MikeS

Yeah, you could do that rather than come up with a new name. I agree - in order to get the symbolism, one has to be VERY familiar with the Legend as well as the symbolism of the Pre-Ordeal and Ordeal Ceremonies. May not be a huge issue for Ceremonialists, but the average Arrowman, I fear, isn't going to have a clue.

Funny, I just went through that section again - if the dude had a fire that big, doubtful his fingers would be all that cold; probably melt all the snow within a ten foot radius! Not to mention, no Indian would ever make a fire that big; that's a "white man's" thing - you would not waste the wood and you would not make a fire that could potentially be seen by an adversary (considering he is kind of on the border of two territories). Being that close to the "border", the last thing you'd probably want to burn is your only weapon (and hunting tool). To be fair though, it could have actuall

Yeah, I know what you mean, Big Dave. I didn't want to go there - "poetic license", I suppose, but I think the script should have been released for a more wider review than what it was. Be nice if this one could be considered a "draft" and the "final copy" be released in say late January of next year - enough time for some additional input and revision and for people to learn it. The Gong - you could bring back another Principal/helper, but it is at times a logistical nightmare to try and get just the four together at one time for even a scheduled Ceremony.....to add one more to the list.

If anyone is interested, I had written a short study on Lenape words in the Order - to quote from the introduction: This short study examines the pronunciation of the Lenape names of the four Principals found in Order of the Arrow ceremonies as well as some of the other names and phrases found in Ceremonies. Over the almost one hundred years the Order has been in existence, very Anglicized pronunciations have more or less become the “standardâ€Â. This exercise offers the correct pronunciation with an insight as to how the incorrect versions originated. I don't think I ca

I actually don't mind the opening or closing - even with this closing, Meteu can deliver his final lines from a more impressive location - we use a 20+ foot boulder (scaffolding and ladder on back to a platform) said boulder just happens to be somewhat in the shape on an arrowhead. When the others are going through their lines and snuffing out the candles, Meteu sneaks out of the "stage area" and reappears atop the rock to deliver his final invocation. I'm glad to see the new cermeony affords the same opportunity as it's quite effective! I don't mind not doing the 'taps' - I can see the l

Should have clarified a bit above - the k' s (both 'k' 's ) in the Guide's name should not be pronounced as 'k' in "cot", but rather like the 'k' in "Scot", i.e. there is no puff of air AFTER the k's here, just one BEFORE the second one. For some it may be easier to substitutre 'g' for 'k'.

So, found the ceremony and went through it a few times. Very different, not quite what I was expecting, but all in all, not bad. I do like the fact that the symbolism is explained at the end; very helpful to performers. One area is not quite clear and that’s where the Principals (in each their respective turn) should move to “where all Candidates can see and hear them and where the fire lights their featuresâ€Â. I assume they simply move to a spot closer to the fire where they can still be seen by all the spectators – doesn’t seem to mater where exactly, or am I r

What is the link to the new ceremony script???!!!

Hello All, Here's a little something different to add to your OA gatherings when it comes time for meals - the Philmont Grace.....in Lnape: li mehmichink, li hahkwink, li lehlexeokn, li kkuna, li witiswakn k maehlana, Kishelmienk, wanshi, Na n lekch. Rough phonetic guide EH-lee may-h-MEE-cheeng, EH-lee eh-HAWH-hkweeng, EH-lee lay-h-lay-khay-OH-kahn, EH-lee keh-KOO-naw. EH-lee wee-tee-s-WAW-kahn ok maw-ay-h-LAW-naw, Kee-shay-l-MEE-ayng, waw-NIH-shee, naw n LAY-kech The CAPS indicate main stress in a word, d

I guess it really depends on the region your from and what local Nations or Tribes exist in your area as to what the "Native" reaction would be. In my neck of the woods, Europeans have been interacting with the Native population since the late 1500's so there's been an awful lot of mixing of cultures and a lot of intermarrying so the "blond haired blue-eyed" Native is just as common as the dark, thick black-haired "Asian" sort of looking Natives elsewhere - depends on how much the locals have historically intereacted with one another. The Abenaki community here in NH to me looks mo

I think the experience of BSA24 is rather unfortunate - perhaps it is a "local thing". My experience is more on the lines of Tokala and emb021; i.e. very positive with help from local Native Peoples and Nations. Proper research is absolute key. There's nothing worse than seeing guys throwing on a ribbon shirt and leggings, breachclout, and whatever "accessories" the Chapter has, with obviously no clue to the hows and why of what they are doing. Our Chapter concentrates specifically on northern New England (NH, VT, ME)and the Maritimes as we are located in NH. Our regalia is VERY northern

Of course, along with the above, particularly with D&D Presentations, it's not just getting it right but also being able to explain to your audience WHY it is that things are done this way - be able to answer typical questions like why do you just dance clockwise?, why do you wear such and such a thing, why are your legings not fringed, etc., etc. be familiar with the REASONS things are done not just that fact that that's just the way they're done!

