Miki101

Scouting if full of myths. The "campfire ashes" story is probably one but it really does not matter. As a Scouting researcher, I have come across several myths that are perpetuated simply because the facts have never been examined because the stories "could" be regarded as true. It reality, the "ashes" story has nothing to do about honesty. It's all about the power of the yarn, and the picturesqueness of the imagery, and that is all B-P, Seton and Beard. I'm working on another book and came across an interesting Seton quote,"Only the ancient sacred fire of wood has the power to touch

Wisumahi, War Scouting is not peace scouting, although some training techniques are the same. Of your statements, what are your sources? David C. Scott

Unless you are an official BSA supplier, it is highly unlikely that you will ever hear from Boys' Life or Scouting editors about unsolicited manuscripts. Too many liability issues, and that's understandable because the vetting takes place during the rigorous supplier screening process.

"Miki101, if you're so sure you have the right numbers, and if they're so easily available, why do you refuse to post any?" Because they are public numbers and I'm not going to do your homework for you. "Physician, heal thyself." David C. Scott

Well Merl, This really is going nowhere. Let's re-cap... Your assumption that the BSA lost 400,000 scouts from 2004 -2005 is dead wrong...it is less than 80,000. You cite someone (webmaster Dave)with no connection the the National office or any other organization with the figures. Instead there is some fabricated "insider" that feeds him the numbers. Okey Dokey. Now, I'm going to let you in on a little secret...the National office makes public the numbers every quarter. Public as in you or me, but you have to know where they are and how to access them. Now, if your buddy at that

Merl writes: "I'm basing my numbers posted at bsa-discrimination.org; while it's possible they aren't accurate, I think they are." Thanks Merl, that's all that you needed to say. You've been checkmated. David C. Scott

"(1) The source of these numbers is the Population Estimates Program, Population Division, US Census Bureau. As the percentage of girls in Venturers is small, only males (age 5-17) are included in this column. As you can tell, there has been no decline in the overall number of boys available to join BSA from 1995-2002, and the declines in 2003-2004, do not correlate with BSA's declining numbers. The estimate for 2005 has yet to be released." Thanks Merl, Well...I have the correct numbers, so why doesn't your "insider?" Perhaps you should find a different hobby than Scout bashing... PS: I

Tisk Tisk Merlyn, Is that all that you have? No facts but a personal attack? Perhaps you should concentrate on getting your facts straight before spouting off...rather shamful 'Ole Boy. You need a good researcher...by the way, my rates are reasonable. As for you SRBeaver - it goes into the history and the struggle for the soul of the BSA and why it formed the way that it did in 1910. It further examines he social history and motives behind its creation and quotes the words from thousands of documents collected worldwide - Note the Merlyn: these would be documented facts - that tell t

Well Merlyn, I have the numbers at Year End...Shields Press Releasae was done in May. My numbers come from, well,..."inside BSA national." If you want a breakdown, then you can buy my book coming out in spring 2007, tentatively titled THE SCOUTING PARTY. David C. Scott

Oh Merlyn, Your buddy Dave's source could not be very far "inside National" because he admits to not having 2005 numbers. Actually, I have the 2005 numbers and it's less than 80,000 in droppage. Sorry. I'll repeat: Don't believe everything that you read on a canned website. David C. Scott

Actually Merlyn, Your source's numbers are quite off. That is why I said that they were GUESSING. The total Scout decline is less than 80,000 from 2004 to 2005...NOT 400,000. Sorry. You need to know where to look for the correct information. PS: Don't believe everything that you read on somebody's website. David C. Scott

Thanks Merlyn, Now tell me again, if your source document states that the 2005 BSA membership numbers have not been released - how does it actually know know that membership has actually declined by 400,000+. It's a guess isn't it? In fact, don't they make a request at the end of that section for someone to actually give them the actual membership documents because they are actually hypothesizing. Just wondering. David C. Scott

Thanks Rick, The main problem that I have with Jeal is that he leads one down the path of homosexual behavior by Baden-Powell by the sin of omission. Jeal did insufficient research and his "facts" do not pan out. However, I need to get my own facts and examples straight before citing anything further. David C. Scott

Now BrentAllen, Lets not get all emotional. One cannot persuade when this happens. I have gone back and forth with Kudu many times and we do not agree on everything but he has a heck of a knowledge base and you should listen to it more closely than a lot of other ones. That being said, I read that you do not like the Jeal inference that Baden-Powell took the beads off of a dead African girl because you have seen the Dinizulu picture of him wearing the beads. Unfortunately, that was not the only set of them. Dinizulu presented a set to all of his fiercest warriors. Now, having read B

How-how!

Unfortunately for The History Channel: 1. The first installment of SCOUTING FOR BOYS was published on Wednesday January 15, 1908...not the 24th as they state. 2. The serialization finished with installment #6 on March 25th...not the end of April. 3. Baden-Powell took 22 boys to Brownsea...not 21. 4. Baden-Powell and Kenneth McLaren arrived on Brownsea on July 25th but camp did not begin until July 29th...the rest of the boys arrived after July 25th. 5. The Brownsea participants were not "boy scouts" because SCOUTING FOR BOYS was not yet written, they were "participants

PS. Trev, The first official BSA Scoutmaster Certificate (#1) was awarded to YMCA Boys' Work Secretary, M.D. Crackel, of the West Side YMCA of Cleveland making him and the aformentioned YMCA the first SM and troop. David C. Scott

As I recall, The Chief Scout Executive at the time was a good Texan named J.L. "Jack" Tarr and the BSA received a free building and free land. I'd move.

Actually the question of copyright ownership is a good one. Unless Brown & Bigelow has turned copyright over to the BSA, B&B would own those images because they were produced for B&B calendars. When I got permission to use one of those works for a project in my council, I had to get B&B's permission, not BSA's. David C. Scott

The OA did not become an official part of BSA until 1948 because it was somewhat based on the philosophies of Ernest Thompson Seton. Seton was outsted as the BSA's Chief Scout in 1915. Seton's own Woodcraft Indian organization was repugnant to then Chief Scout Executive James West, and he would not allow any form of Indian Lore to be a major part of BSA during his tenure. Although West agreed to let the OA become a "trial" program about 1938, that was about it. He retired in 1946 (Ed Rowan, confirm me on this date)and BSA was integrated into the BSA program 2 years later. I'm sure that th

Hi Trev, I look forward to getting your sourcing! I appreciate your comments on my Mafeking articles in the ISCA Journals. I am finishing my last installment on those collectibles for March and am doing a bigger piece on Seton for the June offering. I hope to raise the awareness for all. David C. Scott

Thanks Judy, My book is in peer review, which has been for the last 6 weeks. Alterations and chapter order are being fiddled with, then off to my agent for placement. Hopefully I'll have it out by October 30, the 100th anniversary of what should be considered the 100th anniversary of the "ligening bolt of inspiration" in the fertile mind of Baden-Powell. Daivd C. Scott

Greetings LongHaul, Unfortunately the minutia of "who was first" etc. can only be found if one is diligently searching BSA's own archives. It is very, very difficult to be approved for research on that facility because there has to be a bonafide reason for letting that person in. I would imagine that some bits of information could be used to cause pain and suffering to the BSA, (especially from the secular movement) and the gatekeepers are very aware of that. The same can be said for getting into the archives of the British Scout Association. I had to be approved by their due d

THE CHIEF by H. Allen Anderson will bring you up to speed on Seton.

At-a-boy Ed, Give Ginger Baker my best... PS: I'm a Beatles man, but I'll forgive you.