Beavah

SR540, you have to read that charter agreement, eh? And the other BSA materials. And the BSA's legal filings. The Chartered Org. agrees to run a youth program "according to its own policies and guidelines" (as well as those of the BSA). The "troop is owned by a chartered organization." The BSA "respect the aims and objectives of the organization and offer the resources of Scouting to help in meeting those objectives." The BSA "provides the program [materials] and support services, and the chartered organization provides the adult leadership and uses the program to accomplish its goal

Yah, SR540 and fellow Beavah, I wasn't meanin' to pick on you, eh? It's just your comments and the ones in the Venture Patrol thread about how Venture Patrol kids tended to form into an "elitist clique" and stop helpin' their juniors kind of intersected in my addled brain. But the discussion is interestin', isn't it? We're talkin' about how "Adult Relationships" applies to the troop leadership in terms of leadership development/trainin'. But when does it apply to the 1st year boy? The 2nd class boy? Does he not get our friendship and attention except at SM conferences? How do we

Anarchist has it backwards. It's the CO's sandbox. Their units, their program, their rules. Da BSA is askin' to play in their house. That's why LDS, RC's, UM's, etc. seem to wield so much influence. They can kick the BSA out. As a unit voluteer, you work for and on behalf of your CO. Your first obligation is to follow their lead and their rules. I expect most CO's are respectful of personal conscience, and at least allow, if not encourage, dialogue and discussion of ethical issues, including periods of doubt and questioning by both youth and adults.

Didn't miss it, Ed. My point was that being available (come get me if you need me) isn't the same as being "present" as in building ongoing relationships. It's the difference between the police (available by calling 911) and a friend. CA, I don't think my example is .1% at all, but if it is in your area, great. Yah, yeh talk about how having a neat-and-cool "adult patrol" is a great example, but I don't buy it. At best, it's a neutral example, because the kids don't see it in action ... the interactions, the shared work, etc. At worst, It's a bad example, because the kids see that th

We in da upper midwest hate the February crossovers, eh? Any troop dat's runnin' an age-appropriate program has their boys out doin' fun stuff campin' in the snow and rain and mud of winter and spring. But throwin' a 10-year-old 5th grader into that as their first campout? Nah. Pretty dumb, eh? Far better to wait until May at least. And in these days of hyper-parented youth, skippin' camp the first year might be best for some kids. If they've never been out of mom's or dad's sight for longer than a couple of hours, they need a bunch of indoor sleepovers and weekends and gettin'

IMO adults who function as a patrol should function AS A PATROL ... this means doing their own grub, thank you. It's important to remember that there's no such thing as an adult patrol anywhere in da BSA literature or program. Quite the opposite, eh? Adults are supposed to be present to and interact with kids... taking interest in them, encouraging them, teaching and learning from them, being an example. What better place to develop relationships then when breaking bread together? Yah, yah, troops with a lot of parent participants often have to be practical and form an adult

It's a complex world out there. If I buy a pair of low-cost sneakers, am I in fact participating in the oppression of children in Asia, the dissolution of the families of American workers, and the funding of a despotic regime? Some think so. If that's the way you feel about the BSA, then you should quit. I suspect most of us when we buy sneakers (or bananas, or software, or...) are just buying sneakers. We recognize that clothing our families at a reasonable price is a good thing, and that we are so far down the supply chain that there's nothing our buying or not buying sneakers is go

In the thread on powerful scoutmasters, SR540Beaver writes: Heck, the adults stay in the adult area. We have an SPL, ASPL's and PL's that are in charge over in the boy area. We come over if asked or if we see something that needs to be addressed. I hear this a lot here and other places. Youth Leadership and Patrol Method do need some "space" to work... when da boys are ready. But it seems to me that we have an obligation to balance that with other methods like Adult Relationships and Values. Boys can't benefit from adult relationships if adults are off in their own "clique" most o

Lisa'bob's version is, I think, the official BSA version. Patrols should be permanent and not age-based, with older boys leading younger boys. The Venture Patrol (aka Senior Patrol, aka PLC, aka OA members, aka Venturing Crew dual-registered boys) provides higher adventure age-appropriate challenges for the older boy leaders. This keeps them involved in having fun. Plus, it builds their skills and leadership abilities so that they can better serve the younger members in their patrols and troop. Together, it gives the younger boys something to look up to and work for. The Vent

A Scout is Mentally Awake. He/she recognizes the nature of organizations and systems, the limits of policies, and the ethical need to balance strict adherence to policy with compassion, mercy, and understanding. A Scout Helps other people at all times. So if there is a mechanism, like the scouting movement, which provides a wonderful way to help youth learn and grow, a mentally awake scout uses that mechanism for what it's worth. Despite its weaknesses and failures, from policy silliness to corrupt executives, you use the good and work around the bad. Same as all of us do in o

Current projections and statistics show that this coming generation may be the first in this nations history that doesn't have an automatic 'expectation' of exceeding their parents standard of living! Yah, that's because this coming generation's parents are the first one to saddle their children with an enormous national debt on top of an expectation that their children will support them with social security and medicare into their 90s. One kid today will support twice da number of old folks than we did, at 4 times the cost because of the increased medical costs and expectations for qual

The reason some of the boys talked with me is because they don't think they can talk with the Scoutmaster or the CC. I don't want to lead them in the wrong direction and I understand how the chain of command works in Boy Scouts. Apparently not, eh? The thing to do here is to en-Courage the boys to buck up and go talk to da Scoutmaster. Ya don't want to be teachin' boys to be goin' around behind people's backs talkin' and complainin' about them. You want them to learn that a man of character approaches friends politely and respectfully and firmly with concerns. It's the boys'

Kudu does school nights for Boy Scouts pretty successfully. I've seen it work for a few troops, but not dat often. Da key is in a jazzy, kid-centered presentation and good follow-up. One old district I was in did pretty good with fliers where da youth were doin' other things... soccer leagues, hockey leagues, skate parks & shops, chess clubs, etc. Active kids need somethin' for the off season. Parents don't feel right unless they're drivin' their kid somewhere, eh? It'd help if troops or districts had a decent web presence that actually appealed to kids and parents, and provi

I think ya have to trust people when they say their plans fell through at the last minute, eh? These people are clearly givin' their all for your son and a lot of other boys... he's SM, and she's runnin' the camporee? Ya only get a real license to complain when you're doin' as much work. Let it go unless it happens again... and then your job is just to give a heads up to the CC.

