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I've seen the science center have some as well. But, our council arranges a number of events (haunted trail night, ski days) open to scouts of all stripes.Often times the ideas came from our Venturing Officer's Association.

Check Red's position patch. It might still be ASM! Yeah, I remember that "Young buck thinks hew knows is stuff", eye roll. Just put it in the form of a question, "Says here that Pack epaulets are blue for all adults. Think we should sync up?"

Meanwhile the Orthodox wait patiently for y'all to come back to the fold. (Reunions of mixed-religion family in WV were the best! Kinda prepared me for mixed religion troops.)

Let your bear DL know about his mistake. If you can afford to cover it, buy his epaulets on condition that someday he'll look into volunteering as an adult for a venturing crew. (Suggest he hang them from the bathroom mirror until that day. Mrs. Bear DL will love you for it!) Also inform your other den leaders of the proper insignia, but let them know nobody has to make any immediate changes. The one leader may be a leader in a troop, so you may do well to ask why their uniforms are the way they are. Say it once, don't harp on it. This is one of those things that you'll always notice but won't change how much your people love their boys.

Not according to the BSA charter agreement: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/524-182_web.pdf Chartered organizations must utilize the Scouting program to accomplish specific objectives related to one or more of the following: o Youth character development o Career skill development o Community service o Patriotism and military and veteran recognition o Faith-based youth ministry

@@NJCubScouter, when did YOU earn your 1st MB? Tenderfoot? As soon as I unearth mine req book, I'll let you know if I can figure out which of mine came first.

@@RogueRiverRun, welcome to the forums! A boy wants to earn a MB? Got a good counselor for him? GIVE HIM HIS BLUE CARD! If he earns it before getting his scout badge, I'd give him the patch at a meeting, and tell him you would like his next badge to be oval. Then I'd turn to the Star and Life Scouts and say "Hmmm, new boy is earning MBs ... while you guys are doing what?" The trail to First Class is the real base in terms of preparing a boy to hike and camp independently with his mates. But not all MBs build off of that base. In fact, most don't. Also, in any troop I cared about, the trail to First Class took a couple of years to earn. Working on MBs never got in the way of a boy earning Scout. In fact many counselors, as they work with a boy, will ask about his rank, his patrol, etc ... So if the boy needs "that extra nudge" to advance an oval, he might just get it there.

I suggest both requesting a BoR under disputed circumstances and having a conference with the SM of the new troop, just to get his opinion. The reason? Well, it sounds like Zuzyson would dispute the reasons why SM is refusing to sign off. He thinks he should make Eagle in his current troop, but he's being denied for reasons that he deems to be unfounded based on BSA's rank requirements. However, the boy clearly wants to be in an environment that will welcome him and involve him. So, rather than waiting around for some responsibility in the new troop, he should talk to the new SM about the mess that transpired this year. The SM might include some other scouts, SPL or whomever. There may be some things that need to be done in the troop that would fit into his sports schedule.

@@mashmaster, every day? That's 20% Islamic! FWIW, nearly everyone I've met from the Southern Baptist convention has broken any stereotype applied to them. I've always maintained that attendance at vespers (which at our camp was only once during the week) be strictly voluntary. Certainly with our troop, we've felt the boys did just as well themselves. I agree with @@meyerc13, except with the OP you have a situation where a boy thinks that how he does things may offend, and maybe he thinks that if he changes how he thinks he does things, it will be worse. The CO has made clear that it wants things done in a way that everyone from every walk of life including parents can be comfortable. Therefore, it's the boy who will have to adjust. (Gotta give the kid credit for knowing this in advance.) So, having the boy talk to his clergy (maybe even giving the clergy a call yourself to understand where the boy may be coming from) might be a useful growing experience. It might help him understand what his boundaries really are, and why. It would also allow him a way to explain it to his troop-mates so that when he does lead prayer even when not fulfilling his PoR (say, grace at table), he does so in a way that makes others welcome. In the long run, that might actually make some lost sheep amenable to his Lord.

I think a lot of PLs would concurr with Pareto! Although a first year scout may disagree, there really isn't a lot of work for a patrol on an average outing: get there, pitch camp, keep warm, make food, clean-up, strike camp. Plenty of slack time. If you had a specialty team of boys go around and set up shelter, would they get it done faster? Most definitely! Best cooks in the entire troop prepare meals? Sure, the food would be tastier! We seem to always have that one boy who loves to split wood. If we never let anyone else in the ax yard, we could have four walls and half a roof of stacked board by sunset. But it's not really about perfect canvas, gormet meals, and a lumber yard. It's about taking care of your people. And I guess that's another reason for eight. If you're a slacker, there's seven people closest to you to call you out on it. It's a lot harder to slip through the cracks.

I'll also point out that most wilderness areas set a limit of no greater than 10 per party. More fragile areas may insist on even smaller numbers. I've seen when those limits are ignored, some trails can feel like grand central station. (E.g., four groups of 8 people walking by my site over the course of an afternoon is actually kind of fun. If all 32 passed by at once, I'd feel stampeded.)

Some of the topics had mentioned patrol size. We've touched on this before in heated discussion quite a few years back (http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/8394-patrol-size/page-5), and it was recently brought up in Bryan's blog (http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/forums/topic/ideal-troop-size/). Eight, give or take a couple, most of us have found really works well for patrols. If we can get that many boys hiking and camping together regularly, their scouting experience seems to blossom. So, this topic is simply to discuss why? Science, pseudoscience, silly jokes, all explanations welcome ...

Feel free to use my illustration, be sure to preface with "Some stranger on the Internet explained it this way ... P.S. -- Son #2 warned me to never use it on any scouts ever ... So, you know it's gotta be good!

