MattR

Well Packsaddle, I just got a survey and it's pretty much what you wanted: 1) Should the National Organization remove the BSA's membership restriction regarding sexual orientation? 2) Would this change to the membership standards affect your involvement in Scouting? 3) If there was no change to the membership standards, would your involvement in Scouting be affected? 4) In your opinion, what is in the best long-term interest of the BSA regarding the issue to remove the organization's membership restrictions regarding sexual orientation? 5) How are you affiliated with S

Packsaddle, you must be old to be making Ross Perot jokes. And I must be old to understand them. I applaud them for asking any questions at all. I'd rather see what the parents of scouts say than those that would be just fine with destroying the BSA to win an argument. I think the clarity comes from forcing people to think about real situations. I doubt most parents understand the relationship between the CO, the unit, and the council, so using scenarios seems like a good idea. Unfortunately this whole thing has little to do with logic, so there's no point in reasoning about it.

Paraphrasing the questions, I read: 1) Can gays be in scouts? 2) Can gays be morally straight? 3) Can gays tent with others? 4) Can leaders of cubscouts be gay? 5) Should the CO be able to decide about gays? 6) Can a gay leader go camping with boys? 7) Can scout adult leaders be gay? 8) Can gays be in scouts? 9) Should the CO be able to decide about gays? 10&11) What's bothering you? 12) Is the issue of gays a core part of scouting? 13) Will you leave if it doesn't go your way? There's a lot of similarity between the question

Too late, I've already made plenty of mistakes. But I know exactly what you're talking about. Troop culture is very hard to change.

Barry, thanks for the ideas. I agree with most of what you said. I like the time and "everyone is accountable". I've done it some but it could be more. A lot of what you're talking about is problem solving. ILST mentions communication, planning, and EDGE, but not problem solving. The PL and SPL handbook talk about conflict resolution and problem solving, why not ILST?

If I had a couple of tenderfoot scouts that sounded like the two of you I'd put them in the circle of death and wait for just one to stagger out (no, not really) or sit you down and make you shake hands. This falls under the category of a bad argument. Neither one of you is going to convince the other of anything. So give it up, make your peace, and move on.

Hi Barry, I'm asking because I'd like to modify the existing syllabus. Mostly I want to extend some of the ideas with concrete examples. The duty roster is an example of making delegation easier to do. When I ask PLs what their biggest problem is it's almost always dealing with a scout that won't help out. There are lazy kids, self centered kids, and kids that want to check the boundaries. Fortunately it's not many but even one, for a 14 year old PL, is hard to deal with and it ruins the cohesiveness of the patrol. The average teenager doesn't want to rock the boat so his first tendancy i

Hi Spiney, I'd be interested in seeing your syllabus for scout leadership training. I've struggled with using the standard syllabus because it seems too vague for a scout. How to set up a duty roster is concrete. The importance of communication doesn't really help with a scout that doesn't want to help clean dishes. The vague concepts are important but there are some common situations that a patrol leader should know how to handle.

A new rabbi comes to a well-established congregation. Every week on the Sabbath, a fight erupts during the service. When it comes time to recite the Shema prayer, half of the congregation stands and the other half sits. The half who stand say, "Of course we stand for the Shema. It’s the credo of Judaism. Throughout history, thousands of Jews have died with the words of the Shema on their lips." The half who remain seated say, "No. According to the Shulchan Aruch (the code of Jewish law), if you are seated when you get to the Shema you remain seated." The people who are standing yell at

Welcome to the Twilight Zone. Do do Do do.

I just had a scout like that in my troop. For three years, if there was a problem, he was part of it. From not helping out, to teasing new scouts, to almost burning down a 150 year old historical site. I tried finding something he'd be interested in, I tried talking to him, and finally I decided he just wasn't interested in scouts. He'd bring friends with him and they'd join the troop, only to get into trouble with him and eventually drop out. At one point I asked the PLs what their biggest fear was and they said this kid. We roll played how to deal with him in a respectful manner. I'm not sur

Bear Claw, I absolutely agree with you that going from adult led to boy led requires a lot more than what the training offers. I'm also going through this. Here are my 2 cents. First of all, boys need to feel like they own it, that success or failure really depends on them. For older scouts this is just as important as having fun. If scouts is going to compete with all the other things it needs to be meaningful. They know a joke POR when they see it. Librarian where nobody needs a book? PL where the SPL and/or adults do everything? Find things that really need to be done. I started with P

There are LDS troops in Canada. Also, I wonder if the local LDS stake or ward has a say in the matter.

