MaScout

The discussion of "punks" in another thread got me to thinking about how careful we need to be about how we judge the image we have of others. Our perception is molded in great part by our experiences. As Scouters, we need to rise above that...

In high school, my eldest wore his hair long (like waaay below his shoulders) & sported a full beard. Why? Because he could. He took a lot of flack for it. As his parents, so did we. We were always very supportive of his choices. He didn't drink, smoke, do drugs, vandalize... He was (and is) a "good kid". He was a leader in his class and on the football field. He was an outstanding leader in band and Scouts. He is now in the Coast Guard and has very little hair on his head or face. Is he any different because of the amount of hair he sports? NO!

So when we see a lad with his pants sagging, a "weird" hair-do, or body piercing, do those things automatically make him a "punk"? NO! It's what's on the inside that counts. Take time to get to know the lad. If he's in Scouts, he's most likely not ALL bad! Encourage the other adults in your unit to do the same. Be that lad's advocate; you'll be his friend for life.

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here, for the most part, but just some thoughts.

I love this Scouting stuff...Ma

(An aside...here I was, thinking how I'd done so well on cutting down on my responses, and I log on this morning to reply to a gazillion messages! ;P )

This person's position, coupled with the wife's position IS a tough situation to deal with, but this program is FOR and ABOUT the youth. Figure out how, but DEAL with it. NOW! I want to share 2 stories about similar situations, which may explain why I am so adamant about it.

1) CC wanted to attend Philmont on hike. (Wife is SA.) Youth said, "CC was potty-trained at gun point." (This is NOT a compliment!) CC has an opinion, he yells it at people right in their face, he disrespects youth leaders, and generally wants to run the program HIS way. The Scouts ultimately said, "If he goes, we don't." Now, we could have allowed him to go as an adult, but then the only youth we would have had would have been his. As SM, I had to tell him, "No thank you, we have enough adults." (Trust me, it wasn't that simple.)

2) An adult (not our troop) who had a history of yelling at & disrespecting youth was NOT asked to stay home. SPL told all boys at summer camp to keep all food OUT of tents & hanging in a tree due to skunks (per instructions at SPL daily meeting). Adult (who was not in camp when instructions were told) became upset because a day pack was hanging in a tree instead of stowed in tent. When Scout tried to explain, adult became enraged at the "disrespect" & grabbed the Scout around the throat & began to choke Scout. One other adult present & 3 Scouts pulled him off. He saw nothing wrong with his behavior. (It took several adults to stop the father of this Scout from taking care of the situation.) This man is NOT allowed at any Scout events, and was brought up on assault charges. The point is -- you never know when they will snap. Guard your Scouts! Before it happens! Please.

Ma

I thought about this overnight, then when I got on to share my thoughts, Ed beat me to it!

It is the SM's job to make sure a program is presented that promotes and enables advancement. It is the Scout's job to take advantage of those opportunities. The SM cannot make a Scout attend meetings or outings nor make him pay attention or learn or participate. The SM cannot "make" a Scout DO anything he doesn't have a mind to do...nor is it the SM's job to bully a Scout into doing things he doesn't want to do. (Think school here -- a teacher assigns a report for a child to write. The purpose is learning, the result is a grade. Can the teacher "make" the child write a paper that will earn an "A" the first time?)

Ma

What Michelle said!!!

Our PLC regularly schedules several activities every year that are "invite a friend" activities (read "recruitment activities"). We make sure these are representative of our regular activities, which are of course exciting and fun. Our council insurance covers them if this is being used as a recruitment tool.

Some activities we have included: College football game, canoeing (make sure they pass the BSA swimmer's test!), night at the movies, rock climbing, fishing, and more. Really, we set our calendar, then the boys determine which activities they want to use for recruitment...

Also, at our January CoH, we have a slide show highlighting the activities from the previous year. We like to invite extra people to watch this. It is a GREAT recruitment tool! We are a small troop (average membership of 10) and we have picked up several new Scouts from this venue.

