MaScout

Our Troop invites 1st year Webelos to join us on one campout, and it is structured carefully: close to home, simple activities, usually Webelos stay only one night, not two, etc. Then 2nd year Webelos have multiple opportunities to join the troop as appropriate. The 1st yrs like it because they DO get to go camping with "the big boys". The 2nd yrs like it because they get to do quite a bit more, so it's something to look forward to, and they don't have "the little guys" with them all the time.

I carry my DE's office, home, & cell number with me at all times. He gives his cell number out at all trainings and it is on his business card.

Our troop & geographic area always had "short-necked" buzzards, not sharp-toothed, so I never questioned it...just thought they were handicapped or had them tucked in...

While I don't think either one should have been smoking, how can you be sure the one was a minor? Because he LOOKED under 18? He might have been an 18-year-old ASM (or 18+ but looked younger)...Old enough to smoke legally. Doesn't make it right or ethical, but still legal. Funscout is right that you weren't really in a position to say anything, though.

Mostly, I agree with The Scout about who should be doing the uniform inspection. But the same as when the SPL asked the adults to present the flags, the adults might be the ones asked to perform the uniform inspection. Youth leaders should be encouraged to do this, but in the end, it should be performed by whomever is asked.

Right on, briant! Our troop usually inspects adults at the same time the youth are checked. In fact I can't remember the last time we did one without the other. And then, one night, the SPL asked several adult leaders to present the flags! Just for kicks. Some of them really spluttered, but we did them, and did fine. It really puts things in perspective when adults are held to the same standards as the youth.

We give them a choker with specific colors for specific things...you can get a Native American to tell you about the directions or you can use the color things I've seen with Christian bracelets, or you can put together something you want with pony beads & make up what the colors stand for...

Anne -- there is a chasm of difference in discussing for learning and chastising or finger pointing. Your question is an example of wanting to learn so we don't make the same mistake. "What were they thinking?" types of questions are the ones I was thinking of...

We don't know why they waited an hour before calling anyone. We can only project & theorize at this time. I'm thinking on the lines of: The leaders were frantically trying to save the boys. They probably didn't have a cell phone as either it would get wet or there was no service there anyway. Perhaps they didn't want to risk more boys by sending them for help. Perhaps they didn't think they could spare the older, more experienced Scouts or leaders as they were utilizing all qualified people in the immediate & frantic search. The hour delay has me stymied, too. However, if they have secured legal counsel, it seems like they would have been told to keep their mouths shut, which would seem reasonable, regardless of "fault".

I am interested to hear the whole story, and truly hope we can all learn from this. Perhaps what we shouldn't do, but more importantly, what we should do...

A tragic event, to matter how you look at it. However, before we get into any heavy finger-pointing, (not to say we have, but this group IS good at that ) let's all think how we'd feel if we were one of the Scout Leaders who was responsible for those boys, let's remember a "Scout is kind", and while we pray for that lad's family, let's not forget the Scouts who witnessed this tragedy nor the adult leaders. While we struggle to understand how this could have happened, and try to learn from it so it doesn't happen to us, we need to realize it DID happen, and the only thing that can come out of negative comments now is more hurt. Yes: discuss & learn from this, but be kind & do not judge, lest ye also be judged.

YIS (& mourning), Ma

OK -- OGE wins

As adults, we need to remember that some of the most trying times will be remembered with great fondness by the Scouts. We've had three extreme weather situations that come readily to mind, which created great memories for the boys...

1) We fondly refer to as the "Mud Fest"...say that term and everyone in the District knows what you are referring to. 4-wheel drive vehicles were getting buried up to the axles. But we had a great time.

2) Rained 15 inches in a day. We had to cross a creek that had no bridge to get to the campground. The phrase "God willing & the creek don't rise" took on all new meaning...the creek was rising rapidly. Troops had to evacuate NOW, leaving all camping gear where it stood. Tents leaked, cooking was difficult, and a good time was had by all.

3) Probably the most memorable: Our District hosts a tree re-plant for a forested area which had an extensive fire not so many years ago. One year we had a bilzzard of mammoth proportions. Many of the Scouts were stranded in towns on their way to the event. Those who were there were moved out of their campsites and into the historical buildings at the rebuilt Ft. Robinson. There were wall-to-wall scouts & leaders. No-one could get to town for more food, so the Fort opened their dining hall (which wasn't restocked for the season yet), and we pooled troop resources with what the Fort had available, and fed 500 people for several extra days. The team spirit and memories were awesome. All troops called parents to let them know we were okay. We had a special patch made up with a scout holding onto a tree shovel and the Scout is being blown parallel to the ground.

