Oldscout448

There is a long thread on this very topic that I started in October of 2013. I think the title was  "Can a SM ban OA elections?" The short answer is he has three options.  1. Change the Scoutmasters mind.  2. Get the CoR to overrule the Committee and SM.  3 Change troops.

My son and friends ended up with option #3 after trying their best at #1 and #2.  

Should be a wonderful memory for you both!  I'm glad that somewhere ordeals are happening again.  

I'm planning a trip to Glacier with ex scoutson #1 and his family. Seeing that he now hikes faster than I do and I'm told cell phones are mostly useless up there, any body have a recommendation for communication over 2-3 miles?  I've been looking at radios and after watching a dozen YouTube vids, I'm pretty thoroughly confused.

and the s'mores are non fattening !

What fred8033 said! 

It's the outdoors,the memories ,and the friendships that matter in the end. Don't let a little tin god with delusions of his own importance taint the good that Scouting was.  

It's hard. I know it is. My Eagle sons are in their mid twenties and thirties now and I'm still working on letting it all go. Going hiking with my grandchildren helps a lot.

On 4/22/2021 at 9:36 PM, mrjohns2 said:

Wow. What state? We only canceled the spring ordeal. Summer callouts and the fall were modified. As is tomorrow's fellowship weekend. I feel pretty lucky.

Maryland. NCAC. We were permitted to hold ordeals last fall under very stringent restrictions, I suspect it was the lodge executive committee trying to make sure no ordeals were held without actually looking like they were banning them.  To the best of my knowledge only one chapter managed to hold one. There were zero cases of Covid transmission. Regardless we are now under an outright ban on any type of physical meeting. 

I should be starting the regalia packing process this evening, so I can get the first load up to the Ordeal grounds by 9:00am tomorrow.  But like last year there is no Ordeal this spring. t's a weird feeling, having nothing to do.  I've been to 38 or 39 ordeals in the 46 years I've been a member. Fingers crossed for next year.

13 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

That's why there is a section on the AHMR which says "Adults NOT Authorized to Take Youth to and From Events"

The burden is on the parents/guardians to inform the unit.  It would have never held up in court

What you say concerning the AHMR is true and your probably correct about the legal aspect as well. But if the crying mother insisted that she told you before the meeting started, and her only kid is missing, that's not a case I would like to set before a jury.  To say nothing of the cost of legal counsel.

8 hours ago, David CO said:

When it gets to that point, perhaps we should just close it all down and finally admit we can't do scouting anymore.  

Yah hmmm, it could be quite useful to have a instantly updated list of who is authorized to pick up the scouts.  Case in point, about a dozen years ago one of our scouts was picked up by his dad right after the meeting as he had done many times before.  The scouters never gave it a second thought although the scouts mother had dropped him off. Mom arrived 5-10 minutes later and went absolutely berserk. Seems there had been an  ugly event in the last week involving alcohol, threats, maybe more.  Police had been called, restraining orders issued.

Mom called police and her lawyer threatened to  sue us, BSA, the CO.  Anyone and everyone. About 10  minutes (seemed like eternities)  later the scout called from home. Dad had just wanted to explain why he had to go away for a while to get his life straight again.  Scout cried, dad cried. Then dropped him off at home and drove away.

But could have ended much differently.  Still gives me the shivers sometimes, when I read about a deranged parent who killed his/her kids then themselves.
  
 

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Regarding old uniforms, if the shirt you have all the knots on predates the new requirement, it's is legit

 

Thank goodness!  I have a good friend who has nearly 70 years in scouting. Hasn't missed a national Jambo since 1950 something.  He wears 21 knots on his shirt. He has more at home in a box.  I would not like to be the patch policeman who tried to correct him.  Might be entertaining to watch from a safe distance though.

21 hours ago, ParkMan said:

That was an awful answer.

1. That "girls mature faster than boys" and "we don't want to disadvantage the boys" is the reason, that's an offensive and insulting reason.  

It may well be offense and insulting to someone. But it's also true. 

7 hours ago, MattR said:

Welcome to the forum, @SilverPalm.

