Beavah

Yah, what scoutldr and John-in-KC said, eh? I'm a bit confused by your gettin' an EIN number. Is da pack separately incorporated? This isn't usually needed and can create some (tax authority) confusions and complications. Incorporating and filing for your own exempt status under 501©(3) is a pretty durn complex undertaking with a lot of reporting requirements; it'd be some serious overkill for all but a very, very active troop or Sea Scout Ship wit lots o' assets. Better to do everything through your CO as John-in-KC suggests.

The BSA on the other hand is an organization which you can leave whenever you choose. This is only a matter of degree, eh? A person can choose to leave a state or country, it's just expensive and a serious headache. Workin' for change or makin' change by refusing to sit at the back of the bus might be a better choice... not just for oneself, but for the community. A person can choose to leave a job, but it's difficult and a headache. Workin' for change or makin' change by starting a union drive, going on strike, bein' a whistleblower, etc. might be a better choice... not just

Calico and others have some great thoughts on this, eh? But most of what is being said pertains to council or district events (like summer camp). The Arkansas trip where the boy drowned is a unit activity, where rather than falling on the council, the primary liability and obligation falls on the Chartered Org. and volunteer. Da BSA pros may be there to help, but each unit should have its emergency plan in place that the CO signed off on. Bigger CO's will already have mechanisms for this that a troop needs to be aware of. The pastor, the school board, the VFW president, their legal

Dat's humorous, Tim. I like da notion of a simple consequence rather than a whole lot of adult lecturin'. Same with EagleinKY's hiking a scout back to his buddy. I think the easiest thing to do most of the time is simple, reliable consequences without a lot of talk. I've seen one troop where if they find a boy is out alone stops everything and everyone does a lost camper drill, just like it was "real." With the whole troop a bit miffed that you messed up an hour of fun, you learn quick, eh? And the rest of the guys learn da procedures for when it's "real."

1) I think this is your option. The guidelines for Boy Scout advancement in Sea Scouting state that "Position of responsibility requirements may be met by the Venturer serving as boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman, purser, or storekeeper in his ship." (ACP&P p. 39). Nothing particular about accepting signoffs when transferring units. Since the Skipper and the Ship Committee have to certify that the boy met all of the requirements, I'd treat this the same way we treat a merit badge that a boy starts with one counselor and then tries to finish with another. It's the counselor's di

Much like blacks sitting in the back of the bus and having different water fountains has changed. Excellent example, Lynda J. Those segregationist laws didn't change until courageous women and men chose to disobey them, often inspired by the values of the church to which they were "chartered." Hoping had very little to do with it, eh?

I'm with OGE. Ya gotta trust your fellow leader in uniform. Maybe it was the boy's parent. Maybe it was a good scouter who was having a serious conversation with a lad about something of greater importance (his parents getting divorced? his brother going to jail? his girlfriend being pregnant? his mom dying of cancer? ). If he waived you off, take the waive off in stride as cheerful service and support of a fellow scouter, who may be dealing with things you don't know about. Kids smoking is an important issue, but it isn't always the most important issue, eh?

High Water Cited in Boy's Death Swollen River likely a factor in Scout's drowning, officials say Arkansas Democrat-Gazette A swollen river from heavy rainfall Friday and Saturday likely contributed to the drowning of a Little Rock Boy Scout during a Sunday canoe trip, officials said. The U.S. Geological Survey indicated the Caddo River in Montgomery County was near flood level Sunday afternoon when Hari Natgunasekaram drowned after his canoe tipped over. Hari, who was 11 or 12, was with members of Troop 59 of Little Rock who had gone to the river for a canoe trip, acco

Beav...where do you see difficulty for the PLC? Nice setup, anarchist. And nice implementation of youth run (with da occasional necessary promptin'). It definitely helps to be a big troop, eh? (way bigger than the average troop size around here). I've only seen this kind of setup in big troops. Da challenge I saw for the PLC was that your multi-layer stuff involves 2 or 3 times the plannin' load. Now, if you're mostly repeatin' year to year, that drops a fair bit. The second challenge I saw was instructional/leadership support for the multi-layers. How many older scouts do

In all your time, kd, what was your favorite scouting volunteer job? Da one that you remember most fondly as "magic." Go back and do that one. Just that one. Or, it could be that one of the things that's "magic" for you is learning/doing new things, since you've served at so many levels. If you've exhausted the list of scouting things, consider becomin' a LNT master, an ARC instructor, or some other outside thing that can bring back to kids in Scouting. Or perhaps it's time to leave scoutin', and take your skills to your local school system in some way (tutor? mentor? outdoor p

We seem to concur that the biggest failure of Crews, is that they do not tie themselves with any of the five Venturing Specialities Gotta agree with this, eh? A crew that tries to be more than one of those things ends up doin' nothin' very well. Ya have to know who you are and what you're sellin'. In fact, there should be different names for each group so as to clearly distinguish them. I'm not sure why they all have to be called "Venturing". After all "Sea Scouts" keeps its own name and distinct character. I'm not sure I buy the middle-school style monthly themes, though.

