packsaddle

I'm with House on this. Everyone lies. And every lie is fundamentally a self-deception of some sort, perhaps a self-betrayal. That is the lesson to be taught at as early an age as possible. I agree with the idea that we are not in the 'punishment' business but rather teaching boys how to make the right decisions for the right reasons. In the case of the boys on the lighthouse....my first thought is - who could not predict the temptation of dropping something off the lighthouse? What if it was pennies? Rocks? Tomatoes? Feathers? Would this discussion be different for any of those? I also agree with regard to spitting. It seems to be a Southern tradition, perhaps associated with the days when nearly every male chewed REAL chewing tobacco and many of the women dipped REAL snuff. Back then spitting was an art...I can remember well the skill with which my great aunt could launch a gossamer, brown, liquid trajectory into a coffee can across the room next to the stove. Sure there were misses but that just introduced me into the laws of probability and the approximately normal distribution. She also had that wonderful brown ring of dried snuff juice around her lips. Mmmmmmmm. Today, it seems like local slouches with backward caps think it's cool to spit all the time. Who knows, maybe girls are attracted to it - they seem to reproduce successfully. Come to think of it, I had several dates with a girl who dipped. And she was OooooKaaaay. I can envision a good twangy country-western song... You broke my heart, When you knocked over my spitcup, All over my pickup, etc, etc.

Trevorum, I am mystified as to who would 'ignore' you, of all people. Amazing. Ed, I think it's possible that the Ed/Merlyn show might explain the 'ignores'. But in all cases I consider the 'ignore' feature of this forum to be counterproductive and unfriendly. I never use the feature. And Ed, if you ever want to plant that smooch, heh, heh, you might have to run a fast footrace. Hey, THAT would be a really interesting game of tag....

What IS sin anyway? How is sin different from, say, breaking the law, doing something thoughtless, or making a terrible mistake? Is there a scale of big ones (really bad ones) at one end and little ones (not so bad ones) at the other? Please explain in detail. Here are some examples to consider. Is it a sin: for Gern to scratch his butt in public? (I'm really hoping private is OK;)) for a restaurant to knowingly return an unused glass to the shelf without washing it? for a restaurant employee to return to work without washing her hands in the bathroom? for a person to 'double dip' at a party? for a little boy to scare the creeps out of his sister at Halloween? for a group of boys to prank a newbie with the old snipe hunt thing? for a group of boys to short sheet their scoutmaster? for a group of boys to throw the shoes from another troop onto the roof of the dining hall? for me to notice that an enemy's tire is flat and say nothing? for me to think of someone else as an enemy? for Ed to give me a hug when we meet? for Ed to give me a big smooch when we meet? for me to think of thoughts, deeds, and actions in terms of sin?

Summer camp is about 1 hour away. Updates are not much of an issue unless someone gets sick or injured. Most of the time parents are glad to have the vacation. On long trips, if I am the official leader I tell the parents that no news is good news. I designate one leader back home as the trip correspondent and I call them once a day to confirm that things are going well. Parents who are worried can relay their concerns through that leader who, most of the time, is prepared to allay their fears immediately. Happily, we've never had to test this system with an emergency of any kind.

Pretty much the same as Gonzo1. If a boy needs to call mom, he must ask a leader to use the leader's phone (which doesn't really get much of a signal anyway) or one of the camp counselors at the office. Tends to cut down on mom calls.

Hey man, I hope you discover the Holy Grail, I really do. I'm pullin' for ya.

Trev, so when did you decide to become a Presbyterian?

Merlyn, I contend that you'll have no information whatsoever at death. Your neurons will cease to fire, your metabolism will shut down and you will cease to exist except as a pile of quickly-decomposing organic chemicals. Your thoughts will cease, your memories vanish, your knowledge lost, at least anything that isn't written somewhere. Merlyn will only continue as whatever memories we continue to have or as whatever ideas you originated and communicated, that may still be propagated through the generations. But in less than 100 years you and most of the rest of us will be essentially anonymous, or at least long forgotten - even by our relatives. People will care nothing for you and the best you can hope for is an indifferent universe. Have a nice day.

"Now just hope that they are also taking payroll deductions for income tax. If not, you may end up paying taxes on their earnings." Gern, you and talen333 have noted the same problem. I'll just hope that the witholding process takes the taxes as well. H'mmmm, otherwise as King Pellinore would say, not if I have my trusty sword, I won't.

