Miki101

You cannot find it because baden-Powell did not say it was "a game with a purpose," Hillcourt did. What Baden-Powell did was "Scouting is a game not a science." I can source that for you when I can get into my archive next week. David C. Scott

Ron, I don't use Wikipedia for research, so there is no link. Not everything is on the internet. You could probably find her there though. Please refer to the BSA National Archives, Bob Peterson's History of the BSA, The Kentucky Road Marker Manual, and passenger records provided by the US National Archives for starters. "Troop leader of Boy Scouts," Nope, that would not be her. If you said, "first leader of a group of English-type Scouts in the USA," then she may be. Like I said in an earlier post, the semantics make the argument valid or not. Fun to think about, though.

Thanks Ron, Now define Scoutmaster.

There is a lot of question surrounding who was #1 in Scouting. Mainly, its among several troops in different parts of the country. One can query google and find a handful of troops claiming to be the first. Pawhuska, OK seems to top the list for the biggest self-promoters for that designation. It all gets down to semantics as to when someone chooses to define the start of Scouting nationally or internationally, and at what stage in the US, and whether it was with English documentation or certificates from the BSA after June 1910. For this discussion about the first scoutmaster in the US,

Hi all, I am finishing a program book on Theodore Roosevelt and the Boy Scouts of America and am in need of a specific style of photo from any TR Pilgramage led by Dan Beard in the 1920's or 1930's. I need something like Beard with a Scout or two, and holding a wreath in front of TR's grave. I would appreciate any assistance from any of you Scouting museum curator types, who may have some archival images. Of course, a proper citation will be included with any image used in the book. Unfortunately, I am very close to sending it to layout for a March press run, so please let me k

The National Office does not keep these records. The only suggestions of first troops are given in the BSA's 75th Anniversary book by Bob Peterson.

Chief Mazzuca is very volunteer oriented. Write him a letter. Tell him who you are and why you care. No faxes, no e-mail. Write and sign.

"...how woman Scoutmaster is destroying manhood of the boy..." Careful Jambo...it is extremely probable that the first Scoutmaster in the United States in 1908 was a woman. Just thought that I'd mention it... David C. Scott

Well Nessmuk, It seems that I have hit a nerve with you and there's no need to get snotty. It also occurs to me that if Seton was so militaristic in his views (outside of his spooring and hunting games) that he should have been very sympathetic to the US entry into WWI. He was not. He was also booted as the Chief Scout for being a pacifist and fighting James E. West every step of the way when West was pushing the BSA towards war service...apart from hating the "militaristic BSA terms of "patrols" and "first class," etc. By the way, George Washington Sears (Nessmuk) was a brilliant wo

Try Paul Moynihan, Archivist. paul.moynihan@SCOUT.ORG.UK

Nessmuck writes: "If you want to go look at Seton's Woodcraft Indians or Beard's Daniel Boone scene, you will even get hint of militarism there." Ummmm...I'm curious. Would you please expand upon the militarism that you see in Seton's Woodcraft Indians and Beard's Sons of Daniel Boone/Boy Pioneers of America? That would be a complete 180 from their actual views. David C. Scott

All of the Brownsea photos reside in the Gilwell Archive. There are only 23 known photos from Brownsea known to exist. David C. Scott

epalmer, That history will be out in 2008...using Seton as the central character...based upon facts and documents.

Some time in 2008 (hopefully early). I have been working on several other book development projects and they have slowed down The Scouting Party. The research is done, however, I just have to finish up the arguments and story line. My next book out is my quotation book on the Americanism & Patriotic wisdom of Theodore Roosevelt. I'll look forward to signing a few of them also.

epalmer, if you're re-working the West article on Wikipedia, I encourage you to check your sources carefully. That Wiki article has several factual mis-statements, making it somewhat unreliable.

"Mystic" Seton? That's an interesting characterization for someone devoted to Native American lore. Reverence to the Great Spirit deserves more credit than that. Actually, BSA would have probably lasted for many years under a Seton regime. However, like his own Woodcraft Indian organization, it probably would have folded upon his death. He was such a strong visionary and spiritual leader among the Woodcrafters and he made himself irreplaceable. West, however, crafted a machine that depended upon no one individual. That's the big difference...although West longed to have the rapport w

"Personally I think they should make an example of the New Orleans Saints. What they did to Dallas last week was criminal." OK, OK SA...now you've gone too far with my beloved 'Pokes...

NO...it was dropping because it was not appealing to young men of the Cubbie age that are not presently Scouts. I feel confident that this problem is being addressed. They had a good recruitment bounce in the 3rd quarter but that's another thread. (said with extreme seriousness) Now why do you deem it so important to demand that BSA just give out information that is really not our business right now? It's in the hands of the Council Execs for them to get out when the want to. Perhaps if you own IBM stock, you could demand that they give you internal memos also. You're an "owner" then, too

Scoutingagain, Let's not be nasty about it, shall we? It's an internal document right now, probably until the bugs get worked out. Applications are flowing into the Trademark officer and they're being turned around as fast as they can. In 6 months there will be a dozen authorized patch makers to which councils can turn. The mis-information coming out like "councils will have to pay BSA National royalties" are incorrect. It's the patch-maker or vendor to each council that will pay the royalty fees to BSA. That's why a vendor must be licensed to use BSA trademarks in commerce situ

Every ouncil exec has seen this directive. If they choose not to share it, that it their decision because it is their responsibility to put theword out. And it is not in my authority to post an internal BSA document.

The document to which you refer is dated October 16 and was sent to each council chief exec from the Trademark officer at BSA. It notes the acceptable uses of BSA trademarks and those which required license fees. In short, any item that can be re-sold or used in commerce must be produced by a BSA licensed supplier. That goes for any patch created by any council. The only uses for un-licensed BSA logos or trademarks, among other things, are photocopied council materials that are NOT used in commerce. The document stating the official BSA position is internal and is not posted for pubi

It's not micromanagement...It's protecting their intellectual property. Their copyrights have been abused in the past and they want to correct it now.

You have to go through an authorized BSA licencee (patch mfg. inthis case)to use BSA trademarks. Try Classb.com first. This was done to protect the BSA franchise and to keep control over rightful usage and also to receive proper royalty payments for BSA's IP.

This should help. http://webpages.charter.net/schustereit1/2007%20Dallas%20TOR%20Flyer.doc

Brian writes, "Someone else can not give a clear web link to their source, and call those of us who do not know where to find their so called source basically uncredible." Well Brian, not everything is on the internet. I gave you my source. BSA Report 12505. The source is the BSA Archives in Irving. Walk into the National Scouting Museum and pick them up at the literature rack. Clear now?