packsaddle

ScoutmasterJerry, Welcome to the forums. It will be good to read your contributions.

Speaking of antiques, my wife recently prevailed on me to get rid of my old home-made, soldered steel conduit, 1960s vintage pack frame with rope straps and no belt. Wow, not much nostalgia associated with that thing...I thought I might use it to scare the boys. Anyway, it'll be part of a tractor or a rebar or something soon.

Yeah, I understand how that would make you sensitive. I had a nearly perfect EBOR...perfect, that is, in the manner it was run - I have no idea if my performance was exemplary but I was evidently good enough to pass. I use my students as a model for these things. If I stand at the beginning of lecture and remind them that tomorrow is election day and urge all the students to participate in the election, I am engaging in public service. If I urge them to vote in any particular manner, I might get fired and rightly so. If I engage them in a discussion of the political issues in my science course, I will be derelict in my duties. The problem comes when there is a political dimension to a scientific issue. That's when the fun begins.

Welcome to the forums. Yeah, I look at my old cruiser frames and at the packs that came with them...and I am racked by waves of nostalgia. But if you have the right frame (cruiser or freighter by Camp Trails or similar) you might try to find the Camp Trails Moose pack. At one time the bag was sold separately without the frame. Here's a link to a store that makes packs that fit the Camp Trails frame: http://www.trailspace.com/gear/barneys-sports-chalet/super-moose/ It's a bit pricey though. Nevertheless I would love to make those old packs as good as new. I just know it will require a very strong sewing machine and a good bit of skill to make the parts correctly.

Yeah, in the parent thread I could see how the question was asked could make a big difference in its effect on the boy. The parent question would have worked better if it had been, "Are you going to vote in November?" rather than, "Who are you going to vote for?". To your list I would add: Try to find adults who make good BOR members, in order to avoid having to do any of the other things on your list. But for this thread, I have one question and one comment, somewhat related. The question: Are there objective criteria that identify whether or not an adult action is 'appropriate'? Of course some adult actions are clearly inappropriate...I'm asking about the gray areas. For example, what Beavah thinks is within bounds might be viewed as out of bounds by Bob White (but this is purely hypothetical, of course). It is my observation that even the homogeneous personalities of these forums sometimes have different opinions about what actions (or BOR questions) are appropriate. I could be wrong but I suspect a significant element of subjectivity for most of us.

Ed, when the jack-booted thugs come to rip the patches off your worn-out shirts, you'll know it then. But just now you don't have to worry about it because they're all so busy amassing on our borders for the invasion.

Scoutldr, meee tooo, but somehow I think I'm not going to miss it. I'll be in Yellowstone for a couple of weeks starting 1 May (going solo) and then three weeks in the Caribbean surveying aquatic resources on Dominica, then my old outfit asked me to leave the university and rejoin them for the last part of the summer to do some work out in Oregon. Heck, I might just stay, life's good! But my courses are already filled for the fall so I'll come back anyway to plan for them.

Of course no one really knows for sure what we'll do in November, only what our intentions are at this moment. But the question is, as mentioned, probably related to the topic of citizenship. I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as the boy wasn't pressured to state his choice if he didn't want to. The question actually could be used to break the ice and have a fun conversation...kind of like this forum.

Gold Winger, It doesn't bother me either...but then I'm OK with pretty much anything someone wants to call me. I like to see them flaming off, kind of reduces the pressure - you know, the sphincter factor (sometimes known as 'pucker factor'). I have to tell you I've seen some people who were about to bite a hole in their chair....but then after flinging a few really juicy names at me, they felt a lot better. Edited part: Hotdesk, this topic has come up in these threads before. I remember replying to Bob White a long time ago with regard to the names we call our pets. I mentioned that our dog was named after a food item, "Pepper", and after reading the thread, I felt really guilty.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

I guess I'm just an old-fashioned, conservative sort of guy but I have always understood a 'kid' to be a baby goat.

Ed, I don't know about that but I'm guessing you are ripe for a subsciption to Mother Jones magazine, heh, heh. But I guess we've had enough fun with this. As a member I do follow the rules of membership. And I know that if I abuse the display of BSA trademarks, etc., I'll risk some kind of response, possibly loss of membership. And I'm sure there must be examples somewhere in which uniforms have been confiscated or in which court orders have prohibited the wearing of the uniform. Right? So...where are those examples? Anyone ever hear of this? Please, this inquiring mind wants to know.