If Gern's theory holds any water, whose sandbox rules applied, the BSA's or the CO's? The BSA stopped deliverin' sand. Since that pack and troop are apparently the only scouting game in town, they could just keep right on with business as usual, decidin' on a uniform, running trips and handing out their own parallel awards. In a few years, a DE anxious about "numbers" would re-issue a charter. Who knows, that may be how it plays. Or it may be dat the CO's make some leadership changes to the council and re-issue the charter. Or.... Lucky for the BSA that the CO was the ELCA and

FScouter declared publicly an ethical position that he presumed applied to all of us in Scouting, to the point of calling other scouters unethical who did not comply with his view. I declared publically the contrary position. But you're right, OGE, while addressing the counterpoint to the argument is OK publically, takin' him to task for the unethical comment should have been done in private. My apologies to FScouter and the group.(This message has been edited by Beavah)

Yah, mine too jr56. I wonder how many troops have protocols for this? One troop I know that has its act together has the scout leader call the COR, who then goes with the IH to personally notify the parents. Statistically, this might be more likely to be used to notify the family of an adult's death on a trip. They also have a very well thought-out in-troop accident review process. In many rivers, "strainers" like the one described are da most serious hazards. Even fairly mild current can pin a canoe or a person underwater against a tree. I wonder how many troops are aware of the ha

Minimum requirements is your opportunity to help boys develop habits that lead to character. Yeh really think so, Eagledad? I've always thought of minimum requirements as a sort of a bureaucratic self-defense mechanism to try to fend off complainers, eh? In my mind, I've never associated meeting just the minimum requirements with what I'd call "character." Da Scout Oath and Law aren't about minimums. They're about maximums. Each boy doing his personal best to do his duty, to go out of his way to serve others, to work hard to develop his skills and fitness. In da cha

Anarchist, how big is your troop? Seems like a much higher plannin' load than normal for an average set of PLC boys, eh?

FScouter in the Squirtguns thread writes: It is unethical to pick and choose which rules we follow, and unethical to teach boys the same. Yah, I wasn't sure which side of the squirtgun issue F was on, eh? But I'm troubled by da abandon with which F slaps his fellow volunteers with the "unethical" label. I am sorry to put this in a Christian context, but I trust others will add from their traditions. "On the sabbath... his disciples plucked and ate some heads of grain. And some of the Pharisees said, 'Why are you doing what is not lawful on the sabbath?' ... and again "The sc

I told this to the District Commish, and he said, and I quote "they're wrong; you answer to me; I AM the District!" (tact is not one his strong suits.) Nor knowledge of the rules and relationships it would seem. I love it as a UC when people in support positions start to think of themselves as feudal lords, eh? I'd encourage you to write up the conversation as a formal complaint, then trot it off with the COR to the district chairman and the DE (with cc's to the CAC for courtesy). Nothin' about the requirement issue. The real issue is that this guy is out of line, backdoorin' the

There's got to be some more in da backstory on this, eh? Anyone live in the area?

What if parents/scout appeal to council and national? Will COR's position still hold weight? All the weight he/she chooses to exert. The COR can always exercise the nuclear option. He/she can remove the boy from the roster. Parents who aren't really interested in developing character and citizenship in their sons don't have an automatic right to participate in and earn scouting awards and honors.

National should buy that 5,000 acre camp that Chicago is tryin' to sell. Plenty of space.

- Firearm: Waterguns are not a firearm. Yah, but paintball toys and lasertag gizmos aren't firearms either, eh? And yeh could put a drop of food collorin' or kool-aid in a water pistol and then it would be a dreaded dye gun. The only reason given for prohibiting these (safe) activities is da bit about not pointing a "weapon-like doohickey" at another human (presumably because toy gun play offends someone's sensibilities). So what about old fashioned cowboy cap-guns like when I was a kid? Nerf guns? Those cute little ping-pong-ball guns? I used to spend hours playin' "A

SMT99, yeh should of course do what is right for the boy, eh? You know that, we all know that. And what's right for the boy is to teach him (and all the other boys) that a position of responsibility requires livin' up to the responsibility. If you're quick on the trigger, remove him. If you're not, don't sign. If a bureaucrat of a Commish gives you grief, tell him to go back to trainin' on what our aims and methods really mean. It's sad that every youth activity - school, sports, scouts, bands, theater, whatever - has parents like this mom. Some of da saddest cases are when th

Not to get overly picky about nits, but it is important that we all understand da relationship, eh? The BSA's actions are limited to refusing to grant a charter to use the BSA's Boy Scout program materials. They can refuse to deliver sand to the CO's sandbox in the CO's playground. The BSA can deny registration to an adult, as part of its duty under the charter agreement to "assist" the CO in leader selection and training. But the CO can still allow the adult to participate in its youth programs, including the troop, in the same way that it can allow non-registered parents, its yout

To complete an overly silly analogy for those who care, it's the CO's sandbox, but the BSA is the sand provider. The CO gets to decide who comes to play, and whether the sand is used to just dig around in or is mixed with water to build sandcastles or with cement to build a skateboard park. The BSA can choose not to sell them sand each year. And the BSA has a monopoly on sand. So they can leverage the monopoly in certain ways to try to make the CO do some things with its sandbox, by threatening not to deliver sand. In the big world of adults, we usually call such a practice a violatio