Our council camps say activity uniforms for flags & evening meals, & field uniforms for all other activities. Our troop has a tradition of also wearing activity uniform for church services. Now, our council camps are very lenient on "proper" uniforming...the uniform shirt suffices for activity uniform and ANY Scout T-shirt (Day Camp T-Shirts included) paired with non-BSA pants or shorts is considered "field" uniform. I know that is not "correct" but most of the Scouts out here don't own BSA pants or shorts and no-one seems to care. I take care to model the correct way to wear both activity & field uniform but will not criticize those who don't wear the pants or shorts.

Our council sells left-over Day Camp T-Shirts for about $2-$4. That might be something for you to check into for inexpensive Scout T-Shirts. We also have serveral boys who have amassed a great number of Scouting related shirts over the years (camp staff, NYLT, Jambo, yadda, yadda) who loan them to boys who need a couple more shirts for a couple days.

National now makes short BSA socks -- the kind that comes just above the shoe line -- you know...the ones boys like to wear now. They are a white sock over the foot but have the traditional red & green stripes at the very top, which just show at the top of the shoe. If you want to get your Scouts into BSA socks with less of a fight, these are a viable alternative.

As to what counts at your council camp -- a phone call would be your best bet.

We talk to each eligible boy individually before the night of elections, also. We explain the process, what OA is really about, and perhaps a little of what goes on at the Ordeal. If we have a candidate we don't feel is ready for some reason, we discuss it with the Scout. We have yet to have an unready Scout leave his name in the election pool. Our "not yet ready" boys have always asked us to remove their name from the list.

We also ask each boy give a short blurb on WHY they think the troop members should vote for them. This is not mandatory, but it really gives each candidate a time for some serious introspection and gives other troop members insight into what makes the lad tick.

I'd prefer to keep the Scout & lose the Scouter. It sounds like the JASM handled the situation well. It sounds like the SA did not. And if he's blowing off the handle like this over things so trivial, how do you know when he will really blow his stack and hit or harm a Scout? (I've seen it happen with hotheaded adults.)

We have had a couple instances in the last couple years where Scouts openly disobeyed or questioned the youth leadership's authority for a variety of reasons. The one that gets my goat is, "My parents said the only one I have to listen to is the SM." GRRR! Anyway, unless the youth's direction is waaaaay out of line, I back him 110%. I generally ask something to the effect of, "What did your PL/ASPL/SPL say? Then do it." Or, "If they said it, it is the same as if I said it." I have made it clear to the one's who "only have to listen to me" that my instruction is to listen to their youth leaders. And that's an order. If the youth leader has handled something not well, that needs corrected in the future, we counsel privately (in public) about how they might handle things differently in the future, but the adults try to support them whenever possible. It reinforces the leadership concept.

The adults should support the youth leadership and back them up, and take "failures" and help the youth turn them into "opportunities for improvement". I would be talking to the committee & CoR about having the SA take a leave of absence for a while or at least talking to him about what behaviors will not be tolerated. What he did IS ABUSE!

Dozy -- While you consider the 2-deep leadership to not be a concern as you and your husband are available to team up...I caution you against relying on this. While it is technically "legal" to have a husband-wife team be the 2-deep, my husband & I avoid this situation whenever possible. Think WHY we utilize 2-deep leadership. If any accusations of wrong-doing should be made against either of you, the other's testimony wouldn't hold much water...Just a thought. Ma

1) You SHOULD be able to order your own set of training material out of the catalog. However, since the District undoubtedly has this, it is an expense you shouldn't have to bear.

2) Ask your DE and/or your District Training Chair for a copy. Ask again. Tell them you will wait for them to find it. Sit down & wait.

3) If all else fails, pm me with your snail mail address & I'll mail you a copy of mine. I may have the tapes here, too. If I do, I'll include a copy of them, as well. (If you mention this offer during #2 above & indicate it is a pity you have to get this material from a scouter half-way across the country, you may get results.)

