Rick_in_CA

Personally I think you are walking dangerous ground here. You don't want to get into the role of judging someones religion. You are correct that Pastafarianism originally was created as a parody religion (specifically aimed at keeping scientific creationism out of schools), but there are a few people out there that honestly identify as Pastafarians because it means something to them. How would you respond to a Raëlian (it's a UFO church, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%ABlism)? Some Raëlians are very sincere in their faith, even though it may look kind of ridiculous to many of us. Would you demand justifications or "proofs" of a scouts faith if they said they were Catholic or Jewish? If not, then you shouldn't do that for ANY scout. "Faith" means many things to many people. We need to be careful we don't fall into the trap of "your faith doesn't look anything like mine, so it isn't real". You want to talk about disrespect and insult? I remember speaking to a woman that became a Wiccan in college. She was very sincere about her faith and found something profound in it, but she mostly hides her religion because she constantly gets her faith belittled by people ("you only do it to piss off your parents", "you have been playing too much D&D", "do you put glitter on your wand?", "you guys just make this crap up right?", "you are just doing this to make fun of people with real faith", etc.). There are lots of people who think that Wicca is a made up religion and isn't "real". The same can be said of any religion, I don't believe we should be judging.

Tahawk is right about the Buddhists. The BSA says they are fine even though many are atheists. As for what the BSA does say, see the Guide to Advancement section 5.0.5.0: So, what constitutes a belief in God is left up to the scout and his family. If he defines it as: "I love my pets", then that is OK. As long as he can say he does his Duty to God (as he defines it - "he plays fetch with his dog") and can respect the beliefs of others, everything is good. As for the phrase: "the BSA requires a belief in a higher power", I am curious, where that is written?

Happy Holidays to everyone no matter your faith tradition! Thanks for sharing the video!

I agree, it's important to have compassion for others, especially when they are acting poorly (it's easy to have compassion for the angels among us, but the ones that really need it are often far from that). But there is compassion, and there is being a doormat. All we have on this incident is Basementdweller's description of the events. We don't know this scout's or his families story, and if we did, it would probably color our impressions (one way or the other). I have no idea what the family in Basementdweller's case is like. What I do see is that Basementdweller is investing his time, money and emotional capital (i.e. heart) in scouting, and trying to do the best he can. It's a difficult situation to be in. We all want to do what is best for the scout, but there is a point where bad behavior by the parents does have to effect the scout to prevent that behavior from damaging the whole unit. It might be completely out of the scouts hands, but we can only do so much. I don't know if the parent in question simply has too much chaos in her life, or is trying to manipulate a free ride for her son. But Basementdweller is in a much better position to figure that out then any of us. Should Basementdweller have allowed the scout to freeload in order to allow him to save face? If he did, would that have been fair to the scouts that payed their own way? Basementdweller's unit comes from a pretty low income community. For some of his scouts, getting the funds to pay for the event might have taken a substantial effort.

SeattlePioneer, I really like your idea for trophies! I going to suggest it to our pack pinewood derby chair!

In our pack we give out small trophies or medals to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place racers (we put the tigers in their own race pool), plus ribbons for a set of design competitions (the kids vote for the winner of each category such as: coolest paint, fastest looking, looks least like a car, etc. We usually have five categories). However, we try not to make too much of a deal about who wins. The point has always been for the cubs to build their cars (with adult help) and to then race them. I agree with Eagledad that competition is not inherently a bad thing, but we need to manage things so the competition is healthy. And if we want our cubs to not value winning over having a good time or playing fair, we need to believe it ourselves when we tell them that. If we say "winning doesn't matter" then spend the next thirty minutes talking about past winners and the best way to build a winning car, the cubs won't believe us. We also need to teach the cubs that not winning (i.e. loosing) is OK. Some of these kids have a hard time learning this. Our society often casts competition into a morality play, where winning is the reward for virtue (and hence loosing is the result of lack of virtue). It's natural, we want the "good guys" to win, and the "bad guys" to loose. We see it in countless movies (including Down and Derby) and books. We see it in coverage of sports where there is lots of talk about "heart" and "drive", and you hear phrases like "the other team wanted it more" - all are placing moral judgements on the winners and loosers. They make loosing a moral failure.