I made my scouts dance for lost items. Honestly, I got tired of picking up their stuff all the time. But, whenever a shy scout had to dance it was known among all of the older scouts to dance along with him. It worked. Soon the shy scouts realized it was nothing to be afraid of. A couple of times I had to dance as well. The scouts loved that. It all depends on the attitude, not the task at hand.

I had to be very careful not to misplace anything on a campout or a scout would gleefully pounce on it and scurry back to his patrol where he would be greeted with great rejoicing.  Then usually at dinner I would be approached by the PL saying " Mr. Old scout, I believe we have something of yours that requires a song.". Naturally the whole troop having been clandestinely informed this was coming would be dropping whatever they were doing to watch me sing I'm a Little Teapot.  

There was of course one adult who told me that I shouldn't do such things or the boys wouldn't respect me.  He seemed confused when I told him that not playing by the same rules as the scouts would loose their respect a great deal faster.  

Sorry to go off topic for a moment, but this thread is  the most depressing one I've ever read on this forum.  And the longest

14 hours ago, David CO said:

Yes we are.  I firmly believe that without the lawsuits, or at least the threat of lawsuits, the executives would not have taken any action to end the child sexual abuse in BSA.  They only care about money.  

All current scouts benefit from these lawsuits.  The lawsuits make them safer.  Future generations of scouts will be safer because of these lawsuits.

 

Safer?   Yeah I guess so.  Since it looks like the majority of camps will cease to exist,  troops will fold left and right,so the ex-scouts can safely stay in their basement playing WoW.  

Honest question, do you really think there will be 'future generations of scouts'?

1 hour ago, 1980Scouter said:

I have been following this discussion and the news coverage very closely on this issue. I feel that the victims should be compensated fairly.  $50-60,000 should be a minimum. If it takes total liquidation of the BSA so be it.

My income has dropped by about half during  thrse past 12 months of shutdowns. I could certainly use an extra. $50-$60 K.  Or even $6 K. But as I have said on previous posts, I can not see any justice in depriving a million or more Scouts of their summer camps because a long dead Scoutmaster didn't deserve the name.  I have no wish to expound on the various  punishments that I think would be appropriate for these predators. But stealing from the scouts isn't fair or just. It may  indeed be legal, but it still ain't right

" Attentiveness to the needs of others is the hallmark of a Vigil"  What I look for is someone who actively looks for things that need to be done and humbly does them. Even better he gets others to help and inspires them by working the hardest. Or putting in the most hours.  

It can be something as small as noticing that no one has built the campfire at a camporee, and skipping some free time to build it. Or as large as putting together a select team of very experienced campers to go camping with the new scout troops in the council.  

I had one scout who was given the Vigil honor the first time he was eligible. Why? It wasn't so much that he served on the ceremony team, and the election team or even that he was a 3 time elongomat as well as an SPL.  It was that as a 17 year old Eagle he asked to be a denchief for a fifth time because he truly wanted to help the Cubs learn about Scouting.

1 hour ago, karunamom3 said:

 

Geeze, we can just simply go camping as a group of friends, not under the auspices of the BSA, and none of this would be an issue. I hate to think that way because I love scouts. 

 

Which sadly is exactly where a lot of my scouting friends and I have ended up.  

I sit at the Campfire alone now, my companions now sadly departed. Yet I remember their names, as I gaze in the flames. How young we all were when we started.

We were promised adventure in Scouting, if we followed it's long Rugged Road. So we hoisted our packs, grabbed a dull ax, and as we hiked we learned the Scout Code.

Young friendships were forged as we camped in the woods, learning of bears,trees and stars.  We drove the older scouts near mad with our questions, " Is that the North star or Mars?"

We wore our new patches so proudly, Tenderfoot,  First Class and Star.                Then Eagle, Philmont,  an Arrowmans sash were the symbols that we had come far.

Yet it wasn't the badges that mattered, it was how earning them had changed us inside.  Even without one we knew we had done well, and walked with a little more pride.

Then to our surprise there were green bars on our sleeves, always thought them quite out of reach. The Scoutmaster told us that we were in charge, as we learned how to lead and to teach.

The faded patches now hang on the wall my old handbooks all packed in a chest. I follow still adventures trail, but Scouting took a hard left.

