Lisabob

Congrats to your son for his achievements thus far, and thanks to you for your volunteer efforts! I'd second what Eagledad said - it takes a little bit of time to adjust from cub scouts to boy scouts, both for your son and for most adults/parents. Not only are things done differently in terms of organization, but you will likely find that you and your son need to re-negotiate the way you interact in scouting, as he finds his own feet. That's a good thing of course. I've noticed that for most people it is easier (on both boy and parent) to do this when the parent takes a bit more hands-off role with the troop for a while. Otherwise the temptation is for many parents to do things "for" their kid, and for the kid to expect the parent to do just that. So yes, absolutely sign up to counsel a couple of Merit Badges (boy, it would be great if you agreed to counsel for any boy in the district/council and not just for your son's troop...). Go to Merit Badge Counselor training if it is offered in your area. And take some time to get a good feel for how the troop works, what their personalities are like, and where your particular talents might be useful, and above all else, give your son an opening to grow into his new role - like you said, he's SO ready. If nothing else, taking a small step back might give you some space to re-charge your scouting batteries too! In a few months you'll probably be in a better position to determine the best way that you can be involved in the troop, once you know them better, they know you better, and your son is on his way.

sorry - Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (current name for what is often referred to as "welfare"). Sure there are people who abuse any system. I'm not convinced they're the norm though. Maybe there is a sampling bias issue, both with regard to where you worked and where I work.

Wow, that's some stereotyping there at the end scoutldr. I work with a lot of very poor students (mainly inner city but some from rural areas too) and I gotta say that what I see and hear from them and their experiences with TANF certainly don't match up with the so-called "welfare queen" stereotypes.

Funscout, re: that acquaintance from your church whom you mentioned - all I can say is that showboating and lack of tact know no ideological boundaries. Those types of people exist in every community. Don't judge all of us liberals by her stripes.

Fingerprinting MB is also a fairly quick (and fun) one to earn if you don't already have it. If you're looking to link two similar ones together and if you have a member of local law enforcement available as a MBC, you could do crime prevention pretty easily too - probably do both in the span of a couple of days as long as you read the books first. Make sure you pay attention to the paperwork details for the Eagle application and get all your i's dotted and t's crossed so you aren't tripped up by silly administrative issues. Your work isn't done until it is signed, sealed, and delivered! Good luck to you, and let us know how things turn out.

I'd agree that this sounds a bit over the top in terms of the SM's expectations. However, with 3 months until his 18th birthday it seems that there are rather few options. One is to suggest your son sit down again with the SM and perhaps another trusted adult (NOT you - sorry, dad) and talk the matter through again. Your son could seek clarification on where these requirements that the SM is talking about come from, given that they certainly aren't in the literature anywhere, and lots of Eagle scouts do projects of the type he's looking at. He might also seek clarification on why non-scout labor is unacceptable to the SM and where he would find those written guidelines (I believe the Eagle workbook actually states the opposite, but I don't have a copy in front of me). Taking this route successfully probably means he needs to be able to have this conversation man-to-man and not annoyed teenager-to-Scoutmaster, so I think it depends a little on whether he can carry it off with diplomatic skill, or whether he's going to lose his cool. On this front it might also help him to have the principal of the school provide some enthusiastic supporting documentation for the project - ie, a letter or email to the SM, or even call the SM and ask him to reconsider because the school sure would benefit from this project and LifeScout Johnny is such a well-regarded member of the school community, blah blah blah. Another route would be to just quickly locate a project that will get the SM's approval, do it, and bite his tongue. With 3 months to go he may find this the most expedient option even though I still agree with you that the SM's expectations are out of wack. Another one, of course, would be to say "forget it" and not earn Eagle, but if he's this close then that would be kind of a shame. Encourage him to see this as a life lesson (there are all sorts of people out there and some of them are tougher to deal with than others) instead of a valid reason to give up on something he's worked toward for years. Best of luck to you and your son in this matter.

Is it me or does this sound like he's talking out of both sides of his mouth? To paraphrase: He thinks the boy scouts are great, he thinks the BSA has a right to do what "it" wants to do on the matter, he feels that all people regardless of sexual orientation should be allowed to participate in the boy scouts (all in one breath). I hope that this was an edited version of his answer, but if not, I'm still not real clear on his position on the matter. People could interpret this to mean he supports the current policy, or that he opposes it. And I guess that lack of clarity helps him more than it hurts him.