With foresight and planning for the worst, things like this can be weathered with no major concerns. Maybe situations aren't ideal, but we survive. And we create memories to talk about around the campfire for years...

Then a tragedy like the canoeing accident occurs. All in the Scouting community are saddened and humbled. I pray we can all learn from this. In spite of that, we need to decide if we are going to mollycoddle our sons or allow them to grow into men. It's awfully hard to let go sometimes. But that is part of what Scouting is about...teaching them how to be self-accountable in the world, then standing back & letting them go.

Man I love this Scouting stuff...Ma

In keeping with Philmont's "Red Roof Inn's", perhaps the roofs should be RED.

While I agree that we could argue about something with more point to it, the initial question was asked in all sincerity, and should be answered with respect. I don't know the answer. I know there are many things that are done that aren't specifically disallowed in the G2SS, but they still aren't smart to do.

We make catapults & the boys get to sling water at the leaders of their choice. I don't have a problem with this. It encourages them to make sure their lashings are good! I don't think I'd have even questioned it would be okay to use squirt guns.

What is the G2SS's intent? To stop anything which might remotely promote something dangerous? How can it stop things they haven't even thought of? Is it being subversive to use squirt guns just because they aren't specifically disallowed? CHILL! Go paint an outhouse.

Then there are those of us who are "unintentional miscreants"! Anybody out there besides me, after attending several BSA meetings in a week (in uniform--yes, "full", "field", "Class A"...whatever YOU want to call it, I was in uniform), who have gone to a football game, and while standing there in school colors, salutes? I usually get sheepish. Those around me know what the problem is. Sometimes my husband has to tug on my elbow...

By utilizing a contract, it appears your troop has already tried to avert some of the problems. Our Troop (and this doesn't help for what has already happened) stays on top of POR's. If they are not fulfilling their responsibilities (read: "active", "participating", "serving", "showing Scout spirit", etc.), they are conferenced. If the inactivity isn't corrected, the boy is removed from his position. Period. There are only a few positions which are elected rather than appointed. The appointed ones are easy. The elected ones are taken care of by a new election. You can allow for this in your troop election guidelines: you would need to have a new election if your SPL dropped out for some reason, wouldn't you? No position, no time fulfilled.

Haven't any of you heard...Be careful or somebody will get their eye poked out with a sharp stick! Now THAT is the root of the problem!

Randall S from NH -- I received your email requesting a copy of this game...I need you to pm me with your email address, then I can send it. I cannot attach it to a pm from here.

Ma Scout

ScoutNut--I don't know where in the Midwest you are from, as that covers a LOT of area, but...Longs Peak Council has an AWESOME Cub Camp. It is located near Red Feather Lakes west of Loveland, CO (which is north of Denver a little bit). There are three theme areas...Fort Unfug, Camp Castlewalker, and Everitt Seaport. The areas look like what they are called...a fort, a castle, and a seaport. They have an awesome program, nice tents, shower houses, decent food, ... They have programs for Partner & Pal, 3-day camps, and 4 or 5-day camps for the Webelos.

Vicki says, "Because of what we do as an avocation, I would imagine we'll find the great majority of our kids do chores. I think I am a Scouter because I hold these ideals (was raised with 'em and think they're a pretty good standard) and therefore am raising my children that way."

Yeah! I wanted to say that, but couldn't figure out how in 500 words or less, so I left it out of my post. Well said, Vicki.

45 miles each way. Many travel farther. I don't go very often. Is it a matter of committment over distance? Commitment to what or to whom? My first commitment is on a local level. So, if my children are involved in a band concert on RT night, I will go there. If Bible Study is the same night, I will go there. If a Scout event is the same night, I will go there. Sometimes there are GREAT programs at RT! (Sometimes not.) But my faith, my family, and my Troop will come in ahead RT every time. And guess what? I'm not sorry.

Off topic, but I agree with Eamonn 110%!!! Venturing is NOT Boy Scouts! We are part of the BSA umbrella, just as Cub Scouts are. Our Venture Crew is a "High Adventure" crew. When a District (Boy Scout) event lends itself to our focus, we consider attending. However, WE DO OUR OWN THING. We like that we have access to BSA property for HA activities. But we are not Boy Scouts, we do not operate like a troop, and we have our own training.

