BadenP

It would be nice if CSE Mazzucca went to visit the Scouts Canada uniforming operation and see how it should be done. Offer a quality product at a reasonable cost, something the BSA Supply division and the CSE really need to learn and understand.

noname The situation you are dealing with is part of what is wrong in scouting today with its continuing shrinking membership. A couple of adults and a handful of boys want to start a pack or troop, they go to council and get no help and they just throw together a recruiting night with no real plan or organization in place, a nonexsistant CO and the usual result the unit falls apart in the first year. In these cases of one man show units they are usually doomed from the start, and why because of DISORGANIZATION and no real SUPPORT. IMO, noname you need to get your committee, leaders, and CO organized, setup and on the same page before you even think about a recruiting night. Otherwise your efforts will be in vain and your unit will fail. For all your new CC's strengths her methodology will doom your unit to failure. Scouting was never meant to be a one man show.

eisley I agree with you the movie had every old west stereotype in the book, but Ford and Craig did a great job, as did the lovely Olivia. Great entertainment and the perfect escape movie you don't have to analyse to death, just enjoy. But you got to wonder the aliens had the townies way outnumbered and outgunned, even with the Apaches help, yet once again good triumphed over evil. I give it two thumbs up!

I tell you what if the stock market continues to plummet as it did today and days prior, and our and the European economies continue to plummet none of this debate is going to matter as we are getting as close to a serious global recession than we ever have before. This is not the time to be engaging in a political party pissing contest. All the Congress and the Administrative branch are at fault for allowing this crisis to get as bad as it is and they along with the leaders of business and industry need to get together and come up with a recovery plan and quickly. The government or business moguls can NOT do it on their own and if all parties can not get it together soon we will, along with most of the world, go over that ledge into a full scale recession or possible depression. Then it will be too late to point fingers or assign blame, it is time to WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

You are not a pack yet! You need at least five adult leaders and a Charter Organization to get a pack off the ground and in this size pack your best bet is the parents. Then you need to divide the boys by age to see how many tigers, wolves, bears, and webelos you have to determine how many den leaders you need. Recruiting is a whole lot easier when you have a history of pack activities to show the new boys and parents to entice them to join, if not bring some easy and quick fun games to do with the group. Talk about what you see the pack doing as a group for the upcoming year. Get your DE involved to help you organize and be there for your recruitment night. It really is all in your sales technique to get new members and leaders. Frankly if the prospective parents see this pack as a one man show only it will be a major turnoff, one man shows rarely last very long, usually fall apart in their first year. Good Luck.

Ann I am happy you now have a CC who can "get things done", however she has to also remember that a committee works by consensus, it is not a dictatorship. I have seen individuals in other units who acted like a one man/woman show and it did some serious damage to the units. As long as your CC realizes she is part of a team things should go smoothly. However if she continues to be abrasive in dealing with the other pack leaders you could have a real problem on your hands, especially if some of those leaders decide to walk, it is a fine line indeed. Good Luck.

Stosh That's the point isn't it we have conditioned our boys to the idea that a rank patch is the ONLY priority in scouting, and to get your Eagle by age 13. I disagree with you about a rank patch being the only motivation for a boy, if the activity is fun, outdoor oriented, and challenging they will be eager to give it a try. If your program is sitting down at a troop meeting, opening a book and reading about something then yes you will need more than a badge to get them motivated. Many troops today do too much sitting and not enough getting out and doing which leads to boring meetings and higher drop out rates.

Barry You are so right, nowadays in most troops it is all about the BADGES, not the values, or the outdoor experience, and sadly not even about the fun of scouting.

Sctdad If you are really serious about retention of your new boys throw that whole lesson plan booklet out, forget about the NSP, and put your new boys into established patrols where the patrol members can all act like a guide, learn leadership, and at the same time integrate the newbies into the mainstream troop faster and more efficently. The new boys will stay longer because they are not segregated but will really feel part of the troop. Or you can do it your way and wonder six months later where all your new boys have gone and why.