You and I, Ed. We're going to save the first amendment! I wish I had thought to wear my uniform to the recent Ann Coulter event....you know, to balance that gay pride rally down the road. To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a shirt is just a shirt. Just because it has an official logo on it doesn't necessarily mean there is a claim of membership. If that was true, then there would be some formal kind of agreement attached to the purchase. I'll use my old Yankees shirt to scrub our kennel on YouTube. I doubt I'll hear a peep from the NY Yankees.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

I own an official Mets hat and windbreaker (mostly to needle my daughter - My Entire Team Sucks) and my daughter owns an official Yankees jacket. They're ours and we'll darn well wear them wherever we please for whatever purpose, even while extorting parking fees on behalf of the troop. If non-BSA members purchase official BSA shirts from a department store somewhere (and we can still do this around here), there is no legal limitation I know of that applies to them with regard to how or where they wear the shirts - including a gay pride parade or down the runway as a male stripper for some women's club, soliciting dollars stuffed into their official BSA garters. As a matter of fact, it's been my experience that many women find uniforms attractive. H'mm, maybe I should think about this some more.

When I was CM I noticed that adults tended to wilt at Bear or Webelos level. So I would have welcomed someone to take on a Bear den and take them through Webelos. I think the pack would have retained a few boys if someone like that had been available.

Hello cad-guy, no offence intended. You wrote, "I take offese to you assuming that we are "scalping" for as high a price as we can. We see an opportunity to raise money (maybe 2 bucks a parking spot, we are surely not getting rich) and have an informational table set up to show folks some of our scouting activities." Heck, you need to think about ramping up the operation! We sometimes get $20-40 a pop, depending on how sold-out the event is and whether they're arriving late. It's called the marketplace and if they don't want to pay the price for the product, they're free to walk a few hundred yards from the remote parking. The boys get a great lesson in business sense and entrepreneurship (the American economic system, Love it or Leave it) and besides, the pigeons..(oops, I mean, "customers") have plenty of coins to pay the price. Heck, even those little girl beggars sometimes collect a couple of hundred bucks each if it's cold and rainy. Of course, it's also possible that you're just not accustomed to my sense of humor. Like I said, no offence intended.

We call it scalping real estate. Allow desperate people to park on CO property for sports/entertainment events...for as steep a fee as we can extort from them. We also dress the little sisters up in ragged clothes and stand them in the median as the traffic jam slowly passes by...holding out an empty coffee can or something, begging for donations to help a charitable cause. What does the council have to do with any of this if we're not masquerading as scouts?

I think I understand the tension for this topic. I feel it every time I camp with a group, whether adult or boys. There is nothing as sublime as the sense of serene reverence of being alone in the deep forest with no sounds or sensations other than the wild around you. When this unit backpacks I accept that there is almost nothing I can do to gain this feeling while surrounded by the boys. And I know they can't experience this either, as part of that group. So I take the view that a boy who is proficient can go it alone with one important qualification - he must not peel off from a troop event. If the troop has planned a troop event, then I require everyone, everyone...to pitch in to the troop event and that means I would not want anyone to go solo. I view this as part of the mentoring component...the proficient members need to stay close enough to provide the best examples of proficiency. There is also an element of safety. If a boy is allowed to go solo from a troop event, a boy who is not proficient might also decide he has similar license. So if I am in charge of a troop event, we do it as a unit, no exceptions. And at the same time, I encourage anyone who is proficient to go solo anytime they want to do it...on their own.

If we'd just enact the Fair Tax none of this would be an issue.

But the pain is just exquisite.

OK, why wouldn't it be 'directly' proportional?

Ahem, that wasn't RR but rather Emily Litella. Same actress, different character.

"Viva la differance!" Oh Morticia, you spoke French!

Holy Toledo! You're right! And I apologize to Ed...my bad. That was indeed your solution, not OGE's, and I wholeheartedly agree with it. Thanks, Ohio_Scouter for noting that - "I get by with a little help from my friends." Now...I'm going to make an appointment for some new glasses....

When I read (past tense) the parent thread I noted that Margaret allowed a significant time to elapse between one response and her reply. Perhaps she will hang on and after a similar time, return. But, aside from that, I agree with Beavah. He said it as well as I could hope for. Really, all this over a patch question? OGE had the answer I was going to suggest: velcro. We didn't fund the space program for nothing...or was that teflon?

You won't even make it for the first hour on the road before someone has to use the restroom. Might even be a leader. and Almost every boy will want to poke at or throw leaves on your cooking fire. and If you think you can get away with it, don't do it.