Miki101

Burnham III signs the book?...seems normal. Michael BP?...that one surprises me.

OOPS ...typo in my previous post...with the "NOT" in that sentence. Burnham never publicy declared that he was the founder of Scouting...but to be sure, he taught many things to BP but BP made it happen.

This is a rather poor book for the mere fact that author Peter Craigmoe (Van Wyk is the pen name) makes assumptions based upon heresay and doesn't cite any sources outside of stating that he gained access to Burnham's Yale Papers. When the book came out, I contacted Craigmoe for his lack of sourcing info that he based his book upon. He was a rather unpersonable fellow who declined to provide any sourcing outside of me paying him a "research fee" and he would "try" to locate his sources. Furthermore, I have the entire Yale file aas well, and the cornerstone to Craigmoe's thesis is a

Value to DCB letters? Depends on content and date. Any interesting information regarding both?

Wes, If there is I haven't found it. I have 'em through the 11th in 1959.

2nd Biennial...see, I have that one and forgot all about it. Thanks for the suggestion!

L.L. McDonald was on the National Camp Committee as its secretary in 1921. By 1931 he was the Director of Camping and is not listed in that area after 1937 (possibly he retired). With regard to the uniforms: Most men are wearing the high crown stetson, which was produced from 1910 - 1920. However, there are also some wearing the "new" low-crown, which was produced from 1921 - 1932. However, there were two versions of the brown silk headband. I do not see the FDL on them, so the hatband places the photo no later than 1927. But, since I do not have the right info in my archive to determine

RE: John L. Alexander Beard to Alexander, nd. (but late December 1910) "I learn with the most sincere regret of your intention to sever your connection with the Boy Scout movement..." Alexander to Beard, December 30, 1910 "I want to thank you for your letter of recent date. At the urgent solicitation of Mr. Pratt and Mr. Robinson, I have decided to stay with the scouts for another nine months, so that the very pleasant relationship that has extended between us need not necessarily be broken." (OKOK, it was nine extra months, not 6. sorry.) What is your sourcing Mi

RE: John L. Alexander Alexander was employed as the BSA's managing secretary from early June until December 31, 1910. However, he was convinced to stay another 6 months, supposedly to help West. Remember, West signed on for only 6 months starting January 2, 1911. He stayed a lot longer as we know. David C. Scott

This thread has gone in a very interesting direction. However, I would hate for facts to get in the way of a good story. Boyce was in London in 1909 when the "fog" hit. Supposedly it was in August. I have also heard July. Boyce never mentioned it until his telling in a Lone Scout Magazine article in 1915. There is a telling by an eyewitness many years later mentioning December. The London weather record for the Savoy area indicated 1 day of fog in his area on December 21. BP was not in London at that time. Boyce supposedly got on a steamer within a day or two and traveled back to the US.

Troutmaster, You have clearly been doing you reading and, IMHO, correctly identified the Seton and BP contributions to the overall origins of the Scouting program. All of these persons, Beard, BP, Seton, West were incredibly ego-centric and I hesitate wto say who was the worst. However, Scouting today is the benefcialry of their visions that combined each one's specialties. As I state in my upcoming thesis of Scouting creation, The Scouting Party, Seton symbolized and formulated the overall "back-to-nature" movement, of which BP's Scouting was a small part. However, the popularity of

I found the Keller bio of Seton was too biased being overly pro-Seton and anti-BP. (I have copies of Seton's papers in my archive that refute some of her core "BP is evil" arguments). I feel that it is not as well researched as it needed to be and rather simplistic in viewpoint. Keller is a Canadian herself and seems to have taken a pro-Canadian view of her fellow British Empire countryman. (As far BP goes, his fellow countryman, Tim Jeal, goes in the opposite direction and goes out of his way to damn the man by simply implying - not convicting - problems with BP's character.) However, Jo

No need to worry too much about the price of the leather issue of the 100th Anniversary book. There should be a hardback version and a paperback version available at a future date.