Barry As far as the history is concerned in order to get more Eagles National also changed, eliminated some, and simplified the requirements for Eagle. The result is they may have more Eagles, but the quality of many of them is sorely lacking. It really had nothing to do with the NSP program which has done little in improving the retention of first year scouts.

scoutnut That is not what I said, they can have the COR take over the CC duties as well anytime they want without a new app or even informing council unti recharter time. The change will not be reflected until the new charter. Do you understand now?

scoutnut This troop is required to have a CC designated at charter time, if they want the COR to become the new CC they just have to switch them, NO application is required until recharter time. A COR/CC only gets one membership card from the BSA not two, the COR is the top/primary position and that is what his card will say, I know this from personal experience as a COR/CC for my crew. The charter will have him listed as both, so it really is not necessary to fill in a new app at this time, as I am sure their council will tell them. THAT IS THE POINT!

5 year "The patrol leader could take the guidelines apart and only use what they want." But that is the whole point of whats wrong with your little lesson plan, the TG's or PL's hands are tied or limited, they are not allowed to use their own leadership and planning skills or methodology. In other words this is still an ADULT LED/CONTROLLED troop. Your patrol leaders are NOT really leading just following an adult created lesson plan model. That is not anywhere close to being a boy led patrol method and IMO not truly following the scouting model set up by BP and Hillcourt. Of course you and the other adults love your little handbook as it is an adult controlled program which holds little value to boys wanting to learn leadership. This is NOT what scouting is supposed to be all about.

OGE First I am not accussing you personally for sedentary leaders, "now you have" refers to the end result of National's shift in the program away from the outdoors. I think Kudu using the term dangerous is implying that all outdoor activities have a inherent level of potential danger, and is using the word to catch the boys attention. The bottom line is that the current boy scout program is very different from 20 years ago, all of the changes that National has made since the fiasco of urban scouting in the 70's have been dismal failures in building membership. As National continues to delete scout basics and replace them with sedentary classroom activities the numbers will continue to drop. Boy Scouts have lost almost all of what made it a unique and respected youth organization. Instead we have a CSE who states over and over again that camping and the outdoors are just not important to the youth of today, well he is dead wrong.

Scoutnut The COR is a registered position with the unit and is on the charter along with the other leaders and committee members. To make that person a CC or MC for the unit takes just a check on the recharter form, no additional application is necessary. I am the COR/CC for my Venturing crew, as the COR my duties are to represent the interests of the CO to the unit, district, and council, as well as settle issues beyond the purview of the committee, such as removing a leader from the unit. As CC my position is to make sure the committee members are all doing their functions and that the unit leadership have what they need to deliver a great program for the youth, as well as vote in committee, and check in with the units leaders. These are two different positions with distinct and different duties attached to each of them. The IH is not a registered member of the unit and only rarely actively involved in the unit. He/She has the final say if there is any conflict among the unit leadership and can override the COR if necessary as well as close down a unit if necessary.

OGE You are looking at the problem all wrong, the reason the BSA does not have enough outdoor types is that National has moved the entire program away from the outdoors to CATER to the sedentary boys, for no other reason than another pathetic attempt to raise membership numbers. So now you have also attracted sedentary adult leaders and that just compounds the problem tenfold. Look a scoutmaster doesn't have to be another Daniel Boone to give his boys a solid outdoor experience, just getting them outdoors is the first step to reversing this growing trend by National of "classroom scouting", and their continuing trend of removing outdoor requirements from the rank advancements. Stosh Sorry to hear about your "blackballing" from scouting. Sometimes certain scouters really don't want to hear the truth and just want to continue to live in their own little bubbleworld of what they think scouting should be.

