bbng

Michelle, try making a call to the training chair in your district. Let him/her know that your pack would like to have some den chiefs and that you also know of boys who would like the training. One thing that I learned about this area is that courses tend to have low turnout. However, if one or more people at the unit level begin to ask for this, that is when a training that might otherwise not be held can be put together. If not the training, the interest at least is made known.

(This message has been edited by bbng)

Den chief is an excellent opportunity for the Scout and for the Cubs. There are pros and cons, though mostly pros. I've not met many SMs who are in support of den chiefs, though I honestly do not know why. Those who are in support of them, though, are very much so in support of them, and they have troops with the most trained and active den chiefs. Let me get some negatives out of the way first: if a leader does not want help, the Scout will not have a good experience (not all den leaders want help). If a Scout is still close in age to the Cubs and knows them, that could be a negative, but don't underestimate a Scout according to age or rank. Also, some parents and even den leaders end up asking or telling the den chief to handle discipline issues; that is NOT the place of a den chief. He is there to help the den leaders, not to take the place of an adult. Now, for the positives. When a Scout has the chance to serve as den chief, even young and not yet First Class, he has the opportunity to grow in confidence. He will be challenged, but he will be looked up to as well, and the Cubs just love having the older boys to look up to. He may want to "play" too, which is fine, but he must be encouraged to be a leader, and with encouragement, a boy who has even a little desire to do this will end up a wonderful asset. He will help the boys to be more excited about Boy Scouts, he will lighten the load the den leader carries, he will add the fun that only another a youth can add, he will have a fresh perspective and can do what the den leader can't--make Boy Scouting come alive to the Cubs. No matter how a good a den leader is, the Boy Scout is actually living out the scouting experience now, so who better to pass it on? My experience has been an interesting one. I have worked with some den chiefs and come to know them. Some are very motivated to advance; most that I know though are simply looking for ways to serve and this is the place they have found works best for them. Den chiefs are good for packs; if you have an opportunity to have one or more, encourage and support them, know how to use them, and GO FOR IT.

I have learned that up to 3 background checks per year have been made on me in just the past few years as each time a transfer is made or a change in position takes place, a new app is needed. So, the background checks are being made and have, as Neil pointed out, been done so for some time now. I would avoid discussing this person with the committee or other leaders; it is simply gossip at that point, though I understand that this is not your intent.

I placed an order using the Scout Stuff online store, and the first try was unsuccessful (some sort of error), so I e-mailed customer service. I received a fast response, the problem was fixed, and the order placed all within 24 hours. 3 days later I had my order. I would order online again and just wanted to report on the good service.

Some news articles are now in print about Jamboree in many states; I put links to a few below.

http://www.canoncitydailyrecord.com/community/community-story.asp?ID=1056

http://www.picayuneitem.com/articles/2005/08/10/lifestyles/01boyscout.txt

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/local/12349613.htm

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/news/local/12343413.htm

http://www.dicksonherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050810/MTCN0203/308100058/1300/MTCN02

I enjoy reading the editorials and articles about the Jamboree. Scouts from the troop my sons are in submitted an article; it will take 2-4 weeks to be printed so I suspect we'll see more and more of the Scouts' news now.

I see that you're in PA. Have you looked into the high-adventure camps offered by Cradle of Liberty Council? They are online at:

http://www.doubleknot.com/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?LinkKey=2350&orgkey=541

I know of troops in PA that go to Philmont and Sea Base. Also, in the mountain regions of PA, there are whitewater rafting opportunities, canoing, and backpacking.

That's super! This is one of those things that demonstrates a good program to me; the Scouts remember and come back. My sons are in a troop in which this often happens. COHs are held on the same night as troop meetings; in fact, only camping trips are held on other than the troop meeting night. The SM and SAs have been around long enough that one will recognize a visitor, and the visiting Scout is always welcomed before the troop. I'm personally very impressed by that, and I'm glad you had that experience.

"(and I personally don't think a Scout is a Scout only during specific hours)."

All members of the Boy Scout of America means adults too. I take it that you neither smoke or drink even outside of scouting activities?