Gern, I'm sure your question was in jest but just to make sure...anyone who takes something that he shouldn't is guilty of theft. It doesn't matter how stupid the victim is. FYI, for most of the states, the credit freeze is free. Unfreezing it is also free. For those few states still mired in the past, it is available on a voluntary basis for a $10 fee for each credit bureau. Unlocking it is also $10 but you don't have to do it for each bureau, only the one the creditor uses to establish credit. Me, I'm working on my last shreds of debt...I'll be debt free in about two months. Yahoooooo! After that I couldn't care less what my rating is. Edited part: Just wondering...suppose an illegal immigrant gets my SSN. Then he uses it to earn a living, making a pile of money through his hard work and initiative - seems to me that when I retire I'll actually benefit from the 'theft'. Someone want to elaborate?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Folks, at least with regard to the potential theft from our investments and harm to our credit, there is a way to avoid these problems and simultaneously send an economic message up the line - freeze our credit. Here's a link: http://www.consumersunion.org/campaigns/learn_more/003484indiv.html Now I notice that several states (including GA - I can see AL but...GA? Wonder what's the problem) only offer this on a voluntary basis. However, for a mere $10 you can freeze your credit and anyone wanting to access it MUST have your security code (that only you will know) in order to unfreeze it (to buy a house, get a new credit card, etc.). In these days of cybertheft, this probably is the most powerful prevention tool there is. It doesn't merely turn off the spigot - it disconnects the pipe altogether. Ed, you might want to elaborate if you know more about it.

You know you"re getting old when . . .the kids refer to your college yearbook as the 'yellowpages'.

My wife refers to me as a 'space cadet' fairly often...does that count? Heh, heh, my son - when he was just learning to speak - had heard her call me that so often that one day after I goofed on something, he looked at me and pointed, laughing, and said in his dyslexic way, "Papa, you're an astronaut!". Hey, I'm IN!

Interesting topic, discussed before. I'm with Beavah on this, but Bob White is probably correct, there's little that can be done short of Gold Winger's open rebellion. The 'grandfathering' thing is interesting though. I was grandfathered in and, by my recollection, I've never been asked for my SSN. Nor have I signed the DRP. I've made this point before...if BSA is as diligent with the application info as they are with the advancement info, it's possible that my file contains Beavah's address and Evmori's SSN. Thanks guys!

Same experience here, GWD. I have been continually disappointed when comparing this lodge to the one I was in as a boy scout. No comparison at all. But then, I don't have time to volunteer for everything so I'm willing to let it whimper into oblivion if that's its fate.

Someone else will have to address your question regarding budgets. I suspect there is a lot of local variability for all aspects of this program. In our area the day camp is organized by- and run by- volunteers. The DE is involved but mostly to find the volunteers and sort of look over the program. We usually have a really great program but, then, we have a really great natural setting for it. The best solution I have to suggest is for you to go to the DE and volunteer your efforts to improve the experience...which, compared to what we have for about the same money, sounds like it could stand some improvement. Did your son have fun?

Oh that's ok, I was asking in general but it could also be interpreted as me wondering why I often seem so out of place among the general thought patterns of most people. To me, in order to maintain such a negative view of the motives of other people, the only way I could maintain such a view is to have much darkness in my life. I don't automatically assume that other people are uncaring or perhaps harbor sinister motives - in fact my experience has been the opposite. I am wondering why anyone would feel differently unless they have had worse personal experiences than I have had.

If you get one of the better ones, GPS units are fairly accurate today (as you say, if you can get the signals). In the past one of the problems was something called 'multipath' where one or more signals was received from both satellite as well as from a reflection off some nearby structure, thus causing very large errors. We mapped a large reservoir (West Point Lake, for those of us in GA) using a state-of-the-art survey unit and without base station correction it was over a kilometer off. But those were the old days when selective availability was still being applied as well, the best GPS units took two people to carry them around, and it took forever to acquire the satellite signals. But I agree...give me a map and compass and I will never have to worry about good batteries.

