bbng

Carole,

Please clarify. You are getting awards but don't know if you had a budget? This is a bad situation, and you need to call the treasurer immediately to get a check to cover the costs. You should never front the money. Now, I say that, but I've done it, and nothing good came of it other than the boys received their awards.

Also, as for deadlines, I've been there too. If the den leaders do not let you know ON TIME, do not buy the awards. It hurts, it is SO tempting to want to this, but do not do it. Tell them that if they stop by for an advancement form, you'll have it taped to your door if you're not home.

Anything outside of what you agreed to needs to be given back to whoever gave it to you. If you volunteered for a specific thing to do, then that is what you do unless YOU choose otherwise. It's really quite simple to end up being taken advantage of, particularly when we know how much those boys look forward to awards.

Good luck, and please don't let anyone take advantage of you. You could come to resent Cub Scouting, and that would be a sad thing indeed.

Excellent idea anarchist. Another resource may be merit badge counselors as well. I'd assumed that the boys would be doing this, but I wonder if they had any input in this originally?

Going by your profile, I did a quick search of some of my favorite online sources but chose the Illinois offices where available. I would encourage you to see if you can have someone with experience help out; field guides are excellent but personal help from an expert is far more helpful.

http://dnr.state.il.us/ (Be sure to check the links, particularly to conservation & forestry.)

http://www.enature.com/fieldguides/ (Choose bird, tree, mammal, etc and enter your zip code to get a field guide specific to your area.)

http://www.il.nrcs.usda.gov/ (The Illinois Native Plant Guide looks particularly helpful.)

Hope this helps! Let us know how it goes please. My favorite trail maps are those that identify wildlife, so I think this is a great project and wish you well with it.

I read that a day or so ago, and what a fantastic story! I'm so glad to see Scouts lending a hand, and I hope to see more of that and to become part of it in some way. That link should be checked pretty frequently as more stories are being added to it. OXCOPS, thanks for sharing this.

Cindy, welcome!

Webelos is actually an 18-month program, and the first-year or fourth-grade Webelos are often referred to as Webelos I and the second-year or fifth-grade Webelos as Webelos II. There is one Webelos handbook, and in a nutshell, if a boy is new to Cub Scouts as a Webelos, the very first thing he needs to do is earn Bobcat. Then he may work on activity badges, which are detailed in the handbook. I'm assuming that you are referring to a fifth-grade Webelos? If so, if he has a goal of earning Arrow of Light, those requirements are also in the handbook. The next step in Scouting would be for him to join a Boy Scout Troop.

Are you a den leader or other adult leader? Or are you a parent trying to help your son? More questions from you would help us to guide you. Webelos is a lot of fun, my favorite year of Cub Scouting, and many here will have help and ideas for you.

I had an interesting discussion with my own son recently, not due to this thread, but I was surprised at his "take" on Scouting. He has not quit, nor is he interested in quitting. However, when I asked him if he was going to invite his best friend to come out to a troop camping trip or meeting (they've been trying to get together, but the troop is busy, and this seemed a win-win situation), he said he won't ask him because he knows he won't like Scouts. When I picked my jaw back up off the floor, I asked him if he would mind telling me his reason. He said his friend wouldn't want to wear a uniform and do all that memory work. I asked about the memory work, and he said the Scout Oath and Law, but also the first aid and knots and other things that need to be remembered. What suprised me is that he has done these things with relative ease, the troop is boy-led so the boys teach other boys, and there is weekly program that keeps skills fresh through games and contests and things he has called fun. So, I asked him if he was unhappy with Scouting. His answer was that no, he loves the troop, thinks the leaders and other Scouts and troop meetings are fun, that the camping trips are the best, but that the uniform and the BORs would keep him from asking a friend out. I asked about the SM conference and was pleased to hear he liked that. In fact, it is one of things he likes best--right up there with camping. He knows plenty of boys he could invite to the troop, but he won't do it. Is his attitude wrong? Quite frankly, I think it is in part, but I also learn from his approach, for I don't mind the uniform or the so-called memory work, but I am an adult and need to know what appeals to the Scouts. Oh, and for the record, he does wear his uniform; his troop all wear the uniform. However, he doesn't like to. He does it because he wants to stay in the troop and he realizes that this is part of it. Anyway, for what it's worth, I thought I'd toss a log on the fire and share how one boy who loves Scouts and his troop isn't wild about certain elements, and that will have a part in whether he recruits or not.

Thanks FScouter, and I agree that though good and helpful, often private sites do have outdated info. Those ScoutNut listed are current, and after a trip to council, I'm now in possession of all the current information. The DE was not in, but the office manager was a wonderful help and not only got the info, but also filled me in on other changes/information that will be very helpful this year.