Yeah...that writer probably hasn't been in a LOT of homes or "types" of homes...maybe only judging from his own?

Over Easter break, my sons mowed about 4 acres of lawn, repaired a mile of 4-strand barbed wire fence, worked cattle for a full day, then tore out some landscaping and cleaned the barn. They were ready to go back to school! I have all sons. Trust me...they clean the toilets -- to MY standards! They aim a LOT straighter than kids who haven't learned that respect. (Incidentally, boys who visit & get it all over my walls -- they clean that up!)

My sons vacuum, take out the trash, do dishes, cook, wash & fold laundry, they can even iron... Do they like it? NO! Do I? NO! But they will be young adults living on their own. They need to learn survival skills. And they usually are cheerful about it. Probably because we aren't sitting on our duffs while making them do it.

We are a family unit -- a team. When Mom & Dad both work, they have to pitch in at home. There is nothing wrong in asking them to help. I work sporadically: I'm a substitute teacher, so generally work when I want. However, sometimes I long-term sub or take a temporary office position, so work on a daily basis. But when we put in long hours, they see that, and we often don't even have to ask...they look around & do what needs doing.

Initially, it took longer to teach them new skills than it would have to do it ourselves. But what would they have learned? They would be Nintendo-Potatoes. Besides...the faster we get the work done, the sooner we can go PLAY! Fish, camp, hike, ...

I am firmly straddling the fence on this one! In our troop, if siblings didn't come along, we often wouldn't have enough adult supervision to hold the outing. In general, I don't mind. I like them to get the bug! Just as long as they don't get burned out...

I agree that girls, especially, can be a major distraction. Our CC NEVER brings her daughter along, and on the rare occaision she stops by when we are camping locally, her mom tries to get her outta there pronto.

Now...another story. Once upon a time we had a female foster child. She had been molested by her father, and was sexually active at age 12. We had a last minute snafu and unthinkingly took her along. That lasted for about 2 hours. She never made it into a tent, but that was only because I had ahold of her arm! My husband & I were both actively involved in the outing, or one of us would have left with her. I made some panicked phone calls and got her picked up. From there out, my husband attended the campouts & I stayed home with her, unless we could find a trusted place for her to stay. (Husband couldn't stay home with her, as she made advances to him too.) Wow! That is an extreme example, but is a vivid depiction of what CAN go wrong.

But in this case, I'd try to be understanding. Maybe have CC talk to them in an understanding way - we know your plans fell through, but could you try to make sure it isn't a regular occurence?

Ahhh...now that depends on where you live! I drive an SUV, and am not likely to be giving it up soon. However, mine is NOT a luxury vehicle! In the winter, we need it to make it to the highway. On the farm, we pull things with it (like farm equipment) and haul things in it (like calves). So even though I drive the higher mileage car when I can, the SUV will be around. Just recruit a farm kid for your Scout troop!

Ma Scout

We have used a venture patrol and it worked quite well. We are also peripherally involved in a Venture Crew that is just starting.

When the boys had a venture patrol, YES, they were somewhat elitist. These were the boys who routinely participated in high adventure. This allowed that group to have Patrol outings that did not involve trying to make everything work for the less experienced scouts. However, on regular troop outings, they accomodated the younger boys' needs and were generous about helping them grow in Scouting. At troop meetings, they worked with the younger Scouts. At patrol time, they had their patrol meeting, lending as many needed "Vulture" members as needed for instruction...

They had the (2nd) best food -- the adults had the best, and they lurked around hoping to find leftovers, hence the name vultures! The younger Scouts wanted to know how they made it work, so they would invite them into their site to observe. (It mostly had to do with spending more time cooking than bickering over who got to measure the water for the food.) They'd help in their sites when needed. They became a goal for the younger boys to try to attain. We no longer have a venture patrol, and I feel a real loss.

We are trying to get involved in a newly formed crew. The advisor & I (the new CC) have differing visions. We are working on meshing these 2. However, the crew just doesn't seem to be coagulating. Can't decide on what to do & how to do it. Probably has to do with the adults differing visions... Advisor wants adult-led. I say let THEM decide how often to have meetings & outings, and THEY organize the outings with whatever guidance they need...but we don't line up drivers, buy food, or anything...

Ahh...it'll all come out in the end. I just gave up 2 of my "hour-a-week" volunteer positions, so have freed up close to 20 hours per week...maybe I can put more ooomph into getting the crew on track.

not to mention ida ben 2 late anyway...