MattR

A rope with an eye splice in it would be ... single ended.

If you really want some fun make a zero ended rope by doing a long splice back on itself. Give said rope to a scout and ask him to tie a square knot in it. (first he has to find the ends.) Promise him an ice cream if he can tie it in less than 5 seconds.

@Hawkwin, I used to be a MB counselor for Programming MB and what you said is not quite what's in the MB book, or at least not how I interpreted it. Here is req 5:

Projects. Do the following:

a. With your counselor’s approval, choose a sample program. Modify the code or add a function or subroutine to it. Debug and demonstrate the modified program to your counselor.

b. With your counselor’s approval, choose a second programming language and development environment, different from those used for requirement 5a and in a different industry from 5a. Then write, debug, and demonstrate a functioning program to your counselor, using that language and environment.

c. With your counselor’s approval, choose a third programming language and development environment, different from those used for requirements 5a and 5b and in a different industry from 5a or 5b. Then write, debug, and demonstrate a functioning program to your counselor, using that language and environment.

d. Explain how the programs you wrote for requirements 5a, 5b, and 5c process inputs, how they make decisions based on those inputs, and how they provide outputs based on the decision making.

Requirement a) says take an existing program and modify it. Requirements b) and c) are to write a program (not just modify one) in different languages from what was used in a).

What I have found is this entire requirement is really hard for scouts with no programming experience and trivially easy for scouts that do have experience. The rest of the requirements are just boring. Anyway, it is hard. I'd suggest pick a really simple task like read in a number and write out the next, or the square of the next. There's simple input dealing with a simple data type, a simple operation, and a simple output. From there go ahead and write the code for each of the two other languages. It is a good exercise.

Whatever your son does, don't copy and paste from programs on the web. I had plenty of scouts do that and I know more about programming then they can even imagine. There are certain styles of writing code that a scout won't know about and when I saw that in their programs I'd do a search on their program and would find the exact same code online. That wasn't a fun discussion with the boy, and then his parent, and SM. Needless to say I stopped doing that MB.

13 hours ago, ianwilkins said:

Cor blimey squire, strike a light! I can't adam and eve you said that! We ain't so bad is we? 

 

Be careful what you wish for. If we're British then you all be American, if ya git my drift.

I've seen several packs close recently. The issue is not the scouts, it's the adults (not) volunteering. Add that category. Also, all of your reasons relate to scouts, not cubs. Another category is repetition, or "I'm sick of advancement."

How can this go wrong? ..... There will be two SPLs, one boy and one girl. That's okay, assuming they really are doing separate programs. But they won't, because there's only one committee to support them. So there will be, wait for it, co-SPLs. That should work just fine.

There's a missing part here. Or maybe something not brought up enough. A game with a purpose means a fun game. That means something new. New plus fun requires imagination and that takes time. When it's rushed it turns into simple advancement. Adventure is the same way. It takes time to figure out a good idea.
 

On 3/3/2018 at 8:25 AM, SSScout said:

""What do you call the Medical School Graduate with the lowest GPA?

 

 == Doctor"" 

No. It's someone with a lot of debt and not a license to practice (that requires passing residency) and make money. So I'd say "a fool."

5 hours ago, krikkitbot said:

I guess my question would be, if he shows up 3 years after disappearing and asking for project approval, SM conference and EBOR, do you approve it?

I had several scouts that did something similar. All of them earned Eagle. But there's a difference between what you imply and what I saw. The scout that gets Life and disappears does this because Eagle doesn't mean anything to him. Eventually he decides he wants it. If it was dad that wanted it then dad would have been pushing and the scout would have asked when he was 15. Rather, while dad is pushing, often the scout is pushing back by ignoring dad. Eventually dad gives up and the scout, realizing he has freedom and can do what he wants, decides for himself. By the time he gets to me he knows why he wants Eagle and asking him to do some extra work so the younger scouts look up to him, so the rank means something to him, was never too dramatic. Besides, it takes about 6 months to do an eagle project from start to finish, plus time to do the last half dozen MBs, and so there's plenty of time to work with the younger scouts.

