ParkMan

While it might be nice for the DE to do a little more proactive outreach, this sounds about right. The DE is a district level player. If you guys are not involved at the district level and just focus internally - then why would he interact with you?

I've had Scouters try to jump through hoops before to get around G2SS rules by saying - we'll, if I do it and it's not really Scouting - is that OK. My guess is that's what they are trying to get around.

I think I missed something when I took the course, because it really didn't impact me or my patrol. I will always remember that at the cracker barrel after the game, the staff kept asking us if we were OK. We were baffled why they were so concerned. But, having gone back as a staffer and then also talking to lots of folks, I do understand it. I think it's unfortunate how it impacts people. The core message I'm OK with - check the natural desire to personally win against the much larger benefit the group gains by succeeding together. A little I'm reminded about the Mike Rowe topic

I think the professional is just giving you grief about having a breaking point. This period in Scouting history is testing us all - I wouldn't sweat it.

It seem to me the implication of the fact that the district volunteers really run the district is that there really shouldn't be much the DE does directly for units. Yes, the DE needs to be an ambassador of the professional staff. But, expectations like the DE arranging programming, informing units about activities, etc. are really beyond the role description. Now, I would expect the DE to have developed relationships with the primary outward facing volunteers in the units - the CC, SM/CM/Advisor, and the COR (if they are active). A DE probably doesn't need to know the ASMs, den leader

Yes - let's not get into debate of who cares more - volunteers vs. professionals. That's will never end. It's pretty clear from the structure of the BSA that volunteers are designed to run things. The phrase I've heard time and time again is "volunteer led, professionally guided". The challenge of course is that someone has to keep the lights on. The professional staff, by the nature of being paid staff, is in a unique position to fill in the gaps left by volunteers. I suspect many professionals find it easier to skip the volunteer role and go straight to just doing it themself

Ok, so here's the current issue list: 1) should the BSA attempt to change WOSM rules such that they match BSA rules? 2) should the BSA attend a WOSM event if there are rules more permissive than BSA rules? 3) should BSA leaders be empowered to instruct youth on the differences between BSA rules and WOSM rules. FWIW - my opinion on the above. 1. Depends, but probably not. In the case of condom distribution - this is an unsettled social topic with pros and cons on both sides. 2. Yes - the pros of attending a WOSM outweighs the risks taken on by having condom

Feels to me like we're essentially at the same place. We just disagree on whether the BSA should participate or not. Not sure there's really an answer here so much as a choice.

Does kinda seem like the same thread doesn't it

I think that's part of it. It's not the CO model itself, but the fact that individual religions represent large proportions of the COs. When you have any religion that is 10% of the COs, I have to imagine they will influence policy. I think there are probably others. One is the headquarters location. BSA - Irving, TX. GSUSA - NYC. I have to imagine some of these things are influenced by the working staff in the headquarters office.

Yeah - not sure what it is about the BSA, but we always seem to be influenced a lot more by our conservative members. The GSUSA not so much.

Honestly I think this is a much better question. Should the BSA participate in or host a WSJ if the rules in conflict with our own G2SS. Me - I'd say yes. The experience of a WSJ is significant enough that attending is worth the exception for these cases. Further, the BSA should make it crystal clear to a participant from within the BSA that the rules are different. Make parents sign a document stating that they are aware of this difference.

Not knocking the perspective, but I see it very differently. This is the World Scout Jamboree. This is a big deal. Having it here on our turf will allow so many more Scouts to attend. If my son hadn't bailed on scouting, I'd have signed him up in a heartbeat. I can accept that the BSA made an exception and is following the guidelines of the WOSM. It's like a host country making an exception for the Olympics. If the BSA refused to host it because of this, I would be very disappointed. I can deal with these exceptions so that our scouts get the opportunity to attend the WSJ

What do you see as the relationship between the district volunteers and the DE? For example - what is the DE supposed to do compared to the district finance chair? The DE compared to the membership chair? The DE compared to the District Chair? I appreciate that to the othet professionals, the DE has accountability that stuff gets done. But - if things are functioning correctly and the district committee is doing it's job - what's the thinking? I probably should have been clearer when I said problem solver. Generally I turn to the Unit Commissioner for volunteer issues. My q

I think the quote is: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

I really appreciate your insight into the DE role. I appreciate working with my DE as he's been outstanding. I expect you'll see some pushback on this comment. I get what you're saying. I find the majority of Scouters view the DE like other district & council level scouters. Those higher level Scouters are ultimately there to help units succeed. So while yes, we all want to help each other - most volunteers are not looking at how they can help a DE out. One thing that I think would help here is the development of a "purpose statement" for the DE role. What is the primar

I'd just be upfront with my families about it. Something like: This is a World Organization of the Scouting Movement (WOSM) event and these are their rules. The BSA under the terms of the agreement to serve as host is bound to implement the WOSM rules. The BSA is working to implement those rules in a way that is consistent with the BSA's values - but ultimately the BSA will comply with tho WOSM rules. The however, does not indicate a change in the rules of the BSA itself. This is a unique situation due to the nature of this specific event. We as parents and leaders may have pref

To me - I've always felt that Scouting was about developing self confidence and leadership skills. Over their time in the program they go through all kinds of life challenges that they overcome - camping, earning awards, etc. In the process, they develop the skills and tools that stay with them for life. I've always used the example. Because I was a scout, someone could plop me down anywhere - in a city, in the desert, in the middle of the forest, and I felt confident that I could find my way home.

Feels to me like we've got an impass on some of these topics. Both sides believe their positions. Both see national decisions as significant enough to leave the movement. Given that you have to make a choice on these topics - girls in Scouting, gays in Scouting, religion in Scouting, we appear trapped as a movement. Choices either make the traditionalists/conservatives happy or make the progressives/liberals happy. My preference would be for local choice - don't impose your morals on me and I won't impose mine on you. But, even that is controversial. In my mind, Scouting is so m

Nah - you don't need to spend that money every year. The pack should buy new neckerchiefs for every scout. Make it part of the program. Add in $10 to the dues at the beginning of the year. Don't require the hat. Each den should make their own neckerchief slides. The scouts buy one belt buckle when they start cubs, one when they get the tan uniform.

I think there's a bunch of steps that can happen here before you start calling district and council folks. As has already been shared - talk with the Scoutmaster. There's about a 95% chance that's all it will take. The conversation is simply one of "my son's going to have a hard time advancing if he has to write out these worksheets." Just about every Scoutmaster I know would say "well, then let's find another way". If the Scoutmaster doesn't work out, then you call the Committee Chair. The Scoutmaster serves as the discretion of the Committee. The chair of the Committee has a

My understanding is that the WOSM is like the United Nations. National Scouting organizations can be members and work collectively together, but they don't grant the license for a Scouting association.

The BSA training is absolutely lacking in the how to run unit department. The primary training for unit leaders is: - SM basic training - Intro to Outdoor skills - Leadership training There is absolutely a series of classes needed around how to actually run a troop. I can spout off the stages of team development in my sleep. But, how to make patrols function in a meaningful way - nope.

Ohh - that never even crossed my mind. Thanks!

Moderators, Got to admit. I'm not sure why you locked and then hid the thread. Was it because of the "adult nature" of the content? Was it because of the debate over values? The comment and you'll lock future threads just has me wondering what to stay away from. Not complaining or questioning, just looking for clarity.