So let us gather one last time if only in mind, where we once camped in sunshine and frost. To raise a last glass to the scouts o' the past and shed a tear for what is now lost.

Yet I have kept my honour bright. I can guiltless sleep tonight. Still true to the Oath and Law shall I be. Though none seem to care save me.

I hike in the woods by myself now, and reminisce by the embers alone.  There is no one now left to share tale or jest.  For all my companions are gone.

Oooh, a real Lion patch!  I remember seeing the oldest coolest cubs wearing them at my first pack meeting.  I promised myself that I'd earn one someday, but they were phased out when I was working on my bear. 

On 12/5/2020 at 8:52 PM, CynicalScouter said:

Thanks. This is all happy talk PR.

We've gotten infinitely more information from leaked documents/slides than anything. Which is sad.

"Happy talk PR." Hmm,  I tend to use another word for it.  Considerably more accurate but perhaps not suited for a scout forum 

The only way to end this menace is to cast the swallow into the fires of Mount Doom where it was forged. 

Hatched

Whatever

15 minutes ago, David CO said:

Is that an African swallow or a European swallow?

If it weighs the same as a duck...

6 minutes ago, yknot said:

 Just make sure you understand that you are not simply being a rebel and following the "old" ways but that you are possibly exposing yourself to enhanced liability. 

 

Which is why a lot of  Scouters with 20-30 years in the program have decided that it's just not worth it, and sadly walked away.

A success?  Well mostly. The modifications worked pretty well although the candidates stepping forward one at a time, quietly giving the admonition to Allowat, and putting on their own sashes took about 30 seconds each. In our rehearsal the "candidates" only took 15. Of course they already knew what to say.  So even though we skipped the song and only demonstrated the handclasp the ceremonies took longer than we planned. In addition the guides leading the first group of candidates somehow took a wrong turn on the trail leading to the circle of our lodge. Which delayed us 15? minutes right from the start.  

Dinner was ready at 6:00,  but the second ceremony didn't end until 6:17 I'm not sure how long it took for the hungry new members to walk to the feast as I stayed at the ring setting up for the Brotherhood ceremony.

The biggest issue turned out to be quite unexpected. We had guessed at 50 candidates divided into two ceremonies so the ring was made big enough to hold 25 candidates in a semicircle so that they all had a clear line of sight of the principals.  We believed this to be critical to allow them to see and hear the gestures and words of the speakers.  

The actual number of candidates however was 72, so the two weekends before the ordeal enlarging the ring to accommodate 36 became a priority.  More cutting, raking, and bench building.

But when the first group of candidates arrived at the ring there were only 31! Which meant that the second ceremony had 41. And THAT meant no matter which way any of the principals faced there was someone who certainly couldn't hear or see him very well.   I don't know why the groups were offset that way. I do know that the ring building crew was simply furious. All that work...And the rope only had 37 loops, six feet apart 

The candidates had been separated into 7 work groups during the day so perhaps it was logistically easier to first send 3 groups, then later 4 groups.  But it certainly makes it much more difficult to convince scouts that the ceremonies are important and deserve excellence  when the "higher ups" clearly demonstrate that they care little and less.

Tired of shoveling water upstream,

Oldscout

If anyone is interested, our ordeal is a go!  Only 10 days away now and it's been an frustrating, exhausting, inspiring, experience trying to get the ceremonies part up and running.  

Our normal camp is off limits now so...

Find a site, clear a ring (BIG fallen trees to move) figure out where the trails go, clear and mark them.  Read all the new safety protocols, come up with some ideas how to implement them. At the first rehearsal realize that half of them aren't going to work.  Back to the drawing board.  Realize the ring isn't big enough to keep everyone apart, enlarge it.  Find out a lot more candidates registered than you guesstimated, enlarge it again.  

All with 75% of the numbers we had pre pandemic.

But some of the scouts are just extraordinary!  They just keep showing up, working like beavers two, three, even four times a week. Sometimes all afternoon sometimes they can only stay for an hour.  Practicing ceremonies after dark. Pushing each other to excel.  I tell you brethren they are a true inspiration!

If scouting is indeed ending, at least around here it's going out on one heck of a high note.

Are there any lodges out there holding any activities this year?