5 hours ago, fred johnson said:

If he did the work, yes.  The requirements for Eagle are really not that huge.  A gung-ho kid can knock them out if desired fairly quick.

Fred, I will add that I do respect your position on this.

3 minutes ago, krikkitbot said:

So how do I encourage breaking from this "tradition" without ruffling too many feathers? I think that out of a troop of about 20 boys there are about 3 families who do that. 

Explain to the parents what the point of tenting as a patrol is about. Ask for their help.

2 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

In my experience 100% of those "special case scouts" never stay much past year one. 

Right now there are two in my troop. They are tenting with their patrols now. Both have unusual families.

I used to never see this but now I do. I think kids are less mature at a given age then they used to be even 10 years ago. A friend is a third grade teacher and she's a bit shocked at kids that are belligerent to their parents. They just tell their parents what to do. Maybe this is an anomaly. I doubt if they will have problems in a tent but they have obvious social skill issues.

This is the part I didn't like about being SM. And yet I got some wonderful memories from it (and some bad ones as well). I would have sat such a scout down and told him that he doesn't get my signature if the younger scouts don't look up to him. Actually, every scout got that speech at their life SM conference. That was my bottom line definition of being an Eagle. If the younger scouts don't look up to the Eagle scouts then there's no point in Eagle. That's my view, so everyone that disagrees, let's just agree to disagree.

So I'd talk to the scout about this and honestly ask him what Eagle means to him. If he says he's doing it because his dad thinks it's important then I would offer to talk to his dad so the scout didn't have to stress over this. I'd also talk to the scout about ways he could still have fun and develop that respect among the younger scouts. For one scout that meant being the PL. The scout was not happy with this but in the end he really came around. He loved working with the younger scouts. In college he took on all sorts of leadership positions and he credits it all to me making him do it for eagle. I still see him. He tells me how it was the kick in the pants he needed. This kid thinks the world of scouting, now. I also had one scout, well  his mom, take this to the supreme court council so her son could get eagle even though he couldn't care less about scouts, or anything it stood for. Turns out his dad is an eagle and never showed up to anything. I first met him at his son's eagle project and I had to repeatedly tell him to let his son handle it.

Of course, all this means I had to do some things that are not allowed. I used the scout spirit requirement. That's vague enough but not really. What it really says is a scout needs to be cheerful, helpful, and all that, for only six months. The rest of the time a kid can be a sullen teenager, and still get the title Eagle, for life. Again, this is my opinion and I have no desire to argue about it. I'm no longer SM so I can no longer abuse the system.

One job of the SM is to motivate scouts to do their best. That's not so easy. I just read a sermon from a very well known British rabbi, Jonathan Sacks, and he talks about anger and when anger is good as well as bad. Anger is only good in the context of teaching someone, of letting them know when they've made a mistake. The example was when Moses broke the 10 commandments after seeing everyone dancing around the golden calf. His anger had a profound impact on everyone. Ideally I would be as influential as Moses and all I would have to do is tell a scout I was angry at how he was doing to motivate him, but to be honest, I ain't no Moses. For some scouts I could motivate them by telling them they disappointed me. But some could care less. The more self centered they are the harder it is to convince them to care. So I changed the meaning of the scout spirit requirement and held the scouts to a high standard.

@gblotter, you need to decide for yourself what you are going to do. All I can say is, whatever your decision, keep it consistent with everyone and let everyone know about it before hand.

59 minutes ago, krikkitbot said:

What do you do about the scouts who will only sleep in their parent's tent? Do you set up 3 areas?

Not three areas. One for the adults and one for each patrol. The reason for a scout to sleep with a parent is that the scout is not mature enough. There are all sorts of reasons. I see it and I understand it. There are very few scouts that want this and by making them go find their parents they see the difference between them and the other scouts. They know they're a bit different but they are honestly not ready. It's a decision for them. It took a whole year for one scout to let go of mom but now he's doing fine. And mom was so ready for him to get to that point.

As for distance, 100 yards would be nice, if you have it. The bigger issue is training PLs to politely tell intruders (adults or scouts from other patrols) to leave. That's the whole point of the 100 yards.

BTW, congratulations!

