and helped when her mom and dad arrived (they needed a little calming down). The other leader and I stayed with the rest of the troop. We put the horses in the corral, settled them down, and a couple of the thrown riders got on them again. We would not have been able to do that if we'd had the minimum in adult leadership - the day would have been totally over.

As it stood, one girl has decided horses are not for her; the most injured one is now willing to try again, and two have already ridden again. A reasonable count under the circumstances.

Now, my first campout as a leader (girl scout) I took 12 girls and a total of four adults. Two of them left Saturday morning, noting that it was pouring rain, cold, nasty, and plus they saw bugs and dead mice in the cabins. We were glad to see them go as they were upsetting the girls with their shrieking and crying. Once they were gone, we had a memorable and wonderful time. Oh, yes, the girls were third-graders.... first overnight (two nights).... no homesickness, no problems at all, at least not after the black widow spider was killed and we got the mice carcasses out. Except the other mom and I were ready to drop by the time we got them all home! And the poor girls got dragged around a lot, as we could NOT leave them at that age while we did important stuff like go to the john... so they played tag outside the latrines where we could hear them. Showers were impossible.

I ran into a SM like ScoutPerson who made it clear they didn't need or want parents around, either as leaders or volunteers. My son hated that troop, since it turned out that the bigger boys delighted in torturing the younger, and we left for greener pastures where the adults don't confuse reasonable and necessary observation with interference.

IMHO four is a good baseline number of adults for an overnighter, with any reasonable number of scouts. That way the adults can entertain each other and the scouts can get on with business.

As I said before, separate is good. But MY life would most certainly be easier if my kids were in the same troop. As it is, I have twice the monthly meetings to attend, twice the troop meetings, and it seems like four times the preparation work for my duties as TL (girls) and ASM and MB counselor (boys).

On the other hand, what would I do with all that extra time anyway?

If my daughter stays as interested in roughing it, she may consider going into a venture crew in a couple of years. We'll see how it goes.

I vote for the 60-day suspension, with strict conditions for re-entry, one of them being the offending parent take at least the Scoutmaster quickstart training and apologise to the involved adults and boys for her bad behavior. This will probably eliminate the problem entirely as I can't picture it happening, but if it does, then there may be some hope for the kid.

If I ever saw them again, I also would have a very high index of suspicion for child abuse in this family and would be alert to any evidence for same. If any is observed reporting is required.

Ed -

Although my vote is that this is NOT necessarily needed training for scouters, I do respectfully disagree with your assessment that this is easily determined. I offer as proof my sister's ex-husband, who successfully concealed a whopping drug problem not only from us (a close knit family of 5 intelligent adults with a full complement of spouses) but also from her, until his abuse caused him to steal 10K from his employer, at which time the jig, as they say, was up.

Later events revealed that his use pre-dated their marriage, and she did not have a clue despite having volunteer experience in drug counseling centers. He knew that she had a low opinion of drug use, he cared for her, and so he carefully hid his habit. Being a highly intelligent, well-educated, handsome, talented, and charming man, he was successful for quite a long while. Here's a news flash: Drug addicts are not all bums! (the marriage did not survive but the man did; by the grace of God, he turned to Christ a few years later and IMHO was a reasonably good father after that time, with some reservations. )

And my OTHER brother-in-law - who is still married to my other sister - managed to conceal a prescription drug habit to the point that my sister was surprised when he voluntarily committed himself to a rehab center (obviously successfully as they are still together). Again, this sister has a frighteningly high IQ, has completed all coursework for her doctorate, and is an ordained minister in the UCC so she ain't no dummy with no people skills. She is also a recovered alcoholic herself, sober for 20 years now, and as she put it to me, if it had been ALCOHOL she would have spotted it immediately but since it was prescribed medications she didn't have a clue.

And for the final support for why I don't think it's easily determined, my step-daughters are now figuring the statute of limitations has run out on their youthful indiscretions and so they are now 'fessing up - and while I was not at all surprised to hear that they used drugs and alcohol during their teens, I was stunned to hear how young they were when this started (eleven, in one case). They did not live with us at the time and we were not close then for a bunch of complicated reasons; I don't know if their mother knew or not.

Now, why don't I think we need to add training in spotting it? Well, because I've HAD that training and in my opinion training and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

Your idea of helping out the homeless shelter sounds great to me, it serves the greater community. If your parents agree, you might spend some time volunteering down there, like in the kitchen or something. That way you can get to know the folks that run it. Then you'd be in a good spot to see what their priority list would be - it might be the shabby appearance you've noticed or there might be something else that they need even worse that's hidden. Plus, you might meet some really interesting people (both staff and clients! You'll be amazed at the variety of people that end up homeless).

This could also serve scouting if you do a really good job and someone in the media notices. Generally I don't think we should draw attention to ourselves for good turns - my church teaches that you should keep the good you do private, between you and God - but positive publicity does help the local scouting program and so the greater good is served if it's noticed.

Good luck! I wish you were in my city so I could cheer you on and come to your Eagle COH when you get there!