If I had to pick 10 books that would best explain who, what, when, where, and why Scouting was started and still succeeds today, I couldn't, because I would need these 15 titles for my trip to a desert island. They pretty much cover the topic and are "best of breed" in my humble opinion. They are excellent crash course books with regard to Scouting history. Boyce - Janice A. Petterchak, Lone Scout: W.D. Boyce and American Boy Scouting Beard - Cyril Clemens & Carroll Sibley, Uncle Dan: The Life Story of Dan Beard D.C. Beard, The American Boy's Handy Book Seton - H. Allan A

I can give it a go in a couple of days, if that's ok. I'm sure others will have interesting lists as well.

"He also had this fantasy that B-P stole Scouting from his ideas." Ummmmm...BP did borrow from Seton. I don't think that is in dispute. The question is, "Did BP plagiarize?" and I think the answer to that question is no. I wrote an article a couple of years back on that question for the Scouting Milestones website. www.scouting.milestones.btinternet.co.uk/setonfeud.htm However, this is a Dan Beard thread, so I'll let my article state my opinion on plagiarism, Seton, and BP. My upcoming book in 2009, "The Scouting Party" will address that question also in a more formal way.

You might try this link to the Institute at Round Top, Texas http://festivalhill.org/ My great-uncle was David W. Guion who arranged the popular melody to "Home on the Range," and my family gave a majority of his papers to the Institute afer he died. The other papers are at the University of Texas. The Institute may have an arrangement already in hand that Uncle David composed in the 1930's when the piece was President Franklin D. Roosevelt's "Favorite Song" - as the original sheet music advertises. Good Luck David C. Scott

Wes, I sent you a response to your PM...I never know if this PM stuff gets through, so please let me know if you get it.

Sorry about being unclear gents, I have Peterson's typed transcripts from a number of those interviews that he sent me some years ago when I was researching my book on Scouting's founding due out next year. That part of the interview did not make the book. There are gems of knowledge in those papers. David C. Scott

"I'd love to have heard some of his observations. Actually, I don't recall [Green Bar Bill] him ever saying anything about West at all." In an interview with the late Robert Peterson for the 75th BSA Anniversary book, Hillcourt notes of West: "West was a clean thinker; he had a way of listening to people and then summarizing what they had been saying and then asking them, "Am I correct in my interpretation?" He was the best listener we've ever had. Well, the very fact that he listened to this young fellow from Denmark coming over here, that alone shows it. And I can give you other ex

Here's a link to Amazon sellers who have the UNCLE DAN book. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0007GRVEU/ref=dp_olp_2

For your purpose, the BEST book is the Cyril Clemens and Carroll Sibley book called UNCLE DAN. Clemens is a relative of Mark Twain and he had lots of correspondence with Beard while co-authoring it. HARDLY A MAN is a dreadfully dull read and difficult to go through. It does have some very good info in it, however. For regurgitation purposes, go with UNCLE DAN...it gets to the point quickly since it was written for teens. David C. Scott

Do you mean, Daniel Carter Beard? If so, what info do you need and perhaps I can assist.

Basementdweller writes: "I was under the impression that the uniform was the great equalizer. At Brown Sea rich and poor boys alike wore the same uniform, making them equals." I the spirit of exactness, there were no uniforms at Brownsea. Remember, this was an experimental camp and no uniform had been designed. The boys were, however, presented with an 18 inch ribbon in their patrol color to be pinned to their shoulder.

I guess that I'm in the minority because I have a fundamental problem with incorrectly attributing words to anyone. As Gonzo points out, maybe BP said it to Hillcourt. Point is that BP didn't WRITE them down and publicize it in this case...Hillcourt did..so those words should be attributed to Green Bar Bill. When I write my books or Scouting history articles for the ISCA JOURNAL, I deal with facts. I cannot go off and incorrectly quote someone or give a "fact" that I have been told (and ultimately confirmed) is wrong. That kind of mistake will always get found and, therefore, I - and my