Oh John, dollars to donuts she knew.

Then sadly OGE, you are mis-recalling. I remember him being asked what he would do if the United States were attacked on a Saturday. I also remember more than a handful of people saying that they didn't feel they could vote for that "zionist" and I remember a subset of that group suggesting that if he were elected it would just prove that the Israelis have taken over, or some other similar rubbish.

mschwartz, I'm a little confused. Does that mean you had to have 10% who went to everything? Or does it mean that on a given campout, at least 10% of the troop was present? I'd have thought the latter, with the idea being that the troop should have some kind of camping program on a monthly basis. Can you clarify?

Giuliani scares me. As an old New Yorker I know that he took a lot of liberties with, well, people's liberties. Yes, crime dropped during his rule over NYC, I grant him that. But he also presided over a city where police brutality claims went way up and the perception was, he didn't care that much. He's linked to a variety of folks under criminal indictment and they were in charge of his security apparatus (Bernard Kerrick, anyone?). Sure, he "got the job done" but at what cost? Mussolini made the trains run on time too but I'm no fan of dictatorship, no matter how "benevolent" it may be in the eyes of some. And I think G's fame nationally comes simply from him exploiting people's fears about terrorism. This is not to diminish his actions on that awful day, but there's plenty of not-so-good stuff to consider about him too is all I'm saying. And I think it is hilarious that he is trying to remake himself as a conservative Republican. Those of us who "knew him when" in NY (figuratively) find that so funny because in some regards he has always been quite liberal for a Republican. About Obama's opposition to Iraq invasion early on - careful there funscout, there were shades of grey in the "evidence" back then too. They just didn't get a lot of discussion in our rather breathless rush to war. I'm not sure I'll vote for Obama yet but I don't worry about his willingness to defend us. I don't doubt that most of the candidates would defend the country if it came to that. I do doubt some of them for their ability to pursue a nuanced foreign policy as opposed to the "you're with us or you're with the terrorists... BOO!" type garbage that we've had so much of in the last few years.

Our troop does BoRs pretty much on demand, but we also have the luxury of a large committee. We do the standard 3-5 committee members, no parents of scouts who are sitting for the BoR, etc., pretty much by the book. If there's one thing I'd like to see done differently, it is to actually provide some training on how BoRs work to all of our parents (committee members too!). Most of the parents of younger scouts have no clue. --------- Vicki, That's an interesting way of doing things. I'm guessing you are aware that it doesn't quite jive with the procedures spelled out by the BSA? Have you ever been questioned on this by your district advancement chair or some scout who did not successfully conclude his BoR? (I've often thought it would make more sense to have some youth input on the BoRs anyway - I'm just wondering where your troop is coming from on this.)

And you think the same couldn't be said of Mitt, Mike, Rudy, and friends?

Can we broaden it a little, funscout? I don't know that I'm related to any famous politicians but I am distantly related to the Younger brothers, who rode with Jesse James. And hey, it is only one step from outlaw gunslinger to political candidate, right?

Yeah there Funscout, I think Beavah is right and you're buying into some of the hysteria and hype. But, while we're playing this game, let me turn the tables. Who is going to educate my kid? Surely not the Republicans. Thanks to the bazillions now being wasted in foreign adventures and through the poorly executed NCLB, my kid is tested more than ever before, but his school district has been forced to cut enrichment programs, special classes, and after school activities. They can't afford to buy enough books for all the kids in his grade so he isn't allowed to bring some of his textbooks home to study from. They laid off teachers again this year, despite being one of the fastest growing districts in the state. They have 2 high schools but only have enough money to operate one of them so they're doubling up. If I want my kid to go to a better school in my area, that means expensive private school, and you know what, I get to pay for that in addition to paying the local taxes to support the public school! I'd far rather the gov't actually funded schools to a level where the public school system was uniformly excellent but instead what we have are a lot of holding tanks where any kid who isn't "average" is just plumb out of luck. And who is going to pay for my clean(ish) water to drink or air to breath? Hey, guess what, doesn't appear to be the Republicans. Under Bush, the budget of the EPA's enforcement division has been slashed. EPA repository libraries have been closed with almost no prior warning, meaning documents that might be vital to future environmental research are literally shoved in a box somewhere, inaccessible. Meanwhile, our president has made sure to look out for his buddies in the oil industry. I know they'll take care of the environment, right? So sure, we can complain about one party or the other (and some are sure to quibble with what I've blamed the Republicans for here - note that I realize there's more complexity to the above than what I've posted here, please). But I really don't think it is realistic to suppose that either side is truly "out to get" us - the Dems "tax and spend" label is about as inaccurate as the Reps' "heartless greedy bastards" label. Really, it would be better not to buy into the Fox and Friends type of media coverage of either party.

