Lisabob

The first EBOR I sat on was a little uncomfortable because a) I didn't know the scout very well and b) it was the first or maybe second BOR I had ever been part of and c) after the fact, it became clear that some folks in the troop were looking to the EBOR to say "not yet" to this scout (which really meant "no because he was a week from turning 18). The board passed the scout anyway, a decision I still do not know whether it was right or wrong. It left me wondering whether the person compiling the EBOR members chose me knowing I was not experienced, in the hope I'd be easier on the boy (I thought I regret having to entertain, but there it is). That was not fun. But every single EBOR I've been on since then has been simply a delight. Each one has been different in reflection of the boys' personalities and strengths, but Beavah is right that this is really the "pay off" moment for us Scouters. One of the ones I particularly enjoyed included a boy's favorite high school teacher and the head of the organization for which he had completed his service project. Having these folks present helped highlight the fact that Eagle is for life, not just for life in scouting. OGE shared a humorous moment; has anybody else had a question backfire on them? One question I've decided I wouldn't ask again: I asked a scout what the difference between those who were Life scouts and those who were Eagle scouts was. He promptly answered "The Eagles are better individuals." One of the other adults in the room, a man I respect greatly, is a "Life for Life" scout. I wouldn't ever think about him as "less than" anybody for it, but it probably sounded that way. This wasn't what I was trying to elicit from the scout, for sure!

Help me with this. A few of our boy scouts recently had a chance to chat with a fellow who served as an ASM for one of our council Jambo troops last time around, and who hopes to do so again. He really got some of the guys fired up about maybe going in 2010. Our troop did not send anybody to the last Jambo. The troop doesn't often participate in council activities. Many of our leaders aren't very well connected or keyed in to district and council events and we don't send boys to Philmont or Sea Base with the council contingent either (don't ask me why). None of the adults in the troop (except me!) has heard anything about Jambo sign-ups yet. I'd like to make this opportunity available to our scouts. But I understand it is quite expensive and will be "new territory" for our scouting families. What are the "selling points" that you use to explain to families who do not know anything about Jambo, why they should allow their sons to go? Telling them it is awesome or a once-in-a-lifetime experience is not likely to be enough. Also, how do you help parents overcome concerns that their children will be traveling halfway across the country with adult leaders who are not from the troop and probably are not known at all in our community (most come from a different part of the council)? And assuming scouts meet the requirements to attend (age/rank), are there other screening criteria? How hard is it for boys who want to go, to get a spot in the council contingent? Thanks for the help with my Jambo-newbie questions!

Interesting idea, Trev. A couple of questions for you: How large is your troop? (I could see this working better in a small troop than a large one.) How active are most of your parents? (probably easier where most are already serving as ASMs, Committee members, or at least occasional drivers, as opposed to a lot of drop-and-run types.) What preparations and safety precautions would you ask (especially non-scout) family members to make for this? What kind of community are you in? (maybe easier in a rural area than a suburban or urban community) Most important: What, exactly, do you hope the boys to get from this experience? Thinking about my son's troop, I think it would be a tough sell to be honest. We'd probably have better luck "staging" such an event at a cabin or in some remote place, than asking ~40 families to cooperate on this, especially since many live in places where they do not have the luxury of backyard fire building for cooking. But if you can pull it off, more power to you and I'd love to hear about it!

Carl, if you do decide to work with a new troop (either an established one or your own), please do all the boys a very large favor and leave the anger and hurt and other "baggage" from your son's troop well behind, first. Venting has its place but it can poison the atmosphere too.

Speaking as a parent: If a leader in my son's troop were to use foul language directed at my son, I would expect an apology to me and to my son, at the very least. I would also expect that the CC or COR or IH (depending on how involved the CO is) would consider discussing the matter in private with the adult and making very clear that this is not tolerated. If it happened more than once either my son would be in another troop or I'd expect that leader to step down/be removed. There is never a good enough reason for an adult to swear at a youth and this is not the example I want my child to follow. (That said, I understand views on some types of language differ - but the "basic" swears, I think, are really not in contention among most people.)

