Peregrinator

Then what? Are you saying that, if parents of a sick child just rub water on him/her, that this would be regarded as sufficient medical care? Where? I took "rubbing water" as an example. Did you mean it to be specific? History is rife with other examples, such as patent medicines to help your kids sleep which contained alcohol and opium. Do you know of many examples in which religious people merely "rub water" on their children, pray, and do nothing else? I'm not terribly familiar with this phenomenon. Where is a successful non-religious defense of something so stupid? Sur

I said religion is the only way someone can get away with ridiculous things like rubbing water on someone and praying and successfully defend their assertion that they have provided medical care. Well, of course. Since only people who follow a religion (to a greater or lesser degree) pray, this is a tautology. But if you take out the "and praying" clause -- I said religion is the only way someone can get away with ridiculous things like rubbing water on someone and successfully defend their assertion that they have provided medical care. -- then you are quite wrong. Do you earne

So GS troops have the ability to say no to a girl for any or no reason. What about the troop in Denver that was told they were wrong not to accept the boy who dressed like a girl? Oh, I see, they only have the ability to say no to girls for whatever reason. ;-)

Show me the cub scout or boy scout group that doesn't adhere to this...with no leaders present. Of course children adhere to it ... it is the job of adults, including scout chiefs, to get them away from that mode of thought. "To do a good turn for somebody every day" - "To help others at all times" ... these stand in radical opposition to the motto of the sex liberation movement "if it feels good, do it."

You can say that again.

I'm sure Sen. Lesniak said "gay boys" as opposed to "gayboys" (which certainly *would* sound creepy).

It would be more likely for a Catholic Church to turn to Little Flowers as an alternative to Girl Scouting. The program is based on Catholic doctrine, and would be a better fit that AHG. Little Flowers isn't a scouting program. Same can be said of the Blue Knights.

As I mentioned earlier - the Catholic Committee on Scouting is DIRECTLY tied to the BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA. BSA is even a part of it's symbol. That is true of the National Committee but not of the various diocesan committees.

True, but partnering doesn't mean that the troops do everything together, it just means that they share resources and do some things together.

So the BSA admitting gays would make the other kids at school less likely to call those wearing their scout shirts "gay"?

What a crock of bull Pere, you are either not a parent or are a total control freak over your kids lives. Making an educated decision for one's children is not remotely akin to being a "control freak" (and by the way, not that it is any of your business, but I have three kids and another on the way). For example, I don't have to let my kids try a school before I know it's not for them (especially if I know from personal experience). If my daughter is thriving in a non-GSUSA organization, why would I need to let her try the GSUSA? The likelihood that she would even ask to try is nil.

Does the AHG's "Statement of Faith" or "Creed" or whatever say anything about divorce? If so I missed it. Is it better to have high standards and fail to achieve them, or no standards whatsoever?

My question is what does the BSA get by partnering with the AHG? That's a question that had occurred to me as well. My only guess is that they get the assurance that the AHG will not start an alternative scouting organization for boys.

Then why don't YOU follow your own advice and let your daughter experience GSUSA as well as the AHG and decide for herself what she likes best. Because that's not how parenting works.

why are the AHG so desperate to be accepted by the BSA and RC Church? The answer is simple its called Survival. They have been unable to gain any real numbers in units or membership They have what, 19,000 members? That's pretty impressive for an organization that started in 1995, especially considering that it is drawing from the same pool of young girls who might otherwise be involved with the GSUSA or CampFire. I don't see anything in the AHG beliefs that conflict with Catholic teaching. Some Christian organizations, for example, include something about believing the Bible to be th

I have a lady friend who is involved with an LDS Troop with her son. She is very active and enjoys Scouting immensely. Her troop chooses to cabin camp at summer camp. But she is not allowed to be in the cabin. Instead she is given a tent to sleep outside of the cabin. She told me she is not allowed to be in the cabin with the males. That is a wise policy, but if you ask me, she should get the cabin and the troop should sleep in tents!

There are some nicknames that are appropriate at least at the cub level: http://tidworthscoutgroup.terapad.com/index.cfm?fa=contentGeneric.rnqnnnncwshrkaco&pageId=4775268 I might take exception to someone's being singled out as the smallest cub, or the loudest, or the fattest(!), but what harm can come from nicknaming a scout "Tall Pine" or "Hawkeye"? Just avoid anything that might call attention to something embarrassing, focus on positive nicknames instead.

Most of the rest of us who are, ahem, "fat", don't have as good an excuse. I still haven't figured out, though, why the BSA says that (at least weight-wise) I am ok to go on any high adventure trip, but the BMI chart says I am "obese" Because the BMI chart is bull. I think there is a considerable number of Olympic athletes (and not just the powerlifters, LOL) who would be considered "obese" according to the BMI chart. Heck, I am within a few pounds of "obese" myself according to the BMI chart, and while I will grant that I am overweight (I have a bit of a middle-aged gut), there is no way

What people seem to want is freedom of religion for individuals but not groups, even when those groups are private or have religion as their primary mission.

Pere......catholic schools are typically the best educational oppurunities in most communities....It is a case of people of means doing the best for their kids. I don't think scouting of any kind falls in that class. I could see how some parents might be disillusioned with the GSUSA and choosing the AHG even though they don't think it's ideal ... similarly, I think there are people who choose Catholic schools over public schools for the same reason.

I suspect it would be rather like the phenomenon of non-Catholic (and even non-Christian) students attending a Catholic school.

I just can't see how an organization that declares that it builds good citizens can turn around and assert that those basic, fundamental principles don't apply to itself. What if a Scout or Scouter wanted to express his opinion that scouting should not be about building good citizens? Does free speech apply then?

As for the issues that some have brought up about letting in girls and atheists: One thing at a time. We'll get there. It strikes me that there are many more girls (approximately 50% of the population) and even more atheists (2-9% in the United States) than there are gays (2-4% of the population). Why is the gay issue paramount?

My understanding is that while the AHG is explicitly Christian, membership in it is not closed to non-Christians. So the first issue identified by BSA24 should not be an issue at all (unless, of course, the chartered group wishes to limit itself to Christians). It could be that a non-Christian family would not be comfortable with that. But it's not like they are being specifically excluded from the program.

If you report an incident to the police, then THEY are responsible for the follow up. I would think that both are responsible (the police and the youth organization). Of course the police are responsible if any arrests need to be made, the district attorney is responsible for pressing charges, etc.; but the youth organization is still responsible for the children in its charge. Even if the public authorities decline to make an arrest or press charges, the organization must still try to determine whether the allegations are founded or unfounded. And if they determine that the allegations a