13 minutes ago, qwazse said:

They caught on that day that boy leadership included making good on the promise of scouting -- for everyone.

Hmm. Do we have the same scouts?

We just got a new SPL and he's much more enthusiastic then the last one. Every decision the last one made was to do less. The new one is nice to watch. I pulled him aside last night and told him I really appreciated his attitude, both the "let's do this" and having fun at the same time. And to think he was one of the biggest pains when he was younger.

49 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Kill things! Is that like saying knives are designed to kill things? Or the SUV that kills drivers of other cars.

TNT is also a tool. A tool you need a special license to use.

This whole discussion of guns is not moving forward. While the constitution talks about rights it doesn't talk much about responsibilities. We, as a society, have a responsibility towards the poor. We also have a responsibility regarding safety. Both of those responsibilities come from the idea that every life has value. So, when drunk driving causes roughly 25 deaths every day there is a very strong attempt to solve that safety issue. It's not just laws. Parents talk to their kids, there are designated drivers, etc. Nobody has banned driving or alcohol but there is an attempt to solve this problem.

I read that 96 people a day die from guns. And yet any attempt to solve this is being blocked because of our constitutional rights. What about our responsibilities towards life, as described in the first pages of the bible? The same bible that so many of the people that are fighting for our rights believe in.  Do our rights justify ignoring all those deaths? Just as I don't think cars and alcohol should be banned I don't think guns should be banned. But there are some very simple laws that could be passed that would reduce the number of deaths. And yet we can't even agree on any of that.

The NRA, up until the late 70's, seemed to understand all of this. There were laws restricting guns. The NRA was known for teaching gun safety. The NRA lost its way and all they do is try to shut down conversation. If they were effectively making changes to improve gun safety it would be another story, they'd be more believable. But just passing it all off as mental health issues is just a lame excuse. I don''t believe they really care about any of those deaths. To say those people would just find another way to kill themselves is a very sad comment on our society.

Yet I do believe our society will do the right thing, eventually.

Mechanical hard drives have fairly strong magnets in them. It's probably more likely that you'd find a car when lost. Pull out the car speaker. A cell phone does have a battery and using that to make a magnet? With the head phone wires? (Hopefully not bluetooth) We're talking McGyver but the scouts might like it. Everyone I know that has a snowmobile knows how to pull the spark plug and start a fire with it. There are magnetic sensors in most cell phones. You just need the app to read them. I know, not much fun.

I agree with everyone's comments that it's not the MBs and ranks, it's how they are run. That is coming from the expectations of everyone involved. The expectations from national down through the districts, the scouters, and the parents is that advancement is school work with a little bit of outdoors thrown in.

12 hours ago, fred johnson said:

IMHO, the advancement program should be changed to something that is meaningful and interesting to the scouts.

I think there's an easy solution to that. Remove all the describe and discuss stuff. Assume that if the scout is interested then some day he'll go and read about the describe and discuss stuff on his own when he's mature enough. In the meantime just do more. Rather than talk about the food pyramid in cooking MB, cook an omelet, cook soup from scratch, cook pancakes from scratch, cook stir fry from scratch, cook bread from scratch, and cook brownies from scratch. i.e., the cooking MB should involve a lot of cooking and eating good food. Period. That's what the scout will remember. If he has fun doing it then he will seek out more on his own. That's what will get him hooked on it.

But that's just MBs. The real issue is refocusing on the one main method: fun with a purpose.

36 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

As I said in my post, I staffed at one of my councils day camp last year (I was paid, just made the cut off). I stated that it depends on the position I get it if can go or not.

Ive talked to people who staffed a summer camp and they got paid less then I did, and they worked there for around 2-3 years. I understand that the camp pays for your lodging, meals, etc. but like come on.

This is just so I have a idea of what I could do if I can get a week off at the day camp. 

Fair enough. I'm not sure where you live but start looking in neighboring councils for camps with programs for older scouts. Many of them take solo scouts and mix them together. You and your buddy could have a lot of fun. Make it an adventure! Even if you're not old enough to drive you can get someone to drop you off and pick you up. My friend and I did just that when we were about your age.