I agree that clear rules for the cars are a must. Our pack uses the same rules that the district does so that the cars will also pass district inspection. Our rules are pretty simple: 1) The block, wheels and axles must be official BSA parts. 2) You can't go over five ounces. 3) You can't shave down the wheels (one of the easiest ways to speed up the car is too reduce the mass of the wheels) 4) The car must fit in the sizing box (so it fits on the track - love that 18 wheeler you made, but you can't race it) 5) You must use the existing axle slots. 6) You have to use all four wheels and they must all be in rolling when the car runs. 7) No part of the car can extend forward of the starting post. Our pack rarely has an issue with an over-competitive parent, and the kids all have a blast. We try to keep things ballanced. At the district level, it's more of a challenge. We have an inspection and registration day a couple of days before the derby. There we inspect and weigh the cars, only passing cars are allowed in. We have a workshop set up to help people fix any issues with the cars right there. We then impound the cars until the derby. We also do a late registration for the few cars that needed to go home to fix things on the day of the derby. We have been doing this way for years and don't have too many problems. At the derby, the kids pickup their cars on the way to the track and return them after that heat is run. The reduces the temptation for the adults in the picture to switch the wheels or inject additional weight into the car - as they don't touch the car until after the race is over (occasionally they still try though).

I agree with SeattlePioneer here. Having been my pack's Pinewood Derby Chair, and having helped run our district derby for the past several years, I agree that most of the problems come from the adults. And I think part of the problem is that the cubs aren't really allowed to make the cars anymore. Back when I was a cub scout, we actually made our own cars. I remember using the jig-saw and power sander to shape the car. Then I used a chisel to carve out the voids for the weights. I then spray painted it and added decals and some other bits for looks. The weights and paint I bought myself at the hardware store (went there on my bicycle), and the decals at the local hobby shop (again went there on my bicycle). My Dad was looking over my shoulder when I was using the tools and spray paint, and offering advice, but it was my project, I did it myself. Of course today Cub scouts are barely allowed to even touch tools, let alone use them. Nor can they use spray paint (or little red wagons - must be 14*). And letting your 9 year old leave the house without adult escort can get you arrested. So the new model is the reverse of the old one - the parent makes the car with the cub scout looking on and occasionally helping. Since the adults are actually building the cars, we get more adult egos involved. And we wonder we have problems? *See: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf

Cambridgeskip, I like it! Wait, hugs? From children that are not mine? From young girls? As a single man!? My life will be destroyed! I'll probably go to jail!!! Unfortunatly, I wish I was completely joking. Teachers here are advised to never hug a student, let alone touch them to avoid accusations of inappropriate contact. I remember my first grade teacher gave great hugs (that was before society was constantly looking through the "all strangers are potential pedophiles" lens). Are things different in the UK? To keep this on topic, Basement, I think your parents are way out of line asking you to pay. I wonder, did the parent that made the suggestion really expect you to pay, or was it really a bit of snark of the form: "Well if he thinks it's such a good idea, why doesn't he pay for it" that got out of hand?

Where does it say that? People commonly bring up this "belief in a higher power" stuff, but show me the BSA publication that it came from? All I can find is the BSA requires a "belief in God" but then leaves it to the scout or scouter to define what that means for them. So, did I just not read the right document?

There is no single definition of "Humanism". It means different things to different people, and it's usual meaning has changed over time. The term "humanism" is really a broad term that referrers to a whole family of philosophies and ideas, rather than a specific one. So no, there is no ultimate authority for defining humanism, nor a fixed set of characteristics. Wikipedia actually has a pretty good article on humanism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism As for the "is humanism a religion" question, there are humanist churches out there, such as the "Fellowship of Humanity". Plus there is the whole Religious humanism movement. Though I would expect most people that call themselves humanist would not agree that it is a religion.