Thank you ScoutNut. The new den leader kit given to me by the DE contains items dated 2004, so I've dropped him a line to see if he can supply the newer items.

I have several Cub Scouting publications that were recently received from council. However, they are dated last year. Can anyone tell me if the following items have been updated and/or if there is an easy way to check on this myself?

Cub Scout Program Helps For New Den and Pack Leaders, Fall 2004 (this is definitely not helpful in respect to promoting themes)

Outdoor Program Guidelines for 2004

I have not yet seen Character Connections, the spread sheet that was released last year (it seemed new anyway), and the council service centers do not carry the Boys' Life calendar. Can anyone guide me in getting these please?

Thank you!

Scouting Magazine came today; no Boys' Life yet but the magazines usually arrive close together if not on the same day.

This troop happens to be near courses that are already in place. One is a day trip; others are used when the troop goes camping.

Trail Pounder, what an excellent story! Thank you so much for sharing it, and I look forward to hearing updates.

It seems to me that one is not acting Scout-like when tallying up what another says, assigning worth or lack of worth to it, and even judging when another is deserving of a response. To do that privately seems rather arrogant, but to do it publicly is unkind, particularly when any person visiting can see other posts and judge their merit on their own. It is not possible to correctly judge another's motives or depth of commitment. It may be possible to make assumptions, but assumptions tend to land one in hot water. Scout-like behavior is the willingness to listen to, try to understand, and then respond--even repeatedly--to another who is asking a question and looking for information. Scout-like behavior is the ability to disagree without attacking another person.

Bob, I hope I'm misunderstanding this. Am I reading that when a poster here is offensive (not courteous, kind, etc) that is ok to be offensive in return? If that is what you are saying, and that is how I read it, then I disagree and believe that the Scout Law holds me to a higher standard than to simply strike back. I am loyal not only to the BSA but also to individual fellow Scouters. My fellow Scouters deserve my loyalty because we made the same commitment, though I often am frustrated that there are those who don't use available and necessary resources. As for those who come here simply to post against the BSA, I owe them no loyalty, but I will take the opportunity to live out what I claim to live--to treat others according to the Scout Law even when they don't treat me or the BSA in general according to the Scout Law. I can, have, and will continue to defend the BSA because I believe in it. I have and will continue to be outspoken on behalf of the BSA, and I will do so in a positive manner. Anyone can take a shot back at someone, anyone can complain, but there is a better way in my opinion. It is to focus on what is good, what is right, what makes it worth being part of and supportive of the BSA rather than complaining about those who don't do the same.

As for defending someone who is in harm's way or defending against an intruder, of course I would take action...and without apology. I just don't see that posts on public forums about whether has taken training or not or those that are political or policy issues can be equated with protecting my family, friends, and home, nor do I see how pointing out to others on the forum who is not trained or who doesn't practice what s(he) has learned is beneficial or how someone is just making an attack. It strikes me as mean-spirited rather than helpful, whereas the example of protecting family, friends, and home seems to be a loving response.

I can cannot ignore the attack and be scoutlike, I cannot challenge the attacker and be scoutlike. Given the choice I will choose to defend and support the BSA and its programs.

If I follow you, ignoring an attack on the BSA would not be considered Scout-like. Likewise, challenging an attacker of the BSA would not be Scout-like. Please correct me if I misunderstand.

You see, I agree that ignoring an attack on the BSA is not always an option. I say not always because there are times when it does seem best to ignore something posted online, though that is a judgement call and will vary from person to person.

However, I would disagree that challenging an attacker is not Scout-like. It is possible to disagree, to correct, or even to rebuke what someone has said without attacking the person. Courtesy and kindness would seem to indicate that we treat others with respect even when we don't think they deserve it (ie judging a person's ability to understand may lead to thinking they don't deserve an answer, and I cannot, by posts alone, determine that ability) and instead go after the issue.

My opinion, in a nutshell, is that when another's character is called into question or another is publicly ridiculed or brushed off as not worth bothering to answer, then the behavior is not Scout-like.(This message has been edited by bbng)

First, in response to the post that started all this, I personally do not believe that the BSA promotes creationism or that it necessarily should. It does promote respect for creation; think Leave No Trace, Outdoor Code, and various merit badges that support respect for the environment.

Now, I happen to be what is called a creationist, though I don't care much for labels as they tend to be so limiting. At the same time, I have tremendous respect for science and actually think that the more I learn of science, the more I see how it "fits" with my faith. There is still much to learn, and I am not a scientist, but I honestly don't see how creationism and science work against one another though I can how they might be percieved to do just that. I've put a link below to a site, that though I don't agree with all of it because I haven't yet read all of it, does a pretty good job of explaining how creationism and science do go together.