Yeah, I have to agree with Bob White. But I am still pleasantly surprised when it works the way it's supposed to. And...I still just LOVE maps. Can't get enough. Perhaps that's the constructive purpose in death, to clear the path of people like me so that the nerds can take over. Edited part: Not that any of you guys ARE nerds...and, ahem, not that there's anything WRONG about being a nerd..sheesh I should just slink away while I still can....(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

"the moral compass is simply look out for No. 1, do whatever feels good and the heck with the other guy." While I do not doubt this to be true for some people, I can't think of a single person in my circle of friends and acquaintances who I believe would practice this approach. Perhaps I'm just lucky but I see most of the people around me in this same light. I feel a very strong sense of community around these parts, heh, heh, even during a heated political season. People genuinely care about other people around here. I'm curious to know what makes someone feel the way described in the quote about people in general.

While I agree with the sentiment that scouting helps prepare young persons to respond and helps give them a sense of duty, I disagree with the premise implied by the title of this topic. It implies that 'we' presently have no 'moral compass', whatever that means, but that 'we' used to at some indefinite time in the past, and that for reasons undisclosed in all the hand-wringing, we are no longer in possession of that so-called 'moral compass'. I respectfully suggest that unless most of the members of this forum do not qualify as being part of the 'we' (just for example, there are plenty of other good people out there), there is plenty of 'moral compass' available. While it is sad, this event is hardly new to human experience (need I mention the story of the good Samaritan?). I know of a similar event over 40 years ago in which a boy who had recently been awarded eagle scout, finishing up driving his afternoon school bus route, saw a nearby single-vehicle accident with lots of people gathered. He went to it and the people (of all ages) were just gawking at the driver who was severely injured and lying unconscious on the shoulder of the road, bleeding from mouth and nose with internal injuries. The scout asked if anyone had called for help, they hadn't. So he told someone who lived nearby to run and make the call. They did. He then asked for blankets to use for first aid (there wasn't much else he could do for those injuries). Other people brought blankets and he stayed with the victim until the ambulance arrived. Then he helped the ambulance person place the victim on a stretcher and then rode in the ambulance to the hospital, holding the victim still as the ambulance lurched over the highway. After they got to the hospital, he hitched his way back home and washed the blood off before supper late that night. Those people who were gawking were doing nothing because they had no idea what to do, or were simply stunned by the spectacle. They weren't bad or immoral people. As soon as the scout told them what to do they quickly responded. Leadership is also needed in these situations, even if in a lonely rural setting. But the general public, I think, are well-meaning, most of them. They just aren't necessarily prepared.

Beavah, I would agree but remember these are cubs...meaning (as I remember well) sometimes the parents express concerns that are more related to their own interests and just express it in terms of the boys. The parents are likely to be there because it's a cub scout activity. And there is the possibility that there really is a legitimate medical issue of which we're not aware. Of course you might be right, it's just a case of overprotective parents. Either way, you can't exclude them.

I remember the cubs well as both den leader and cubmaster. I loved the cubs, still do. I'd go back to the cubs if I was needed. I do understand the need the accomodate the parents' concerns. And as long as the boys are having fun, all is well. Have a great outing.

Yeah, I can remember recently some 115 degree days in California that were very interesting. But the low humidity offers some relief assuming you are hydrated enough to sweat. High temperatures AND high humidity can be cause for extra care. Like Gold Winger says, stay hydrated, but there are other things you can do as well. Make sure they have hats and sunscreen. Let them shuck off the shirts...shoes too if it's safe enough. If water is readily available, use it as part of the activities. Make sure the boys are wet. Make sure shade is available and make sure that there are periods of rest (read: time for a snack/drink) during which you can monitor their status. And most of all watch each one of them because they will have individual responses. But cancel the activity? We've never done it for that reason. Edited Part: Just noticed you're in northern VA. We're about 200 miles south of you and in the worst heat, we just seek greater altitude and cool mountain streams. You can do the same thing.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

That's the way I understand it as well. When I see a boy engaging in some kind of risky behavior, I first confront him with the fact that we live in a community in which no matter what he does, where he does it, or when he does it, someone will be watching. I can depend on this cooling his jets for about an hour to a day. If I let him know that I'm honor bound to mention it to his mom next time I see her, I might get another day out of it. Sometimes we have to accept that they're all candidates for the Darwin award. Back in the old days, when there were still distributors and rotors...oh well.