MikeS

Would you by any chance have any additional info on that and/or a link to the song?? Thanks

Here's a (possibly odd) question directed more towards Lodges that have an established Drum. Just out of curiosity, has anyone come up with a Round Dance version of the OA Song ("Firm bound.....")?? I'm thinking something along the lines in the style of say Northern Cree, Pipestone, Black Lodge. If it's been done, just trying to get a few ides of what you've come up with.

Passaconaway Lodge here in NH just got its first female youth 'Arrowman' this past weekend at the Spring Ordeal/Fellowship Weekend.

Several years ago, we did one for my father-in-law who had almost 80 years in Scouting and almost as much in the OA. We had a great Ceremonies Team, but we'd never done such a ceremony. Went more or less "by the book" and were able to get a quick practice in - did the two lines of Arrowmen with linked arms, but in one spot, one Arrowman was holding one end of the Arrow and another Arrowman the other so as to create an "empty spot" for the deceased brother. His sash was draped over the arrow. The same arrow was later broken, so...if you do something like that, the arrow is typically 'notched' a

Glad to hear that the non-OA/Scout affiliated entity “Standing Bear Productions, LLC” is catching on! So long as it is presented as a stand-alone non OA/Scout entity, I believe it should work as the “work-around”. That said, it’s even more important now to do the proper research into your local tribe’s culture and traditions and ‘get it right’. A note on females as Principals. I agree that Lodges should follow whatever local tradition is. In my neck of the woods, you could indeed have a Medicine Woman as well as a Chiefteness, but never a Guide or Guard. One of the issues how

I've only seen the revised ceremony scripts - they tweaked them a bit, but really not by much; you kind of have to 'look for' the changes.

With the inclusion of female youth in the OA, I wonder if National has gone so far as to realize that if females choose to be on a ceremonies team, a few of the current names of Principals will need to be changed. I also wonder if it will be left up to local custom and tradition as to what specific roles female youth could take on? In my neck of the woods (northern New England), you can have a female chief (though rather rare) and medicine woman, but not a guide or guard. In some traditions, only males may be chief (the Lenape have such a custom), many have medicine women, a few have guid

To my knowledge Chapter ceremony teams have not been disbanded - the Call-Out Ceremony is typically written by the Chapter, though a generic Call Out scrip is available through National. It' the Cross-Over / AoL Ceremonies that have been poo-pooed by National and replaced by an "official script"/"Ceremony". Maybe that's what you're thinking of??

With the upcoming Holiday Season, I thought I would take this opportunity (while it’s still allowed – and you can take that any way you’d like) to post a Lënape version of Clement Moore’s most well known work – ‘Twas the Night Before Christmas. This version is done in the Northern Unami dialect - this is the one the OA borrowed all its nomenclature from. The left side is the Lenape, the right side the literal translation to English. This was translated by one of my Lenape language contacts, Ray Whritenour (a/k/a/ Schkaak). Mr. Whritenour is one of the foremost authorities

As someone posted earlier - "Lord" is almost distinctly Christian (or maybe I should say has Christian connotations) and, of course, "father" assumes a male deity. I have translated the Philmont Grace into a few Northern New England native languages - replace "Lord" with "Creator" , get rid of the Judaeo-Christian "Amen" and replace it with "thus may it be" (yes, I know that's essentially the meaning of "Amen", but it's not religio-specific), and it becomes much more generic. It's not a matter of trying to be PC, but rather trying not to be slanted toward a specific religious group/

@HelpfulTracks I asked about it at our Fall Ordeal weekend this past weekend and apparently many seem to think it was actually the four Principals in robes - could have sworn it was the audience, but maybe not.

It was my understanding that the black robes were worn by the Arrowmen spectators, not the four Principals; they were in regalia. Is that not correct?? The work-around, as discussed in other threads on this subject (q.v.) is what I term "Standing Bear Productions, LLC" - no official affiliation with the OA or even BSA.