This is part of the Christian challenge. They know that God listens regardless of he form used, because their Master taught us to look forward to a day when everyone worships "in spirit and in truth." But they are also called to, in going into all the world. Preach good news to every creature ... So, prayers take a form that emphasizes in whose name they are doing this. The paradox is, when Jesus talked about using his name, it was about everything except praying (e.g., making disciples, teaching, baptizing ..., healing, xcorscism). When He was talking about prayer, he never said "and be sure to drop my name." So, we wind up with boys being taught that form is really important, but they aren't taught how to admit that this is the a form they are obliged to follow, and others are welcome to join him by silently using their form, and we're sure the Almighty will graciously attend to us all.

Thanks 'Skip, I figured British scouters could furnish more details and corrections.We can wait until next week for your reply, or maybe other Brits will round things out. How much do you think the workings of Scout's UK has penetrated the market? For example, here we can't go two weeks without some reference to "Boy Scout" or "Eagle Scout" in reference to some service project or rescue in news or theatre. It's hard to have a conversation with anyone who doesn't ask "Did you earn Eagle?" the minute they got wind that you were in BSA. (GIrl Scouts, on the other hand aren't nearly as well known for their Gold award.) how widely recognized is queen scout?

Lots of misinformation from both young men. The British lad clearly wasn't much for advancement, the American lad never took any true wilderness hikes. But, it is a good lesson on the different "messages" boys get from their scouting career. Son #s's roommate was an Eagle Scout, and they had fun comparing and contrasting their experiences. It would have been nice to get a video of that.

Our crew operated well with two meetings and one activity a month. Meetings ran 1/2 to 1 hour.It really depends on their objectives. Tour plans were best when my VP-Program filled out pdf for me to sign. Now they have to feed me details, and I file it. If my CO offered Internet, I would log in and have then complete it during the meeting.

Wait, everyone gets one post. @@Stosh!

By the way of helping the boy, I would encourage him to talk to his pastor about earning the religious award for his denomination. That may give him some broader view of public prayer.

Step 1: Envision the pinnacle scouting experience of youth hiking and camping independently with their mates. Step 2: Ask every adult in the room to do the same. (Depending on your audience, you may need to emphasize one word in that vision over the others.) Step 3: Ask every youth to do the same. (This may involve turning off some electronics.) Ask them what they think that would look like, where they think it would be, who they think it will be with, who will most likely get them there. Make it clear that when that is happening on a monthly basis "they will have arrived" as a scout. Then hold up the handbook and say, "Make it so by reading this and doing what's in it. Any questions?" Then, what @@Stosh said is about as good a start as any. But, it's possible that when they tell you who they think it would be with, they will answer "our respective patrols, and our PLs will get us there." If so, then start at the training. Step 4. At every success, remind them "You are that much closer to the pinnacle scouting experience. Keep it up!" Be sure to brag about it to the kid's mom and dad as well. At every failure, return to step 1 or step 2. They should go more smoothly each time.

How does the discussion about patrol method have less value because someone disagrees with you on advancement? Before my ice cream cone analogy, should I have posted a disclaimer that readers might disagree with me on troop-crew associations, the use of generic but uncommon terms for the opposing sexual ethics of the day, or my general belief in forced marches in bear country as a tonic for self-absorbed teens? You're allowed your soap-box. But I'm not seeing the relevance. Most SPLs who I know are Star or Life scouts. Their EBoR is a ways off. And if an SM (or ASMs or even a district) thinks they should or shouldn't be prepped for it has little to do with what it means to be "in charge" of a troop. Except maybe that's one more to tell a boy to prepare for: BoR member: "What did it mean for you to be in charge of your troop?" Scout: "Well sir, I read on scouter.com that it meant ..."

Welcome! Keep those Webelos patrolling, and that troop you're worried about will strengthen in the long run!

Where I've read people going off the rails with this "in charge" notion: The folks who think BSA has gone soft on rank advancement, when they aren't ranting about BORs not being allowed to retest, point to the panoply of PoRs in which a life scout may serve. Some go so far as to say only SPLs should apply for Eagle. It makes sense if Eagle is about being "in charge" .... one figures only boys who've actually been in charge of a whole troop have proven themselves Eagle material. Sounds really clever, until you realize that the position would reduce to a six month rotation, with some boys marking time when they could be doing something really awesome for their troop.

@@LilSisKin, welcome to the Forums! I've run the gamut of letting these things slide because most of the boys were Christians of some sort and the non-Christians felt that if the kid didn't follow his convictions, it would be an unworthy offering. counseling the boy and his parents about how sometimes God works in mysterious ways, and we have to understand that phrases which convey joy or wonder to some convey pogroms or holy wrath to others. asking the boy to get volunteers to help him so that his job is more of a facilitator than they only "voice from the pulpit." I wouldn't just count on letting him explain things at election time and if the boys vote for them, they are stuck with him. That doesn't match real life. Winners usually have to make the biggest concessions.

Not a universal experience. None of the boys from our troop who joined a crew (mine or another one devoted to LARPing) left the troop. On the other hand, a minority of boys who were not in a crew stayed in our troop. We've discussed troop/crew operations before ... so I won't belabor the point. Bottom line: Keep the boys on task. Use troop meetings to discuss troop stuff. Crew meetings to discuss crew stuff. Once trained, the SPL and Crew President can get together and decide if an activity should be shared. Then one welcomes the other to a meeting to extend a formal invite. Avoid schedule overlap about as much as the troop tries to avoid conflicting O/A and district events.