Actually Barry, I'm inclined to agree with you here. But I do know many people who have said that they almost don't care WHO the next pres. is, as long as it is someone whom they can respect for their ability to understand complexity, respond in kind, and provide evidence of thoughtfulness on a regular basis. Not to mention that for most of us, our "dream candidate" isn't a reality and probably never will be, so we have to be willing to accept that no candidate is going to satisfy all of our wishes. For this reason I can respect certain Republicans, even though I probably wouldn't vote for them. And I hear lots of people saying similar things about Obama and Clinton too.

" If the scout can get a $10,000 traffic study done for free, documenting either the need for a signal or a need for a part time crossing guard done, or no need at all, that's service and as others have noted there is opportunity for leadership here." I think this is the crux of it. Traffic studies are typically designed by professionals with specific training in doing these types of studies. I'm not sure that a high school kid is going to be in a position to really do this well unless he has an awful lot of input from the local planning department. My concern wouldn't be that a light might not be put in place as a direct result of his study (a successful study could still show that no light is needed, for instance) but rather, that his efforts would be fruitless in that the local government may have no interest in even considering the issue at this point in time. In this regard, doing a traffic study would be about as useful as being the local chair of the "Gore for President '08" campaign - doesn't matter how good or how bad a job you do because you're playing fantasy land. Some of this is really un-knowable for us here on the web. We don't know the community, the flow of traffic, the level of interest or concern about safety at the intersection in question, or what else, if anything, has already been done to deal with traffic abatement. We also don't know what the local DOT has planned for the next couple of construction seasons. We don't know if there's a traffic study already in the plans and they need free labor to make it actually happen. And we don't know which local groups, if any, are pushing for the installation of this light. I've seen communities where the desire for a traffic light at intersection XY is really all about which members of the local board, or county highway commission, or what have you, a taxpayer or citizens advocacy group supports. It may, or may not, have much to do with traffic patterns! Is the scout being used in this way? Can't tell from here. Without knowing all that stuff it is really impossible to make the call over the internet. But I'd sure want a lot more info from the scout, and evidence that he has the backing of whoever usually commissions such studies in his neck of the woods, both to do the study at all and to ensure it is properly designed, before I'd be comfortable giving him the go-ahead on this as an Eagle project.

Oak's and Barry's idea could fit nicely into a mythbusters themed campout too. But sure, I think postponing advancement for a couple of months while he engages in some attempts at reflection and improvement of his behavior is reasonable too.

I think a lot of the people who support Obama and Clinton do so, not because they are minorities of one sort or another, but because they talk a good game of actually caring about people who are not in positions of great power in our society. The issues they tend to focus on resonate with middle class and lower-middle class Americans, many of whom have felt a pretty big pinch in the last 8 years, with recessions, unemployment (at least, regionally if not nationally), changing skill sets needed in the workforce, the war (lots of kids who enlist come from poorer backgrounds - though I don't have numbers to back this up for the latest war, this is generally true of our volunteer military), the mortgage "crunch," etc.. The Dems in general tend to appeal to these folks and both Obama and Clinton have capitalized on that. Furhter, a lot of people who are savvy about politics are just plain fed up with the apparent idiocy and fumbling of the Bush administration and want someone who appears to be both articulate and thoughtful, for a change. Again, Clinton and Obama fill that role nicely, whether you agree with their particular thoughts or not. So I'm really uncertain that most of their supporters are behind them based on descriptive characteristics, though I'm sure there are some few who are. As for the Republicans, what an unappealing bunch they are this year. Not a fresh idea among the lot as far as I can tell and not a whole lot of integrity either. And those who seem to have at least one or the other - ideas and/or integrity - have no money to campaign effectively for much longer. (McCain?) Anyway, my 2 cents. Note it isn't about religion at all, at least not to my eyes.