Ma Scout

This camp does offer the opportunity to tour the Black Hills, too. While most things in "tourist trap" areas are expensive, there are lower cost ideas there, too. At Crazy Horse Monument, any Scout troop who shows up in uniform is admitted FREE (Nice lighting ceremony, too). At Mt. Rushmore, there is no charge, unless you want to park close -- then you pay $8 for parking. There are many displays and the night lighting ceremony is tremendous! Uniformed Troops often raise & lower the flag for the ceremony. Other lower cost areas are Wind Cave, Needles Park, Evans Plunge, Mammoth Site in Hot Springs. There are numerous caves to visit -- 2 of the other very popular ones are Jewel Cave & Rushmore Cave. If you are lucky and eat at a little park on the way to Rushmore Cave, this neat man with an awesome rock collection may come out & visit! Reptile Gardens, Bear Country, and Cosmos are some of our troop's favorites, too, but a little more expensive. If you want to go to the Black Hills & just tour, send me a pm & I can give you the number for an awesome camp -- Camp Volunteer -- run by a Baptist Church. They allow groups to reserve & use it -- cabins, showers, kitchen, meeting room. They especially like it if you do some service work while there.

Ahhh...then in the midst of this discussion, the following occured:

Last night my oldest son's friend stopped by to visit. (My son is sailing in the middle of the Sargasso Sea somewhere right now...friend stopped to visit the rest of us.) The lad is 19. While talking to me, his cell phone rang. He looked at who it was, & stopped talking to ask if it was all right if he answered his phone. I said yes, and walked away to give him some privacy. He asked the person on the other end of the line if he could call them back in a while. He was off in less than 15 seconds! YAY!

Well...I use my cell phone A LOT! But I agree -- manners need to be observed. I "don't work" -- I put in 35-60 hours per week as a volunteer, substitute teach, work on our farm, and help out in a local grain elevator as needed. I have 3 sons who are active in sports, drama, etc. I am almost never home. My cell is about the only way for people to reach me. Due to my husband's profession & liability issues, we don't have an answering machine at home. I utilize voice mail on my cell. I use "hands-free" when I am travelling. It is "understood" that if you are talking to me on my cell & the line suddenly goes dead, something came up -- I had to tend to the business of driving, my appointment is called, etc. I'll get back to you. My family & associates often use text messages to say "call me when you can -- not urgent". When I call someone's cell, I say, "This is...can you talk or do you need to call me back later?" If I am in an appointment, I don't answer the phone. If I am having a conversation with someone, I only answer it if it is my son who is in the military (and I only get to talk to every few months) or my aging & ailing parents. I always excuse myself first, however, and explain what the emergency is. I turn off the ringer. I keep calls short. When in campsites, it is definitely only for emergencies. I turn it OFF & check it a couple times a day "just in case"... We did have a Scout's home burn down while we were at camp one time...VERY glad we found out before we returned home! So...to ban them or not to ban them...that is the 6 million dollar question. It really depends on your situation...

Who is the MB Counselor? Is it the SM? Is there another one available? Will that MB Counselor approve the silo?

The MB Counselor is the one who determines if the requirements for a MB have been met, not the SM.

we've done plenty of native American themed crossings -- OA supervised or otherwise. These go over really well. We've done a "bridging" for Wolf to Bear, Bear to Webelos, etc., too, similar to OA -- used lanterns & had den chiefs escort over those worthy. We've also done "Zulu warrior" graduations -- all rest of pack stand and sing zulu warrior song while stamping feet & clapping. We have painted rocks yellow & orange, then lit them with a black light & had those brave enough cross them. If they are worthy, they will not be burned. Our DE experienced this one. He said he about lost it when one of the little guys sat down & said he could feel how hot those rocks were! His shoes were even smokin'!

Subdued lighting always adds to effect. Lanterns or tiki torches are awe-inspiring.

Definitely make sure you use the heavy-duty bags -- no scrimping here! If you use frozen onions & peppers (or whaterver else), you don't end up with al dente products, and you don't have to pre-cook. This also works with hobo dinners -- and you can just put a twistie tie on them & throw them back in a freezer!

We have also used this method for heating soup. If we are arriving in a campsite late we sometimes have each boy bring his soup in a baggie, then we toss it into a pot of boiling water. Quick, hot soup. And you don't have to have someone on "pot watch" so supper doesn't scorch while tents are going up.

I have given Eagle blankets, a nifty silver-colored coin (engraved), and a sliver eagle coin (about $20). For boys in our troop, I handcraft a notebook for their Eagle memorabilia & put all their commendations in plastic sheets. One boy didn't have a "sewer" in the house, so I sewed all his collected patches on a blanket.