As for being created in God's image. To me, nothing could be more special than knowing that God himself created me to be like him. I don't believe that is in respect to appearance but rather to character traits and what it is that makes a person who he is inside and not what he looks like. I can look up my notes, but I once studied this using scripture and word studies, but quite frankly, we all know that one who believes believes, and one who doesn't doesn't, and I prefer not to try to persuade. Perhaps just give a different perspective. It is humbling to me to believe that God made himself known to me through the written word. I'm a simple person, full of flaws, and I have often wondered why God would bother with me. Yet, he does. The God I know is one who desires a relationship with those he has made in his image, and that is why the bible is so important. Does he chuckle? Yeah, probably, and at me most likely quite frequently. Yet he also loves me with a love that I admit I cannot comprehend fully.

As I have much yet to learn about science, I've much to learn about God's character. The more I learn of each, the stronger my faith is. That is why I couldn't resist joining this thread. Somehow science versus creationism just puzzles me, for in my mind, there's no competition.

Interesting discussion. And here's the link I mentioned above:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v22/i1/creation.asp

Good grief. The site has changed, and unlike the national web site, which does not provide e-mail addresses, the online store does so. The site did have errors, including the class A error mentioned, and the webmaster and customer service are working to fix the problems. I know because I was in touch with the online store shortly after it opened. For those who have not yet used it, the customer service is excellent, and the order was easy to place and arrived quickly.

It can be worn as soon as it is earned. See the uniform inspection sheet that National has online, for it shows the placement of the Arrow of Light insignia on the Webelos shirt:

http://www.scouting.org/forms/34282.pdf

The Arrow of Light insignia is the only Cub Scout insignia that may remain on the uniform once a boy joins a troop. It is not an item that may not be worn until then. Perhaps there was some confusion in that explanation.

This is a toughie, in big part because it simply is not your call to make. You have explained to the dad what happened with the meds and what the boy was like off them; you then learned that the mom and dad have very different ideas of what it is needed by their son. That is not a good place to be for you, so don't get into that one. However, you do have something to talk to them about. Leave the meds and what you saw in him at camp out of this, but ask if you can meet with them to talk about their son. Explain how you see great potential in him and ask if they can help you with some tips on how to keep him focuses and to motivate him to become more independent. This puts the concern before them without being at all judgemental about his meds, and it also alerts to them to something they may not know--just how very hard it is for him to focus NOW. Good luck, and I commend you for being careful but advise caution in this.

I thought the footwear used to be addressed more specifically, but I just checked all uniform inspection sheets. For Cubs, Scouts, and male leaders, all that is listed is "Leather or canvas, neat and clean". For female leaders, it is simply "leader option". I'd agree that the footwear should fit the activity combined with the description above.

I've been hoping someone would have an answer to this question. I looked up the uniform inspection sheets and there doesn't seem to be a place to put the National Summertime Award for those how have both it and th Cub Scout Outdoor Award. However, until it becomes official, I think I'd go with putting the pin as close to where it should be as possible--even if now where the Uniform Insignia suggests as this just isn't addressed. Good question. I'll run it by the Scout shop next time I'm there; they have been helpful when new items are introduced.

You've asked a good question. The colors do not need to be worn all the time. In fact, since they are pinned on, they can be pulled off or lose a backing (had that happen to my own son). Also, some boys complain that the colors can feel uncomfortable. The recommendation was made to the unit I was with to consider wearing the Webelos colors for pack meetings and special events, but perhaps to forego wearing them at all den meetings or to camp.

http://usscouts.org/scoutduty/sd2gc_toc.html

http://usscouts.org/usscouts/reverent.asp

See the topic reverent, and you should find some prayers that "fit" your troop. Hope this helps.

I'm not aware of a swimming program in our sons' troop; however, there are many opportunities for scuba throughout the year. Also, any boy who expresses interest or difficulty with swimming will receive help from many strong swimmers in the troop, both youth and adult.

Another troop I'm aquainted with has an annual swim night, and the focus of that night is to provide for the swim test. The other planned time to take the swim test in that troop is at summer camp.

Yet another troop that I'm aquainted with requires every Scout to earn the swimming MB when attending summer camp for the first time. Though I am not in favor of this, and though it is met with objections, once the boys earn this MB they tend to get more involved in other water-related activities.

Are you considering a public web site, or would this be an e-mail loop type of set up? For a public site with unit info, the big drawback is pop-up ads and news on the site. In other words, the content is not just made up of what the webmaster puts on the site, and there is no control over what else is there. For an e-mail loop type set up, this might work well. It is easy to use, but I've set these up, and there are people who just can't seem to "get it" when it comes to signing up on these. The key is to identify why you want this site, who the audience will be, and does it protect it the unit while providing the kind of info you want to share.