Beavah

First off, Beavah, I had to read your post three times before I understood what you were trying to get across. Yah gotta go watch "Fargo", eh? Us folks from da northern Midwest really talk like dat! However, when a person seeking truth stops at the first thing that works for the moment and declares "This is truth", that person is more likely to have found a belief or opinion Yah, sure. But don't you think it's a pretty prejudiced view to ascribe to someone else that they "stopped at the first thing that worked for the moment" then shut off their brain? I haven't really met an

Beavah, you start a thread where you address Lisabob's various ideas but you don't have the patience to read through other posters' responses?? Hmmmmm. . . so much for a dialogue of ideas. Give my comments about "skimming" another look. Yah, JD, der you go again. Reading the posts of other scouting volunteers in the most negative light possible, and responding with a criticism of the person instead of the idea. What I meant was what I said. Why don't you split up your long post into separate threads, which would enable more people to respond to individual issues that they we

you can create special positions (although they are NOT valid for Eagle). Sure they are. They are Scoutmaster-approved leadership projects. Or if some Chief of Officiousness asks, da communications guy is "Scribe #2" and da Recruitment guy is "Junior Assistant Scoutmaster for Recruitment". The only thing to be cautious of is to make sure that any new positions you create are "real." They should demand the same level of responsibility and lead to the same amount of personal growth as being QM, PL or ASPL. (Which is why people like CNY have trouble with positions like "Bugler", but

Yah, sure DanKroh. The quest for findin' somethin' dat works, or for somethin' closer to "objective truth" is sure as shootin' going to lead to plenty of doozies of mistakes, and some over-reachin'. That doesn't mean that the quest ain't worth pursuing.

Yah, JD, dat's a bit much, eh? Perhaps a separate thread for each topic? One thing I think that's apparent in your postings that I didn't catch before is the insistence on presenting/categorizing things as personal opinion/belief, absent any group label. Of course whatever any of us writes or says is our own personal understanding. That's so obvious it doesn't merit comment. But I think one big difference between the Blue-L's and the Red-C's is that the Red-C's are more comfortable with the quest for objective, impersonal truth, that goes beyond what "I believe" to "What really wo

By not following this particular rule, the Scoutmaster puts a boy's Eagle Rank at risk. Yeh do understand that the only thing that goes to National is the Eagle Rank Application form, right? Once three members of the committee certify the advancement, it's a done deal. So this no more puts a boy's Eagle at risk than the many units and camps out there that "subtract from the requirements." And unlike those, having da UC on a BOR really doesn't compromise the aims. Call me a purist if you will, but I believe we have an obligation to our youth to follow National BSA policy whenever we

Thanks, vmpost, for agreeing with the rest of my statement! As for the other, it seems to me that a council not honoring a boys BOR would be an odd thing to do to a boy. There are large troops out there with small committees in some chartered organizations. Ive known a couple where the committee was the youth subcommittee of the church, only 3-4 members. If they were really forced to live by this rule they would never be able to serve the kids well. And Im not ready to say that a BOR that includes the unit commissioner has somehow so undermined our aims of character, fitness

The biggest thing you can do is talk to the parents several months before. Tell them: 1) Talk up all the fun he'll have at summer camp, and how cool it's going to be. Have dad share his fun summer camp stories. 2) Help them plan things out & pack (DON'T plan and pack for them). Include a small special item or game that they can share... as simple as a deck of cards... something to fall back on for hookin' up with other kids. 3) Practice a few "life skills" like hanging up a towel to dry or bagging clothes that have become "ripe." 4) NEVER say "We're going to miss you

Wow. Yeh ask for input, then you roast da poor fellow for givin' you input. Seems like some folks need some better trainin'. Let's say I'm a unit scouter. My CO shows me the charter agreement that says "The Council agrees to provide year-round training, service, and program resources." When the council doesn't provide me with useful training, it somehow becomes my job to spend my volunteer time fixin' it, instead of spending that volunteer time with da kids in my CO's unit? Dat's some "trustworthy" charter agreement, there. What a riot. Like telling the customer if he doesn't

BSA standards and guidance are based on the collective experiences of all those who have gone before us. We should think long and hard before we choose to deviate from them. Nah, as anyone who does this work can tell you, da BSA standards are based primarily on the opinions and experiences selected by the people who were on that particular revision and writing committee. And ya gotta remember, there's little value in "average" anything. To average "the collective experiences" of all the many people in scouting is much like averaging the shoe size of every human and making only one p

Hiya Sunset, Nice job wit dat pack there! Way to go! The 5-members-to-charter is a BSA national guideline. Your Scout Executive can waive this requirement if there is a good reason to, so that might be a way to go. Someone else will have to fill you in on Lone Scouts. And of course ya can always follow the fine BSA professional tradition and "register the graveyard." Pay for a couple of kids who really aren't members but who agree to have their names used for a year. Who knows, you might pull 'em in. In any event, it's a reasonable workaround if there's no other scoutin

Yah, yah, jd. Dat was courteous, eh? One of the things I think is really lacking in these discussions is the ability to laugh at oneself. Lighten up. Blue-L and Red-C were of course humorous kindergarten cariacatures. No need to go all Danish-embassy on me.

