Beavah

It is the counselor alone who decides whether or not to sign the card as complete. Neither the SM nor the committee has any veto power. Not entirely true, eh? Around here, in order to submit a MB, the unit advancement chair has to fill out an advancement report and certify that "the following record of advancement is correct and that it meets the standards and requirements of the BSA." If it's clear that the MBC didn't meet the standards, the AC doesn't sign and submit the report. Committee veto. Practically speaking, in this particular case, the way to go is to accept and awar

It's important to remember that these days some CO's have stricter youth protection rules than the BSA. That's true of Catholic units in our district, who require separate YPT training and fingerprint background checks. These units necessarily restrict MBC's to adults who have met their requirements. Da rest of us should take a hint - if we're honest, we recognize that the background checking, oversight, and training of MBC's is cursory at best. A CO might also want boys to use an internal MBC for philosophical reasons. I can see an LDS unit wanting Family Life to be taught by an LDS

Yah, Mike's example illustrates why BOR's should ask some POR and skills-based questions, eh? OGE is correct that in a properly run program, a signoff shouldn't happen until a boy has truly learned a skill well. But we all know that people get lazy, it's easy just to sign off rather than work harder with a boy, and some signoffs at some summer camps are completely bogus (if a troop allows them). In order to prevent even a good program from "going downhill" and becoming a subtract-from-requirements advancement mill, there has to be some verification and feedback. Some of dat shoul

I find it interesting that you want to attribute everything that is ethical and caring as being Christian based. That wasnt quite my intent. I was pointing out that modern Wicca, and the UUA for that matter, both grew up in an environment where Christian ethics were pervasive, and incorporated most of the Christian ethical framework into their own structure (albeit detached from its underlying principles). There are certainly non-Christian ethical frameworks. And there is always natural law for all humans, like caring for family and tribe. Going beyond care for family and tribe i

"I'm basing my numbers posted at bsa-discrimination.org; while it's possible they aren't accurate, I think they are." Yah, right. Never, ever take statistics or research presented by an advocacy group at face value. Even when they aren't deliberately misrepresenting, the inherent bias leads to bad skew because of selectivity in what is chosen for inclusion/reporting. Dat's true of any advocacy group - Red, Blue, or Purple. It is also true, but to a lesser extent, of any "research" performed by an "independent" agency which is funded by an advocacy group.

I suspect the SM never approved the counselor in the first place, eh? That's a bit of a sticky wicket. In that case, the boys or the counselor were making an "end run" and it really is the SM's discretion whether to accept it after the fact. In such a case, someone needs to remind everyone involved of the appropriate procedure - the SM selects the counselor, and approves the boy working on the badge prior to the start of work. (BS Requirements p.22). Yah, another way to go might be to have the unit Advancement Chair set up a mini-BOR with several of the kids who "earned" the MB. Go

How do I vote against the current Republicans without voting for the current Democrats? There needs to be a real third option. The "honorable and responsible" party.

Interestin' le V, and SWS, thanks. If it's really a rare occurance, it's easy for troops not to have developed any experience with it. Those of us who've spent a lot of time in the hills in other places might anticipate somethin' that the locals don't. And whiteout navigation is always somethin' to avoid.

He "captured" a committee member that was about to leave and called another at home and set up the BOR on the spot. Ten minutes later they were starting the BOR. So the time requirement explanation for the quarterly BOR is not a valid excuse. Yah, for your troop, eh? It's important to remember that not everyone is da same as you or me, so makin' judgments about what is and isn't valid for someone else is a dicey business. Sounds like your committee has a lot of parents on it, so grabbing random committee members at a meeting is fairly easy. But there are units out there that have

Yah, I'd go with just shirts and have da boys wear their camy pants to start. That's enough for this method to be goin' on with. Spend the rest of your time and money on the other 7 methods.

but at this point, this is becoming an argument of semantics, not substance. The substance of the argument was that voters naturally vote their beliefs, religious or otherwise, and that laws resulting from the beliefs and opinions of the majority of voters are a natural consequence of democratic freedom. The alternative is appointing an elite monarch, nobility, appointed judiciary, whatever to make laws for everybody. Been there, done that, much worse in the long run. Actually, there is a movement being started to decriminalize polygamy, and it is being spearheaded by... a woman.

Snowed-in Scout hikers rescued By Katie McDevitt, Tribune March 13, 2006 http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=61042 What started as a weekend hike for a Mesa Boy Scout troop ended Sunday in a mountain rescue. Nine boys, ages 11 to 13, huddled together to keep warm for more than 24 hours, after 3 feet of snow forced them to stop their 6-mile hike through the Superstition Mountains, said David Perkins, leader of Troop 716. Despite freezing temperatures, no one was injured. The troop started hiking Friday evening near Globe. The troop hiked into the night and got wet as

Well, except that the Quaker exemption to the draft was based on belief, not practice. Oh, I dont know. The few Quakers I know would say dat nonviolence is a practice of the community of Friends. The beliefs that underlie it are much more complex. On what basis does society regulate marriage, if not the morality of the majority? There is no benefit to society to prohibit polygamy, other than to satisfy the morals of the majority. I would use the norms of the community rather than the morality of the majority, but whatever, eh? All communities establish standards of behavior,