Does that matter? What I posted was one paragraph taken from the Youth Protection that relates to youth behavior and posted it to help give the BSA perspective rather than opinion only. My opinion that Scouting isn't just during Scouting hours stands, but isn't the goal to teach good citizenship and character and fitness? Wouldn't that include at least having a conversation with this Scout and his parents about the BSA's goal in relation to this issue? This is a youth--not an adult--who according to these posts is drinking underage, and there is an opportunity for him to be warned of the consequences and perhaps avoid a tragic accident/mistake down the road. IN dealing with this, my concern is one that you have nailed: this one Scout seems to be singled out because he is going for Eagle. Is there a legitimate concern? I think so from what is posted, but I do not think this should be handled in a public way and have stated that. To ignore this does the Scout a disservice (sp?). And the talk, quite frankly, must stop. A community and/or troop discussion about a Scout, even without naming him, will do more harm than good; a discussion with the Scout motivated by concern for HIM may be all he needs to think twice about the next time he wants a beer.

p.s. For the record, I find that the Scout Law is a good way to live life, and I believe that if I'm going to be a leader in the BSA then I'm going to do my best to live it and not just talk it.(This message has been edited by bbng)

Directly from YP Training:

Youth Member Responsibilities

All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout membership in the unit. Units should consult with the parents of members who fail to meet behavior standards.

Hope that helps to give a perspective on alcohol in Scouts (and I personally don't think a Scout is a Scout only during specific hours).

OGE, it sure does apply to leaders, though the reporting requirements varies from state to state.

T216, I'm not sure I'd bring this up at roundtable; please use caution when discussing this Scout. Perhaps you could ask the RT commissioner to work something relating to alcohol use into RT, for you are surely not the only SM to be confronted with this. What you might find helpful is the YP reporting guidelines. They are online, if not through your council, then through national council's site: www.scouting.org .

Edit: Sorry about that--the YP is not online for reference any longer, only the entire training after logging in. What I was hoping to link you to was the list of states and their reporting requirements, which is an excellent resource that is now gone. Your council will have this though.(This message has been edited by bbng)

Something from these pages on national's site might help:

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-075/index.html

http://www.scouting.org/activities/highadventure/index.html

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/directory/index.html

I thought the definition provided in Language of Scouting sounded rather dull, and your post seems to indicate that you may be trying to make a pitch for it, so that's why I added the links above. I tend to think of high adventure as the more challenging activities and trips planned out by Boys Scouts as they grow in skills and maturity.

I am so saddened for the family, troop, and surgeon who tried so hard. Ronvo, you are right, it's unbelievable that this has happened again, and there's no blame to place, just such sadness that another Scout is lost.

I just got a note from one of the families in this troop, and the Scouts just returned this afternoon and are now catching up on family time and sleep. They promised me an update soon, and I'd love to hear what our forum members who went thought of Jamboree. Please post when you can.

Michelle, my son was very afraid of the water until he became a Boy Scout. Once a Scout, he learned that many activities included water, and that meant learning to swim. It was a huge accomplishment for him to learn enough swimming to earn Second Class. It has been a hard road to learn, and to overcome fears associated with learning, the swimming skills needed for First Class. I am not sure how long it will take, but I am certain he will make it, and for him the measure of success is two-fold: he has earned a rank that he wants and has also overcome a personal fear.

The thought that came immediately to my mind was: the most important rank to achieve is the one that the Scout sets a goal to earn. Why? Because he has then set and met a goal, learned how to do so, and most likely will continue to do so once he realizes he can do it.

And I'd like to be the second to say thank you, and I agree with Jerry. First thing I thought of as I read through your post was to take a deep breath My condolences on the passing of the den leader.

Are you registered as DL or MC? If not registered, be sure to become registered, something your CC can help with and in the hurry and possibly emotional time may not have thought of.

I've not heard of cub express either. However, the handbook for the den you work with is the first thing I'd read to get a feel for what it is. Fast start for all Cub Scouter positions is online at:

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/faststart/

This is short and gives an overview of the different positions. It should not take the place of training sessions, but it's a good start.

Ask your committee if they have a copy of the Cub Scout Leader Handbook that you may borror. That saves you money but provided an excellent resource to supplement the Cubs' handbook and training.

The Cub Scout Program Helps provide den meeting plans. You add time, ingredients, and enthusiasm, and you save big time on trying to figure out a plan. This book costs less than $4. You do not have to use it all, but you will find that even if your pack does not use themes (not all do) that the items provided eliminate the stress of trying to plan out meetings as well as figure out what might be age appropriate.

A word of caution about crafts: keep them fun and don't focus on that more than other items. As Jerry suggests, use others to help out--maybe in areas you don't feel so comfortable in. For me it was games; I delegated that to a parent who loved leading them. This holds true for any area; I knew of a den that was led by someone who loved to build. Though you'd think the boys would love to use tools often, they got tired of it, and what used to be fun became a chore. The problem was that it was too much all at once--about 8 weeks straight of building for the entire den meeting time. So just a friendly word of caution in that area.