That's currently what it is. They took the "are you gay" question off of all the forms years ago.

AZMike, I agree that scouting likes old fashioned skills. No doubt using cast iron is nothing to brag about at school. But I don't know any parents that wouldn't like their kids to know responsibility, teamwork, being selfless, how to take care of yourself, service, problem solving, .... Service is a popular thing now with younger people. Both my son and daughter are going to central america over spring break to help out. Two very different programs. They just want an adventure and someone else is willing to pay for it (nope, not me). Adreneline junkies like the outdoors. Hiking the grand Cany

Change is hard. There probably would be an initial drop but nobody knows how much. A lot of people said they'd move to Canada or secede right before the last two presidents were elected and I'm not sure either did. I suspect there are a lot of boys out there that would like what we have to offer but don't really know what that is because it's filtered by their parents who also don't know. National recognizes this and has said they don't control the message. They're right about that. Right now the message is gays. It doesn't matter what side you're on. For outsiders that want things to sta

MomToEli, I saw it in the "So, does this change the discussion?" thread from Lodge 489 on page 2.

The 70% in favor of a local option here matches that of the polled number from the councils. With 70 samples here and 294 council samples (364 total), and 1,039,825 adults in the bsa (from wikipedia), the margin of error is just over 5%. This assumes the poll is random. Still, this is a surprising number to me. Maybe the silver lining of the way this has been handled is that it will start the conversation within the boy scouts. That could make 16 weeks waiting a good thing in the long term.

I think you need to login before you can vote.

Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness. Here we sit like birds in the wilderness, waiting for National to make a decision. Time for some Cheerful. There are two underlying scenarios. The first is they knew they had the vote before hand. The second is they really didn't know the vote. Given the first, this is just a way for the shock to be accepted with the minimum fallout. Some people are upset to the point of making rash decsions. Given the second scenario, this is what they said it is, namely they want to ask more questions. So, I

I don't think I'm over analyzing this. My methods usually work; ask a lot questions and listen. I do appreciate everyone's comments. My plan is starting to gel, even though it will likely change. It is going to be a slow process. I'll start by talking to the CC as the two of us really are the wise men. I'm fairly sure we agree and it is nuanced. Next, we should ask those that do the most work in the troop. They're the ones that have the boys interest in mind and believe the most about what scouting is about. If we get some consensus then great. If I'm in the minority then I have my exit p

I would like to be prepared for the change that might come down the pipe if national says each unit is to decide for itself what it's stance is on gay scouts and adults. I live in a swing county of a swing state and I do not see an easy road for my troop. My goal is to find a good fit for every scout in my troop so they and their families are comfortable with their troop. There are assumptions and issues and I'd like to understand what they are and have some idea of how to steer my troop through this possible change. What I don't want to do is use this thread to change someone's opinion a

Moosetracker, good idea about spinning a new thread. But what forum? There needs to be a new category: Working with Parents. In the meantime I replied to the newspaper that it was too early to talk, and asked if they would they be interested in joining us on our winter campout this weekend to learn what scouts is mostly about. I didn't get a response. I just blew my 15 minutes.

Would appreciate some guidance to my previous post. I'm already getting calls from the local paper.

I've used this forum to help me learn how to be a better scoutmaster and I appreciate it. The changes mentioned, if they happen the way everyone is guessing, might be one I need help with. I've never worried about gays before. I don't think sex of any variety or level is appropriate in a troop. It just has never been very related to motivating scouts to be better patrol leaders or take on a challenge. So things are fine now. This might change next week or next month and I'd like to be prepared. The problem that I see is how to have a civil discussion about this issue and make any changes