I don't know what the real official policy is, except to say that I know the GSUSA has a very strong bent toward supporting the right of the parent to control the religious education of the child. Likewise, the education with regards to sensitive issues such as drug use, sex, and most other subjects that may involve controversy. I know that in the Promise, the girl may substitute the word or words of her choice (or her family's choice) for "God." I guess there is nothing to stop a secular humanist from promising to serve "humanity and my country." Now, I think there might be an acceptance problem if the Scout wished to serve HERSELF and likewise if she wished to serve Satan or any of his namesakes.... but I've never heard of such a thing happening. If the idea of uncompensated service is really anathema to the family I'm guessing we won't see the girl anyway.

I have a girl in my troop who is still trying to decide about God; her immediate family members are not believers but her grandparents are. She says the Promise as written with her parent's approval. She bows her head at prayer times (grace) out of respect for those around her, also with her parent's approval. I figure as a leader I can stand by for her in case she decides to join the body of Christ. But I don't feel it's my job as a scout leader to reel her in, other than by setting an example of a good and joyful Christian.

As far as the spiritual side, the ways in which it has come up in common scouting experience includes observing the beauty of nature with awe and reverence; giving thanks before meals; and in Scout's Own ceremonies, which are NOT religious ceremonies per se but are designed by the scouts themselves to express their feelings. So if a scout HAS religious feelings, she might express them; but if a scout does not she has no requirement to participate, or she may choose a different way to participate.

For the record, I was raised in an atheist family; the closest we came to church was the Unitarian church, rarely, and in my Southern Baptist hometown this was a lonely place to be. Needless to say, I wasn't a Girl Scout. Honor student, no drugs or drinking, tried to help out others, tried hard to be a real good kid, but not a Girl Scout. I think I would have been a good one and regret that I never had the chance.

For the record, I was baptized in the United Methodist Church at age 28. Nothing in my conversion experiences nor in my reading of the Bible has convinced me that withdrawing fellowship from atheists is in my charter, nor that I must make efforts to convert them other than by simply witnessing what I believe and as I said, by setting a good example.

Some troops are probably more atheist-friendly than others, for instance, I know of troops sponsored by local Catholic churches that open meetings with prayers common in that church and do religion- related stuff frequently. Since all the girls in the troop are Catholic, there's no problem with this for them, but an atheist joining in might be uncomfortable. Other troops with no single-denominational bent would probably have less of that type of problem and an atheist might feel more welcome.

If you teach the boys to wash their T-shirts and have sunshine, they really only need 2 at camp - one to wear and one on the line. It doesn't take that much to wash them, it can be a pleasant part of the morning camp routine or they can just wash them in the shower.

Ours are light blue and a lightweight 50:50 blend, and they wash up fine with a little shampoo. However, if it rains a lot, a third shirt is nice to have as it can be hard to get them dried even if the clothesline is under cover.

Yaworski is right about the big shirts when they are cotton. I feel more comfy in the lightweight blends when they're a bit roomy though, especially in the high humidity which prevails in my area. Might be selfconsciousness about my plus size factoring in also, I'm not sure.

Julia

Mamafox, I'm plus-sized too and those shorts are the most miserable items of clothing I own in my current side. Hot, sticky, and those flat cargo pockets are absurd. At camp in South Texas, I could only wash them on a day when the sun would be out all day because if it were overcast they wouldn't dry in 8 hours on the line and I'd be all soggy at dinner. The shirt was less of a problem, it washed up pretty well.

I have a wonderful pair of lightweight khaki shorts I bought at Walmart with pockets all over them, including a pocket on the lower side of the legs which is the perfect size for sunglasses and puts them in a safe location whether standing or sitting. If the scout shorts were like those only green I'd wear them daily.

The zipoff leg idea is a good one also. And when at camp I was jealous of my husband who had the kind of shorts that would dry in an hour.

Good point, LauraT7, that some ADHD kids could see the physical activities as punishment rather than release. Your idea of keeping them moving schlepping equipment and so on is a good one and one I've used a lot.

On the meds for sleep idea: I also am pretty uncomfortable with the "drugs to go, drugs to stop," mindset of some of the medical profession. However, I have found that my sons who also have some nasal allergies sometimes benefit in two ways from a low dose of a little generic form of Benadryl at night - it both opens up stuffy noses, and makes them a little drowsy so they drop off to sleep better. It's cheap, bought over the counter, and low-risk when used as directed. We don't use it all the time, just occasionally. If he's been having trouble sleeping for a while, and this happens to work on him, you might think he's really stoned, he'll sleep so much the first night. But that is most likely him just catching up a sleep deficit.

My sons really did not know their noses were stuffy, BTW, as they've "always been that way."

It may backfire, some kids get hyper on it, but mine don't. It's just a suggestion for those who are looking for a low-risk way to help iron out a sleep cycle problem without having to resort to strong sleeping pills. Having a bit of a sleep disorder myself, associated with chronic pain, I've gotten pretty good at this. Sleep deprivation does not make good Scouts - or Scouters!

BTW - since I started carrying an obscenely comfortable inflatable mattress I sleep better in camp than I do at home... it was hard to admit I was so old I needed such luxury but man, does it make a difference....