Or, if you're okay with using computers, just go back to packmaster until scoutbook is in better shape. They have good software. Tell the cubmaster you've got it, as she has more important things to do than deal with computers.

Scoutbook has become a third rail item at roundtable.

1 hour ago, ItsBrian said:

Most camps I've been to have like 3-4 different water/boating merit badges. Then, usually only around 30 mins to a hour few times during the week called "open boating or open swimming"

This is probably more common than not. I don't like the focus on MBs. How about take the fun merit badges again and talk to the counselors about what you're really there for and see if they can help you out.

Another option: Why not work at camp? You might not get paid, because of your age, but you can have a lot of fun. If the staff is good then you can make some life time friends.

Try going to a summer camp that has a program for older scouts.

Do you have friends your age in your troop?

Yep, cubs sucks.

9 minutes ago, qwazse said:

if I knew how to stop that train wreck, I'd write a book on it.

Exactly the book I'd like the BSA to work on. It would help all their programs. It's what I wanted from Woodbadge. I'm experimenting but I think one really important key to getting good leadership is a group that understands, really understands, teamwork. I'm not talking about kindergarten level play fair. It's prove you can do your part before we even let you camp with us. The BSA model has always been to first develop leadership and then teamwork will follow. I think it's the other way around for scouts. Given that environment I think the natural leaders would easily come out of their shells.

I think venturing is the canary in the coal mine for boy scouts. Venturing has it much tougher than scouts. The 14 age limit is hard because kids have a harder time making friends after that age, most girls that join don't have outdoor experience, and worst of all, that's the age where kids start pulling away from their parents. The result is parents are less involved and nobody is around to pass it on to. SMs pass a troop onto the next SM. I never see a crew advisor pass things on to another. It's also hard to recruit because the age is past where a group of kids will easily join. The result is that crews fail, just like girl scout troops, after the adult that started it is done. This is because the adult is typically the real leader. They aren't the advisor.

This would all not be an issue if the kids that joined venturing had good leadership skills and they could sustain it. Or maybe even if venturing had a good method of teaching leadership it could work. Let's just assume the BSA really worked on that and got it going. It would also do a ton of good for the boy scout program. The problem is the boy scout program can run with adult leadership. It may not be great but it is sustainable.

Last week I was visiting another troop and they also have a crew. I watched that meeting and it is exactly what I described. The adult was running everything. There was zero indication of youth leadership. There was only one adult. It will collapse. My daughter wanted to join a crew years ago, the adults wouldn't let her lead, she walked. After years of the same couple of adults leading they finally folded.

How about we assume it's exactly half and instead talk about the large difference between cubs and scouts. There's a lot more maturity required of scouts than cubs. They have to deal with people problems because the adults won't be there to fix everything. They will have to be more self motivated. They will have to do more outdoor activities. It's harder. For a lot of scouts it's more fun. Some just want to sit in a classroom environment. I hate to say it but if you're not bored with cub scouts by the time you leave, if you're not really anxious or excited to move on, or if cubs is just really comfortable, then scouts will be a shock. My understanding is that webelos is supposed to be that bridge. I don't see it, though. The webelos program is essentially the same. Given that the adults running it likely don't understand scouts that well I'm not too surprised. I mentioned this once before but I think it might be good to have webelos dens meet regularly with a troop. If the troop's patrols really are independent then this won't impact their program at all and the webelos could get a good understanding of what scouts is about. Their parents could also learn about scouts and get a break from being a den leader. It takes more than one visit to get comfortable with a troop.

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

He wants to take old, out of date computers, refurbish them, and give them to local organizations that help people get back on their feet. Apparently he saw a Youtuber do something similar, except with new computers, not refurbs.

My initial thought was,  THIS IS CRAZY! {emphasis).  But what I said was, "remember the purpose of the project is to show leadership. You need to plan, organize and  execute the project.How are you going to do that?" His response was rational and doable. Ijust hope itpasses muster withthe PTB

I think it's a good idea. I can see leadership in coaxing people into donating old machines, testing, reassembling, loading software, and also teaching people how to use the computers.

Linux is your friend. It will run on any old computer. There are linux user groups all over that can help.