Hello All, First, I have to second Eagle 92s comments re remembering what was going on re NA history in the 1920s in our neighboring state of ME for example (and in the Maritimes), dancing and music amongst the Mikmaq went underground and did not emerge until about the late 1960s and even then it was done with some trepidation for quite a while not so much repression from the government as from the Church; NA music and dances were still frowned upon in Nova Scotia by the RC Church as late as the early 1970s! I was also told by a Passamaquoddy woman I spoke with in the late 1990s that s

I have to second Eagle92's response, particularly numbers 1 and 2 and Eagle90's number 3 - way too open in terms of who gets elected. I suspect in some troops its almost automatic; as soon as you hit First Class and have done the camping requirements, you're automatically "elegible" as a Candidate. Definitely need to get back to the "creme de la creme" as it were!! I do agree with the memorization of lines and putting life into the ceremonies, however, if a Ceremonial Team is relatively new, I have no problem with the "cheat sheets" on the back of a feather fan, shield, or whatever so lon

It's mainly watch, learn and practice (practice, practice and more practice!). If your local Nation ahs a website, contact the current chief or educational director and ask - many times, people are only too happy to oblige in answering any questions you may have (at least that's been my experience). BTW - I am of Penobscot descent, and perhaps that's why I'm sort of a die hard traditionalist (i.e. trying to steeer clear of the powwow scene and go completely local), but I think it makes mor eof an impression when you can say to a group you're demontrating to that what they are seeing has

I just recently did this with my chapter - we are NOT doing the usual powwow style stuff but rather adhereing strictly to the traditional dances of the extreme northeast where I'm from (Abenaki, Penobscot, Passamaquoddy-Malacite, and Mi'kmaq). Most of the songs we do would not be known outside of ME, NH, VT and the Maritimes - a few might be known in southern New England. So, for example, we don't do the Crow Hop - not native to our area (brought to the area with the powwow's in the 1920's-1930's). Our regalia is strictly very northern New England (i.e. virtually no head roaches, no Iroquois "

In our lodge, we heald the elections in January and the Call/Tap-Out was at the Klondike in mid February. Scouts were not told whether or not they were elected; they found out at the Call/Tap-Out. I think telling results behforehand defeats the entire purpose of the Call/Tap-Out. About midway through the ceremony, Chief called out the names, Candidates came forward and were met by Medicine Man who stared into their eyes, looksed them up and down and then administered a firm, "tap" on the upper right arm (while his hand was in the Scout Sign so it would not be too hard a tap). The C

Dziękuje bardzo!! Someone even suggested e-bay, but I found nothing there.

Hello all, Just curious if anyone might know if many of the interpreter strips have been discontinued?? I've been searching for one for Polish for quite some time and have been unable to find one. I don't think even National has it. Are these things available anywhere?? Thanks!

I agree with Knight in that it is the meaning which must be taken to heart, however, I must respectfully disagree with the comment that the pronunciation is irrelevant - if the OA (or anybody for that matter) borrows a word from another culture, at least do them the respect of at least attempting to get the pronunciation correct; in this case here, it's not a difficult one (fortunatly it's a much shorter word in Lnape than its English translation ).

Yeah, I have some of different sizes and have to say, I much prefer the larger ones - again, thinking of one of the things it's meant to be used for, i.e. a tool (whether for first Aid or otherwise). In our Troop we use the Kente cloth neckers and in keeping somewhat with tradition of Kente cloth, the necker must be earned by doing ten (10) hours of community service. I do have a necker from my ancestral homeland of Poland - I thought for sure it would be a larger "older style" necker, but was a little shocked to find out when I got it that it's actually a little smaller than many "

Old Grey Eagle and all, Yep - sounds like the same reference my son found. I too wear it over the collar (not turned in) and, (GASP), the collar is buttoned (BLASPHAMY!!! I know, I know). In any event, I have been told it was the "tradition" (I suspect perhaps the troop's tradition adopted before my arrival) to wear it over the collar (not turned in) - I think, unless you have a really long neckerchief, it looks very unkempt and not very neat, but...who am I to break the tradition? Oh yeah, I'm the SM, time for a review at the next Committeee Meeting I think some of the kids in

DWS - thanks for the response - I was in Scouting about that time as well (Cub Scouts), but do not seem to recall the collarless shirts - it does indeed sound like the possible origin of that practice. My son actually looked it up yesterday evening and apparenlty the official guide (not sure where he got it from, I'd have to check) does say that if worn oover the collar, the collar is to be tucked/turned in. Hmmmm..I'll have to check.

Hello all, I was hoping to get some thoughts on what the "official" way to wear the Boy Scout neckerchief is - I have been told it can be done two ways; either under the collar as in Cub Scouts or over the collar (however, I think over the collar requires the collar to be "turned in", i.e. tucked into the neck of the shirt). I my troop they are worn, supposedly in the "traditional" manner, of over the collar (collar NOT turned/tucked into the shirt). Personally, I think it looks horrible and I think we should wear them under the collar, but just wondering what the "official r

Sorry, I should have added that modern Southern Unami uses a VERY nice, precise and easy to understand orthography - it much more clearly represents the sounds of the language. This is the spelling I used at the beginning of my previous post.