I'm not so hard on parents as the author of that column, eh? I think it's a different world now. We've learned that it pays to specialize... that payin' a guy who's good at painting to paint your bedroom is more economically efficient and leads to a higher quality of life for both you and the painter. Chores are being outsourced, so that people can spend their time more productively on things they enjoy and are good at. That's the real world that our kids are goin' to grow up in. And it's better than the one we grew up in. I did my share of lawn mowin' back in the day. The f

I hear that the American Association of Gay and Lesbian Horseradish Growers are upset with BSA policies as well. Now dat's gettin' serious, eh?! Those of us who love a healthy dose of horseradish on our brats* might just up and revolt if our supplies are threatened! * brats (BrAHts) n.: 1. Slang form for bratwurst or other grillable sausage served in the upper midwest as a staple foodstuff from May through the start of deer season. As distinct from 2. BRAAts, n. young men who don't learn good behavior and value through scouting programs.

Yah, if I were an ALA member, the thing I'd be concerned about is the anti-Mormon bigotry of this policy statement. One wonders if they're also going to stop ALA reading programs that work through the African-American church communities, because they also oppose homosexuality on ethical grounds. Wow, a bunch of librarians denyin' urban youth reading programs.

We should teach the boys to use da right tool for the job, eh? That's what is really meant by safety. The number of injuries from non-locking folding-blade knives is way higher than from sheath knives. And there are plenty of perfectly safe sheaths for carrying fixed bladed knives in. Thanks, anarchist, I hadn't even thought about river rescue knives. I carry one all the time, as should anyone who uses rescue ropes in water situations, at least in movin' water.

A volunteer is a volunteer, eh? It's somethin' you do with your free time and cash because you enjoy it. No paid professional educator should be the subject of discourtesy, parent belligerence, or the like, though sadly it's common enough. But should a volunteer put up with it? No way. A few of us like Eamonn or F might have a stubborn streak... or, well, a callin' to educate the rude ones. But that's our choice with our own volunteer time. A good person walkin' away and leavin' them with the job to do might be as good a lesson anyway. Go find yourself a fun pack to give your

OK, all this stuff about investments and stock options and educational currency trading futures is gettin' a bit over the top, eh? For an elementary school boy, your "best investment" is probably no investment at all... it's free play. Boys who get to run around, climb trees, ride their bikes around the neighborhood, hang with friends, etc. learn all kinds of life lessons. They get comfortable and confident being self-directed without being "bored." They deal with issues of leadership and followership and comfort and discomfort without access to mommy. As boys grow, that self-di

When is it a Boy Scout outing versus a group of friends getting together to go shoot each other? When the PLC plans it? Nope. Has to be approved by the committee as an official event and put on the calendar. Most PLC members are friends. They plan to do all kinds of things together that aren't scout activities, but that do involve only scouts. When it is announced at a meeting? Nope. Lots of troops announce all kinds of community events at meetings. "Here's an opportunity for service if anyone is interested." "Here's what's goin' on in the CO's other youth programs." "Bil

Is this normal troop behavior? No. Is it common enough to be recognizable? Yes. Not all adults have the character, fortitude, and sense of humor to deal with teenage boys as a group in terms of setting expectations and discipline. For a lot of parents, dealing with one teenager is enough of a challenge, eh? So things tend toward laxity, or the opposite extreme of adult rulesmongering. About half of your post talks about uniforming. Dat's a symptom and not a cause. I wouldn't start with worryin' about that. Teenagers and clothes is a battle that you sometimes have to lose

If our organization, BSA, believes that paintball or laser is not an inappropriate activity, then as Scouters, we CANNOT promote or in any way encourage that activity, or to sneakily suggest loopholes. To do so, at odds with the organization to which we belong and believe in, is an unethical choice. Whoa, Nelly! Egads. Somebody needs to wake this boy up with a good whack upside da head with a Committee Handbook. I'm a big BSA supporter and a longtime volunteer, but da BSA isn't a religion. If it happens to decide that huntin' is bad, that doesn't mean I'm goin' to Scouter Hell fo

Yah, OK. We've all given It's Me some good advice and/or a good slap in the face to try to make him think different, eh? But yeh know, as a commish I spent a lot of time talkin' to boys at summer camp from different troops. And I've got to say, there are a heck of a lot of boys who thought about quitting when they were webelos. Even a few who did quit, and only later came back after hearin' from their friends that Boy Scoutin' was so much better. Poor webelos programs dat lose us kids and burn out parents are as much the norm as the exception. In fact, da BSA keeps encouragin' ea

Ho Ho! Now dat's one I hadn't heard yet! I think the appropriate thing to tell them is that 1) In Scouting practice and tradition, the receiving troop provides the bridging ceremony and support. It wouldn't be right for the Troop B boys to take that away from the kids in the other troop (or the kids themselves, if they were effectively starting a new troop... but perhaps in that case you could send one older boy to participate in, but not set up or run their ceremony). 2) You'll pass the request to rent Troop B's bus along to the troop committee, and after they check out CO ru