The only two caveats I would have for going an "alternative route" would be to have a serious review of your Crossover/AOL ceremony to ensure that it is appropriate and does not use or promote stereotyping of N/A culture; and, make sure that any regalia is as spot on as possible for your local area. The ubiquitous 'ribbon shirt' is certainly okay in a pinch or where the local custom (due to climate, etc.) is to go bare-chested and wear a just a breachclout - use your judgement and common sense. Some of the worst offenders I've seen on things like YouTube is when all four Principals appea

Thanks Oldscout448 for the 'recap' of what was discussed at NOAC. I'm pretty sure National gets a few e-mails monthly with respect to "cultural appropriation" - I suspect, given how some Lodges approach AIA/Ceremonies, etc., some of the complaints are legit, but I also suspect that some are from people just trying to make a point, as it were. As some have stated, it should have been more of a development of a set of rules and guidelines rather than entirely eliminating what in most cases can be a powerful experience. Our Chapter is currently on 'summer hiatus', but once things

I have to agree with most on this subject. To say that the new scripts form National are ‘rather lame’ would indeed be a kindness. Any Scouts can perform these as written; there is absolutely no need for the OA to do these. The Crossover is essentially an infomercial/promo on high adventure camps that are so cost-prohibitive, most Scouts will never be able to afford to go. There are plenty of AOL/Crossover scripts out there on the internet that incorporate Native American themes. A Pack may choose to do any one of these. Most OA Crossover/AO

Yes, we use hand drums and flute as the Candidates proceed to the ceremony ring - it's a long path through the woods so plenty of places to situate oneself unseen by the Candidates, but the music heard by all who are in the area. It works quite nice if players are familiar with the instruments and are actually playing a piece and not just making 'sound'. We have a huge hand drum that is used for some ceremonies which, on a quiet night on a lakefront, can be heard for quite some distance.

Guess I don't really see what the big concern is with coed rules and the like - there has been co-ed Scouting in the US since the 50's; the Polish and Ukrainian Scouts (ZHP and Plast, respectively) have been coed in this country since they "moved" here in the 1950's - not sure why we just don't confer with them to see how they've been dealing with these issues for the past several decades in the US. I'm sure they've figured out most of the 'bugs' by now. Ukrainian "Plastunka" - female member of 'Plast'

If it is done correctly, I don't see it as an issue. Many regalia pieces are based on historic pieces and are meticulously researched. Some are even more "authentic" and historically correct (in not only appearance but construction) than what many actual tribal members will wear to a typical Pow Wow. If done correctly and respectfully, complaints are pretty rare around my neck of the woods. That entails actually learning the culture and learning what is appropriate and what is not. That said, you do see the "Chief Wannabe" types as well, which unfortunately give the Order a bad name.

Here's a popular Christmas Carol translated into the Northern Unami dialect of Lenape (the dialect the OA borrowed from). Enjoy! Lënape Carol.pdf

Obviously, the names of the Principals may need reconsideration - 'Guide' would still be okay for either male or female, all other "positions" though were typically male. You could, of course, have a female Medicine Woman, but you couldn't keep the Lenape name as it refers strictly to a male.

Considering most Scouting in the world is co-ed, I think it's about time we jumped into the current century. Why would it not be possible to see how other countries that have had co-ed Scouting for years and years deal with it. In fact Polish Scouts and Ukraine Scouts are actively established right here in the US (a fall out from WWII, I believe) - 'ZHP' and 'Plast' are both co-ed, and right here in the US - why not learn from them??

As Teams become more "well known" in their district (and even out of district), it's not at all uncommon to get multiple requests in the same day. Kudos for your Team handling the scheduling snafu so well (but get used to it - it does indeed happen). Our guys have a tradition this time of year - when we have two 'back to back' ceremonies, they do not change out of regalia, rather they proceed to a local McDonalds, walk in (a la full regalia) and order Shamrock shakes. Funds are generally in one of their many pouches. I can just imagine the look behind the counter:) Whatever works!

Night time seems to be the general consensus with which I totally agree; the Ceremonies as written (particularly Ordeal) are really not written for a "daylight" performance.

CalicoPenn and Oldscout448, Yeah, oftentimes I suspect it's the kitchen crew who actually determines when the ceremonies are held! Typically, they have an idea of when dinner will be ready and it's almost up to the adult ceremonies advisor to then determine when the ceremonies will be held. It's totally ridiculous. With the change, the kitchen crew could do dinner whenever they wanted to since the ceremonies would not happen until later in the evening. Totally agree - some of Meteu's lines sound ludicrous at 5:00 pm in bright daylight and even worse at our past Fall Lodge Confere

Thanks Calico Penn - that's kind of what I suspected, i.e. not policy, but rather guideline only. Hope we can get it changed in our Lodge. The issue would be logistics I suspect and I'm sure we'll get flack from someone, but at least it's something that is not etched in stone and can't be changed - really good to know.