Ages back I believed what Eamonn does - that adult help tends to come in proportion to the boys. Yah always have just barely enough. I still think that's true to an extent. Parent drivers / part time helpers / warm bodies do come in proportion to the kids. But not necessarily high-quality "front line" volunteers of the SM/ASM sort. I've also learned that troops of different sizes need different structures and adult talents. Unless those change, you can add as many kids as you want each year, but you'll end up the same size at the end of the year because kids will drop out. I can't tell

Sorry to hear about your troop's leader selection methods, CNY. Dat's a problem. Listenin' to everybody, I think we're really talkin' about different cases: Case 1: Poor leaders. These "warm bodies" or sometimes "head cases" just aren't likely to be successful. They also aren't likely to use scouting's methods very well; and when they try they fail (ex. "virtual patrols"), or they can't balance (ex. latching on to one standard like uniforming, and using it to browbeat kids). Case 2: Strong natural leaders, B-P's "right sort." These use the BSA program as a starting point/s

Lisa'bob offers da followin, as an admitted, card-carrying Liberal. It's rational and coherent, so it merits the same response. Perhaps dat will show where we all may care about da same principles, but politely disagree about (or modify?) methods. So, on that note: Here are some things that I believe as a liberal. Personally I think these beliefs fit rather well with the ideals embodied in the Boy Scout Oath and Law. If you don't think so, by all means, let's talk about it. **I believe in standing up for freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, and of petition, both when in suppo

If training isn't required you will always have people who are too busy. Yah, and that either means that a) you have some folks who probably shouldn't be adult leaders, or b) you have some folks who probably shouldn't be trainers. Good, committed adults find all kinds of time in their busy lives, but only for training that they perceive is high-quality and worthwhile. As a district or council, you really can't affect (a). But you should take a really hard look at (b). Over da years, I'll have to say that I've found quite a bit of da BSA training I've done neither hi

On the troop side of things, from a northern state near Jim_C's, let me offer some "discouragement." If you live in northern climes (I've seen your Michigan weather!), admitting new 5th graders in December drops them right into the hardest bad/cold weather campouts of the year, with no preparation. Da first experiences with a troop often determine retention. It's also really hard to have boys "trickle in" to a troop over the course of 4 months and still provide them a coherent program. It's much easier for troops to do a great job for these kids if there's some consistency, that

I'm a bit confused, eh? Not unusual, my kids tell me. Jerry, your original post said: Should it matter how I, you, or anyone else gets across the message of the Core Values to the boys? The answer is yes....It goes back to following standards. All of us would agree with you in terms of the behavior of the group you mentioned, or the troop Lisa'bob talked about whackin' away at da trees. Those are failures to convey the core principles of scoutin' to boys via any method. They are failures even if the troop is usin' all of the 8 methods "by the book." In fact, if either unit

Yah, yah... I remember bikin' wit some scouts when da rain was realy hail that had partly melted on the way down. Big honkin' raindrops wit these little ice crystals chunks inside that you ran into at 15-20mph + wind. Of course youth and skill is no match for old age and treachery. If ya timed the rotation out of lead position while watching the squall lines, you could make sure that a scout was in the lead position for each major assault of these "liquid needles". The chant of "Ow..Ow..Ow..Ow!" from da leader set the pace for everyone else....

Der was this troop I knew in my old district in a different council, back when my best friend had a pet triceratops. This troop went to a different agency every month and did a service project as a troop. During part of the project, they'd have someone from the agency talk about the good things that agency was doin'. They would never sign off for service hours for such "troop" service. If you wanted service hours, you made an appointment with a buddy at one of the agencies you thought was cool, and did your service separately. Service meant "reachin' out yourself." What the troop pro

Yah, Jerry, dat's exactly what I mean. There's a troop you admittedly know nothing about, but you're happy to critique them anyway. I know some troops that run fabulous programs that do absolutely no recruiting at all, because they like "the small troop feel." I know packs where the cubmaster does things, and where he delegates; where Blue and Gold is a huge gala, and where Blue and Gold is a simple event. Generally, I've found in most volunteer organizations that it's far better to tailor the job to the talents & interests of the person than it is to shoehorn a person into a pre-e

"A Scout is Thrifty." Maybe it's time we started setting the example. $239.00 is not value for money. Yah, right on!

There's no real expectation of privacy, but there should be an expectation of courtesy and kindness. Bring the boy in as an individual and: 1) Tell him he's deferred. ("Not yet" is a better thing than "denied"). 2) Tell him what he needs to do in order to come back and be successful at his next board. 3) Give him a good, reasonable suggested timeline to do #2, and a lot of encouragement to do that. 4) If #2 isn't possible (ex. he turns 18 tomorrow), let him know his appeal options. The rules and common sense say that the board has to send the boy a letter with the ab

An old friend and fellow Beavah once told me "when in doubt, vote for gridlock." Split control at least will stop anyone from railroading an agenda through without debate. I wonder if I can vote McCain-Lieberman in the next election?

Yah, OK. Now, I expect most of us evaluate Scout Spirit by what we see inside of scouts, since we can't evaluate it anywhere else. So, if we're makin' a bigger deal about Scout Spirit outside of scouts, how do you evaluate it? For Eagle, we ask for recommendation letters, but what do you do for the other ranks?