To clear the confusion the COR by his title represents the Charter Organization and not the unit. They have the authority to overide any unit committee decisions that are in conflict with the CO's interests or beliefs. The COR can also be the CC or MC of a units committee and be eligible to vote on committee issues, as a CC or MC. The COR also has voting authority on district and council issues. If a unit committee is in conflict or a leader is violating BSA policies the COR or IH are the only ones with the authority to officially remove that individual from the unit. The COR has the right to attend all unit committee meetings and offer their guidance, or override any decision of the committee if it is conflict with any policy of the CO.

Brent In your ongoing debate with Beavah I think you are missing the point entirely. It is not "liberal politics" causing the moral decline in society it is the political system as a whole which has broken down and has been broken since at least the 1960's. Our political election process and political machine in DC has become so corrupted by outside special interests that NOTHING can or does get done anymore. Before we as a country can do anything about the debt crisis or take any broadbrush strokes to cut any program we need to first fix our own corrupted political process. It is like being in a sinking boat in shark infested waters, you can keep shooting at the sharks but eventually your boat will sink and you will be totally at the sharks mercy, that is the situation in DC today.

Trabucchi While your plan sounds interesting it is still an adult led approach rather than letting the patrol members especially their leaders plan their own program which is why, IMO, the NSP runs contrary to the patrol method established by BP. Adult led troop programs really have no place in a boy scout troop unless you plan not to give the boys any leadership experience which will result in a much higher drop out rate.

K1 As a former WDL myself my advice is don't rush it, even if they complete all 20 activity badges by Feb. but watch more than half will not. Use this time to really get your boys ready for boy scouts, try doing some more activities with a couple of troops in the area, work with them becoming proficient in a few basic skills for Scout and Tenderfoot ranks. This time I have found with some of my past Webelos is kind of like the transition from middle school to high school, most are nervous, unsure if they even want to go on to a troop, afraid they won't be accepted in the troop, etc. Believe it or not what you do right now with your boys will be a huge determinant as to whether or not they stay in scouting, just my .02 cents worth. Good Luck!

Brent & GP Sorry but I think you guys are way off base if you think Canadian Scout uniforms "don't look like scouts", bull. Their streamlined look compared to the BSA badge ladened uniforms "Christmas tree" look is not only more functional it is a cleaner look. BSA uniforms with all their permanent and temporary patches, add a merit badge sash, OA sash makes our kids look like paramilitary generalismos by comparison.

I agree with Barry and Fred, NSP's never really worked well when I was a SM more new scouts dropped out as in their opinion, they were different from the other patrols and were treated by some of the others like they had nothing to contribute. IMHO if you are going to have a NSP give them a patrol leader instead of a troop guide and let one of the newbies get elected as the APL, let the NSP transition into a regular patrol in six months, especially if you use that FCFY program. The last thing any 11-12 yo boy wants is to go into a program as a newbie and be treated differently from the rest of the boys. From my experiences in scouting NSP's create a weak link in a troop program, the quicker your new scouts transition into regular patrols the better. FCFY, IMO, also is a bad idea if it is forced down the boys throats, let the boys naturally progress at their own speed and you will keep them longer. Troop leaders really need to look at their boys as individuals with different learning styles and aptitudes and forcing FCFY will frustrate many of them and they will drop out because in their minds they will feel not as smart or skillful as the other boys.

Brent Well you and Rick Perry can sit together in his Texas church and pray he is elected President, because it would literally take some heavy duty divine intervention for that guy to even stand a chance. Scouting is not about taking sides in any political election, rather teaching the youth about doing their duty as a citizen and voting for who they think is the best candidate.

Eng61 Than more likely than not you would be sadly mistaken and already PREJUDGING the boy. That is not what a good SM would do or ever should do, because if he is doing that in all cases with his boys he has NO business being a scout leader in the first place.

Stosh If memory serves the last time you posted here you announced you were leaving your troop and scouting because of internal problems in the troop and you were asked to leave. Did something change? It sounds like you are still actively involved or is your scenario based on past experience?