You'll do fine. The resources help a lot, and keep posting your questions because many here have lots of experience and a desire to help.

edited because I hit a wrong key & posted too soon(This message has been edited by bbng)

Has this actually happened? My immediate thought was that this is an adult error issue, not something the Scout did incorrectly, which to me means that everything possible should be done to protect the interests of the Scout who thought he was doing everything by the book. This is why I personally do all I can to know and use policies as well as encourage others to do so. I'm afraid I can't answer your question, but I'm sure someone here will have more help for you.

Thanks ConnCM. I figured not all would have an opportunity to hear the remarks, so I looked up the transcript too, which is here:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050731/nysu017.html?.v=18

Just in case you were interested -- it's a nice speech so far.

Yes, this is a tragedy, and how saddened I am that so many deaths have taken place in such a short time. One thing said of this particular incident is that the Scouts and Scouters did just what they should have done in this incident (I don't have the url handy, but this was a quote within articles). As for Jamboree, I read the profiles provided in one article; these Scouters were all devoted to Scouting and had a great deal of experience in outdoors and camping. It is a sad week for Scouting, and I agree that a review of safety practices may be in order, but the thought also came to mind of how many times Scouts and Scouters go on camping and high-adventure trips without incident (something that is not being reported, though it may not be the time, as right now the families and troops need our sympathy and compassion not judgement).

Thank you for passing this on.

Thank you for sharing your reasons. It's good to hear from a Scout what his goals are and the reasons for them. I commend you for setting a goal that you have clearly thought through and wish you well as you continue to follow the trail.

One thing that hasn't yet been touched on is that each boy is very different in his abilities, motivations, interests. Some need to be pushed all the way for the badge alone; others just are ready to go for it all--every possible item they can get. It seems to me that more need a little nudge, but there are those (we have one) who just go for it all without any nudging at all.

Also, the family is supposed to be involved with Cubs. That means it is possible for a boy to advance without being at all, or even most, meetings.

I did a double-take at 28 field trips. That is something that I've not yet come across, and it seems, by comparison, too many (how DID you do that? And, was it fun for all? It seems an awfully big task. This isn't a judgement, but I'd love to hear more.)

I recently learned that one of sons was not believed, though we had signed the paperwork and he had received the belt loop. Instead of asking us about it, it was just given to him, but the leaders had discussed that he sure didn't earn it. Our son has friends in various countries, and he had taken a foreign language early on, plus had done some special projects relating to this--during the year he earned the belt loop. What he had done was not the norm; therefore it was suspect. I was hot when I heard this! I was told how everyone was surprised that I'd do something like this when I was normally so honest.

My caution would be to tread lightly in this area. Maybe, just maybe, he did do all those belt loops. Could it be that he is using school and family activities and just naturally moving through these with relative ease? Could it be a misunderstanding on his or his family's part? As for those who get upset that he has so many, I'd encourage using this as a teaching moment. We just don't always know what one is capable of or doing, and sometimes we are suprised at that one's accomplishments. Sometimes we know that something is given to someone without their earning it, and it makes us wonder why we bother to work so hard...but that applies to pretty much every area of life. It is how we respond to the surprises, the unfairness, the uncertainties of life that is the single most important thing at issue.

How did I handle this? It happened in a unit I served in. I asked the CC to put in on the agenda; we had a training time to review advancement (purpose of, how to, challenges), and then the DLs took that info back into their dens and communicated elements of it to all den families. The result? No change in some families, in others the boys actually came to the leaders saying they weren't so sure they had earned what they had. I personally was most impressed when the boys learned and began to think through the importance of earning something rather than just receiving it. And that is what Cubs is all about to me; the rest is icing on the cake

Good luck.

http://www.unamilodge.org/index.shtml

According to the site, link above, the celebration is still on.

The BSA has a resource that helps to answer this, and as far as the name goes, this comes directly from that resource:

Boy Scouts of America

The legal name of the organization is singular. Example: "In 2010 the Boy Scouts of America will celebrate its 100th anniversary." The abbreviation is BSA (without periods) and is used with the article ("the BSA") when used as a noun. See "National Council" and "national office."

The resources is The Language of Scouting:

http://www.scouting.org/identity/los/index.html