CWA stands for Concerned Women for America

Only if it's enclosed:

So one somewhat out of context clip is proof? I guess it depends on your definitions of "partnership", "ties", "links" and "relationship" are. If you define it as "doesn't deny the existence of", then yes they do. The girl scouts (individual units, councils and national) source materials (pamphlets, videos, books, pencils, glue, etc.) from other groups and organizations to deliver aspects of the girls scout program, one of which can be Planned Parenthood. If that is having a partnership or tie than yes they do. So if I rent a move produced by MGM to show my cub pack, does that mean the BSA has a partnership with MGM? With the movie rental agency? If my cub pack buys decorations for our pinewood derby from Diddams, does that mean the BSA has a partnership or tie to Diddams? If I use a book from the local bird watching club to teach my cub scouts a lesson about the local birds, does that mean the BSA has a relationship with the local bird watching club? What if I give a copy of the book to each cub, is there a relationship then? And if that bird watching club also sponsors a bowling team, does that mean the BSA has a relationship to or supports bowling? Girl scouts groups (again individual units, councils and national) participate in activities (such as breast cancer walkathons, etc.) in conjunction with other groups, one of which has been Planned Parenthood. If that is a relationship or tie, then yes they do. If my cub pack marches in the local 4th of July parade, and so does the Twinkle Toes Dance Academy, does that mean the BSA has a relationship or tie to that dance academy? Or that the BSA promotes dancing? If I take my cub den to a geology show put on by the local gem and mineral society (a totally cool show by the way), does that mean the BSA has a partnership with the local gem and mineral society? If my cub pack does a popcorn show and sale in front of the local Safeway (with the their permission of course), does that mean the BSA has a partnership with Safeway? So maybe the GSUSA does have a relationship or partnership to Planned Parenthood, if you use those definitions. And the BSA has a relationship or partnership with every almost every hardware store, supermarket, camping store, gas station, shoe store and hobby shop in the country (Since boy scout troops purchase things from my local sporting goods store, do you think if they put up a sign that says "We are proud of our long relationship with the Boy Scouts of America" the BSA would complain?). But when the right-wing paranoia machine talks about the "links between the GSUSA and Planned Parenthood", what they are really talking about is nonsense like: "GSUSA uses profits from cookie sales and other activities to directly fund Planned Parenthood", "the GSUSA is the tactical arm of Planned Parenthood", "Planned Parenthood is in an alliance with the girl scouts to promote lesbianism, promiscuity and abortions", "the GSUSA is in secret talks with Planned Parenthood to distribute free condoms and sex manuals to all girl scouts", "the GSUSA and Planned Parenthood are working together to promote promiscuity thereby creating clients for PP's abortion and STD services", etc. Basically paranoia and fantasy. NOTE: The quotes in the last paragraph are paraphrases of things I have read, not verbatim quotes. I apologize if that isn't clear in the above. I didn't want to take the time to track down all the crazy stuff or take up the space to post large blocks of quotes.

GSUSA ties to Planned Parenthood? That's just right-wing paranoia. The GSUSA have no ties to Planned Parenthood. Of course that hasn't stopped various right-wing wackos from starting boycotts over it and right-wing bloviators like http://www.breitbart.com complaining about it.

Where does it say that? I can't find any requirement for a belief in a supreme being (or even a "belief in a higher power"). The BSA requires a "belief in God" but leaves the definition of that up to the individual. If the individual defines a "belief in God" as "I like ice cream", they are fine. As long as the person doesn't self identify as an atheist or agnostic the BSA is fine with them (it's the label, not the underlying belief structure that the BSA has a problem with). From the Guide to Advancement:

Yes, drowning is the second most common source of accidental death in the US for children of scouting age (after traffic accidents). So I understand why the BSA rules are so strict even though I agree that they are overly cumbersome. It's that balance between safety and allowing kids the chance to take risks and have adventures. I think the societal pendulum has swung way to far toward safety and fear (you let your nine year old climb a tree? Call social services!), but the safety of kids swimming is something we need to take seriously.

Wow. OK, let me see if I understand what you are saying here. When you say "Christianity says that homosexuality is not acceptable" (or words to that effect), it appears you are flatly saying that all real Christians must believe that (that it's a Fundamental Christian Principle*), and that Christian denomination over there that doesn't agree are not real Christians? Or to put it another way, you are saying that anti-homosexuality is fundamental to Christianity and any Christian domination that doesn't agree is betraying a fundamental tenant of what it means to be Christian? * Fundamental Christian Principle - for example believing that Christ is the son of God and he died for our sins - pretty fundamental to the meaning of "Christian". People like Christian Deists are not really Christians in the normal sense (Deism rejects any sort of miraculous interventions like the existence of a divine Jesus - therefor Jesus was just a mortal man like the rest of us).