Our troop provides a NESA membership & a complete set of Eagle "stuff" -- neckerchief, tie slide, medal, badge, & parent pins/tie tacks.

Our council has a website and all our districts are REQUIRED to have a website link from that page. Our district webmasters are routinely trained by council on how & what & how often & & &...

Have you contacted West Point? I know the Air Force Academy has a designated spot for Scouts to camp when we attend their campus for anything. I would suspect WP would too.

Yes, there is an "elitism" in our council, too.

I took Woodbadge. I learned. I refuse to be a part of the elitism faction. I seldom wear my beads & less often the neckerchief. When asked why I don't by one of the "good-ole-boys" (which DOES include females), I simply tell them I took the training so that I could become a better leader, not to advertise. That's also why I don't wear all the knots I've earned on one shirt, nor do I wear all the other training paraphernalia or medals I've earned.

How you react to it is a personal choice.

BoR's are to have three registered committee members on them.

Parents are not to participate in on their own child's BoR.

So...you actually need FOUR committee members if they are all parents.

When we submit multiple rank advancements, and we only have 4 parents/committee members available, we put all the boys on one advancement report and put in four signatures. I know there are only 3 lines...so improvise. Write smaller. Write above or below the line. This indicates that there were "non-parent" members on the BoR.

I asked about "why" there is a spot for the title of the person submitting the report. Too many parents were getting ahold of the Advancement Reports and submitting un-earned awards for their sons...go figure. Anyway, this is a check to make sure the one submitting the report is actually authorized to do so. (Alledgedly, "they" verify this information. )

Or just take a tuck at the top seam & tack it down. Then when/if he DOES get bigger, just take it out and, voila! it fits!

Do you need the female advisor? Is there a female advisor willing to take her place who is in much better physical condition? Could her position be filled with a youth? Youth take first dibs...

Our troop turned out in droves this morning at 0600 to help the American Legion put flags and markers at the gravesites of the veterans buried in our local cemetery. No-one complained and they all seemed to enjoy assisting in this way and honoring our veterans.

Thank you to ALL the service men and women out there who have helped keep our country free...free in speech, religion, on & on. I am humbled.

Ma

Another post before I run off to play again...I've been gone fishing. Next I'm off to a college graduation, then to see my niece at Lake Powell. I wonder if I'll be in total withdrawal by the time I get back to this forum?

Lots of good ideas here. Thanks to all for taking the time to post your thoughts.

District & Council Advancement Chairs have been apprised of the situation, as has UC & DC, COR & IH. I think it would be a good idea to have a law enforcement officer speak with the lad. I have told him what could happen, but do think the police would have much more of an impact.

This boy does NOT have a history of such behavior. It appears to be out of the blue & an isolated incident. I believe this will put a stop to the behavior, as long as it is handled severely enough. I'm looking for that fine line between growth & destruction... With this boy it could go either way. Sure, if I pressed charges, he wouldn't get his Eagle & he'd certainly learn a lesson. But I'm not sure that is the lesson I want him to learn. Perhaps (and this is the route I am taking unless I can be convinced otherwise) he will learn that what he did was stupid & could have resulted in terrible consequences, but that there IS some forgiveness for error in this world, as long as there is REPENTANCE. For that, we'll have to wait & see. Dad wants to know how long until he is considered. The boy is only 15. (I've known him since he was 5.) I said I felt a minimum of 6 months, and then I'd have to see if I felt I could endorse him.

He considered joining another troop to complete his Eagle. I told him that was fine, but he needed to remember several things: he needed 6 months active in that troop before he could move on AND I know all the SM's in our District...they'd be asking me why he changed troops, and I would tell them. Regardless, the DAC & CAC also knew, and would most likely not advance him until I had given the nod that I thought he earned the right to advance & could wholeheartedly endorse him for Eagle. He has decided to stay.

I do not intend for it to be a cakewalk. I want to see some positive growth. I want him to attend JLTC. I want him to demonstrate positive leadership within the troop. I want to watch long enough to assure this IS a one-time event. I want the other Scouts to see he didn't just "get away with it", but has to do SOMETHING to deserve my trust.

His advancement IS stalled out. It will resume when/if I feel I can recommend him to the Board of Review.