Rastifarians have an exemption to marijuana laws based on their religious practices. Native Americans have exemptions to controlled substances laws to accomodate their religious practices. Quakers were exempt from the draft based on "conscientious objector" status.So even though we have laws, exemptions are made because of religious beliefs. Yah, those exemptions are carefully tailored to protect religious practice, not religious beliefs, eh? There's a difference. And even then, there are limits (ex. polygamy). In my religion, we only have one commandment; "Do no harm", which mak

While I will agree that America is now and always has been a majority Christian nation, I reject the thought that our laws are driven by exclusive Christian values. Ah, Gern. I don't think I said "exclusive." As others have pointed out, the ideas that have gone into our laws have also come from English common law, and native tribes, and freemasons, and immigrants who brought notions from their native lands, and on and on. My point was only that if you support democracy in a majority Christian nation, you will get laws that reflect that Christian sensibility. I do believe that cod

Yah, returning to the original topic. There is no denying that America is currently, and always has been, a Christian majority nation. As a democracy, that means that the enacted laws necessarily reflect a Christian belief system. Without imposing requirements of belief itself, they enshrine a vision of community that reflects the majoritarian belief... including the Protestant Christian notion of individual conscience and dissent from ecclesial authority. That Christian notion got us our notion of democracy in the first place, and a rejection of monarchy in favor of God-given inaliena

Yah, it's also worth remembering that da unit commissioner has no authority within the structure of the unit. So the appropriate response of a CM or den leader to a UC who has become "annoying" is to tell him/her to go away. Most of us who are or have been commissioners know better than this. I'd follow the advice to talk to the district commissioner and have someone else assigned (and in the process, the DC should get the hint that this person needs to be re-trained).

Oak Tree, that would be a front and as such, it wouldn't solve the problem Yah, it could. Transfer the Sea Scouts assets (boats) to "Educational Sailing, LLC" and get it NFP status. Apply for free berths. Educational Sailing provides free use of boats for Sea Scouts, in exchange for maintenance work on the boats. Educational Sailing may also provide use of the boats for schools, community, and other educational endeavors, perhaps using Sea Scouts as instructors or mates. Easy and simple. BSA insurance would still apply for every sea scout activity; but they may need a separate liabi

No specific policy, other than that illegal drugs (and alcohol & tobacco) are not allowed at any activity involving participation of youth members. It's up to the Chartered Org. & committee how to deal with a boy who is a known drug dealer and abuser. I think a wise program looks very carefully at whether it has full disclosure & support from the parents, the kind of specially trained & experienced adults, and the right mix of "good" and supportive kids to be able to take on a youth like this as a "special case." In a few cases, the answer might be "yes, we can provide t

Been a den leader, ASM, SM, UC, DC, CR, Explorer Post advisor, Venturing advisor & associate advisor, district training chair, district program chair, council exec board. Favorite: ASM. All of da fun of working with kids, none of da bureaucratic responsibility. Undoubtedly the best position in U.S. scouting. Close 2nd: Venturing advisor. Very different; very fresh. Really youth-run. Least favorite: Council Exec. Board. So badly removed from kids and service and the Scouting ethic as to make me question my involvement with the whole movement.

Do you know any of us personally, or what our level of involvement in the program might be? Nah, I know you only by your statements on this forum. But I do know from those that your involvement in the program that we are discussing (this troop that runs quarterly BOR's) is nil. Ya don't know their SM, ya don't know their committee, ya don't know their Chartered Org. or parents or kids or community. They might be the most active, highest retention program in their state for all you know. Yet, despite that, forum members choose to "wind up" a disgruntled parent and send him back to

Yah, yah. Once again a bunch of armchair kibitzers demonstrate their scout spirit by criticizing or berating fellow volunteers who they don't know, in a program they have no contact with, because they happen to hear one complaint. May you be forced to carry a ten-pound weight around your neck for every time a parent or a scout has a complaint about you. Some CO's have committees of professional people from their church or CO. For them, a regularly scheduled quarterly review might be the best use of their volunteers' time. This is no different from, say, martial arts schools that typi

One of da ironies of boy-led is dat the boys are always going to be interested in introducing us old dogs to new things. There have been whole new sports invented since I was their age: competitive climbing, snowboarding, rollerblading, paintball, laser tag, ropes courses, sod surfing, wakeboarding, windsurfing. There have been whole new ways of communicating developed, too: web, and email, and television (yah, yah, I really am an old rural guy), and cell phones, and fax. Some of the subjects they study in school didn't exist when I studied: genetics, statistics, computers, graphing calcul

To answer your question, it all depends on whether you are looking at the situation from a volunteer or professional scouter viewpoint How 'bout da "What's in the best interest of the kids?" viewpoint. Strong, healthy units. New units only when strong, healthy units get so big that they can become two strong, healthy units.

I think our SM has had so many conflicts with this family that he is pretty weary. They push the envelope on EVERYTHING. As I stated, the boy doesn't participate (doesn't camp or even come to meetings) but the parents fight like mad if anyone questions his behavior or actions. Problem is, the parents have no standards, so it's pretty hard to communicate what the boy needs to do. And for the record, they have been told, many, many times. Sometimes it's OK to fire a customer, eh? Yah got people consumin' far more than their fair share of volunteer time and energy, and who in the process ar