Gimme a break GW. I have yet to see anybody on this board in any discussion YOU have been part of suggest that somehow one is less of a scouter, or unworthy, for not taking WB. On the contrary, many people have gone out of their way to say that although they think WB is a great course (or at least, a good one), there are all kinds of reasons why one might not take it and there are lots of excellent, dedicated scouters out there who aren't Wood Badgers. I think you're seeing what you wish to see on this one. While I do not think WB is really all that similar to being an Eagle Scout - (I'd say earning Eagle is tougher) - not being an Eagle Scout yourself, would you also trash that? Would you point to the relative ease with which some boys in some units "get" the rank rather than earn it, and conclude that they're all just a bunch of stinky birds with brains the size of walnuts? Would you take something that is clearly meaningful to a lot of folks and repeatedly make fun of it, and them? And if you did, would you then be surprised that people associated with scouting disagreed with you? Sheesh. As for the original post, I completely agree with uz2bnowl on this, and well said too! (Wave of a bobwhite feather to the owl, over there ) Here he's offering some kind thoughts on how he hopes others will have as good an experience as he did, and you can find nothing better than to disregard his sentiment and instead be snide about a topic where your personal knowledge is quite limited. Sorry GW but that's pretty juvenile.

Welcome to the forum, SctDad. What you are describing sounds like a bit of a challenge, but this is also the way some brand new packs start out, with just one or two dens the first year. If you are able to recruit some dedicated leaders to help you next year then you should be in a good position to develop the pack program. If you know any parents of (current) kindergarten boys, NOW is the time to start talking up cub scouting! Get them hooked now, get their boys signed up starting in June (or when school lets out for the summer - they can become Tigers then, no need to wait til Sept), and get them to go to your district's day camp or whatever the district does over the summer for cubs! They'll have a blast, they'll get a feel for the program (through you), and you'll have some people to help you get off to a great start for next year. Good luck to you, and keep us posted. You'll find lots of helpful people on this board.

If you or the majority of people want to elect a sort of theocracy to lead the government, go for it. Of course there's that business about Tyranny of the Majority to consider too.

I'd have said no too. Doing a real traffic study requires some skills that most scouts do not possess. Without those skills, the study would ultimately be meaningless, nothing more than this scout's opinion. The state or county or municipality would almost certainly disregard this scout's efforts in deciding whether or not to put in the stop light. If the scout is interested in this type of thing, perhaps someone in the troop can help him arrange a meeting with a local traffic engineer (check w/ your town planning dept maybe) to discuss how these types of studies are typically designed. He might find the process interesting, even if he doesn't end up doing this as his project.

"he thought that there might just be a sort of Christianity test, now, that candidates think they must pass. " Sadly I believe that is true, though in an informal manner. I've noticed that more and more of my students (I teach a lot of American Politics classes at a large state university) have been expressing this view. Since I teach many first year students, this leads me to believe their parents are probably expressing the same view at home. (Sure, some 18 year olds form political views independently, but the majority still parrot whatever their parents believe at that age - including those who seem to think they are diametrically opposed to their parents' generation's ideas.) But I don't think this is good for American politics or society. Christian or not, there are plenty of good, plenty of "bad" people out there. And just because the population of the US is majority "Christian" (whatever that means...as this thread demonstrates!), doesn't make protection of minority religious groups any less important. I've been appalled in recent years at the ignorance and downright lack of manners that many of my students show when discussing non-Christian religions. It's one thing to oppose something when you know something about it; quite another to do so based on gross misinformation and prejudice. As for Mormons - I'm more than happy to let people decide for themselves how they identify their own religious beliefs. Happily, this is not my business. And by the way, most people in MI remember George Romney (Mitt's dad) first as having been a competent governor, second as a Republican, and perhaps distantly, as a Mormon too. People here seem more impressed by his ability to govern than his religion. Wish that were true elsewhere. But then, these are different times too.

On this one I'm with GW. If my kid tried to tell me he was not going to be at (insert family obligation here) because he was going camping?! I'd set him straight right quick. Hopefully two things would happen. First, I hope he wouldn't sign himself up for something that conflicts with a family obligation (to the extent that these are known in advance). Second, if he did, I hope he'd make the proper phone calls to cancel and apologize as soon as possible, so as to spare others the annoyances that go with last-minute cancellations. But to expect a kid to put scouting before family, or to expect a kid to make choices between scouting and family events independently regardless of parental wishes is, I think, rather unrealistic.