This is a fantastic side discussion (and one we've had on occasion in the past too) but I would respectfully ask that a discussion of whether or not the BSA should make the changes mentioned by either Calico or Pappy (in his previous post) be spun off into a separate thread and placed in the Issues & Politics forum, as they are bound to end up there eventually anyway.

Interesting point there fgoodwin, and one I'll think some about. Not being a real movie buff I am tempted to breathe a sigh of relief and say ah, this gets me off the hook! But I have found that boys, esp. those 12-13 year olds who I am now working with, tend to offer up some rather weak choices here and go for movies with a lot of action/blood/gore/loud noises than movies with anything much in terms of plot lines. Tokyo Drift, for example, was suggested by one fellow. So having a list of some options, with the caveat that the list is NOT the definitive word on the subject, might help boys to think a little more carefully about what they want to watch and why they are watching it. Actually I recently had a boy who asked whether "The Majestic" would be acceptable - I was thrilled that he had thought of it (and I had not), and it is now on "the list." THat same boy, though, was delighted to find that I had several suggestions for him too, because he had never watched most of the movies on my list, and he likes movies. He ended up choosing a movie that he hadn't seen before, although I told him he could re-watch The Majestic if he wanted to. Seems to me this is a good thing (he can see additional examples of the role of individuals in the community, from another perspective), and it might not have happened if I hadn't had a list of sorts. And then...the boy whose parent won't let him watch PG movies...now that's a real challenge. I'm tempted to say he probably ought to wait a couple of years to do the MB in this case, but then I also know a few parents in the troop who won't allow their 15-17 year olds to watch PG movies yet either.

I have come across this type of discussion in the "real" world but it tends to be over-shadowed by a desire to suppose that most units and most Scouters are doing the best they can and really trying to stick to the program. In other words, it is a friendlier type of discussion than what sometimes occurs here, and aspersions are rarely cast upon people's character in the course of that discussion.

Whatever you may think about parents' concerns, brushing them off is not going to make them go away. These are concerns that new parents raise just about every year and if troop leaders can't or won't respond adequately then those boys simply won't be at camp. Buffalo, as a former WDL myself, first I want to tell you that there really is a lot of truth in the argument that new scouts who don't go to camp also drop out of the program. Of the troop's cross-overs from last year (10 boys), the only 2 who have dropped out to date are also the only two who didn't go to summer camp. I've seen this happen each year and I do believe it makes a difference. Now, as to the issue of getting to know the adults in charge, here are a few things that you might ask about. Every troop is different and the absence of one or more of these doesn't make it a "bad" troop, but personally, these are things I know have made parents feel more comfortable when they've joined our troop. 1) Does the troop have an Assistant Scoutmaster who works specifically with new scouts? If so, will that person be at summer camp too? (This is usually someone the boys get to know very well, very quickly, and vice versa. It can be helpful to have a designated adult who you know is keeping an eye out for your kid while at camp, especially in a larger troop.) 2) Does the troop assign older boys as troop guides or Junior Asst. Scoutmasters to work with the new scouts? If so, ask to meet those guys and find out if they plan to go to summer camp. Same principle as #1, but sometimes more important because younger boys may share worries or problems with this older scout before they'd go to an adult. 3) Where is the troop going to summer camp (they ought to know by now)? Is it somewhere nearby that you could retrieve your child if there really were a big problem? This is, of course, a last resort and probably not something you even want to talk with your child about (giving them an option to bail makes homesickness a much bigger problem). But I know it makes some parents feel more comfortable knowing this is a possibility. 4) Which other adults are going? Having a couple of parents of new scouts attend isn't a bad thing, as long as those parents are willing to give the kids room to grow too. One year when we camped fairly close to home (200 miles away), two parents of new scouts split a week of camp between them. That seemed to work out ok too. 5) Does the troop seem pretty organized about its summer camp plans? Can they tell you what the first year scouts are likely to be doing? Do they have payment schedules and other paperwork requirements set up? Is there a pre-camp meeting for scouts? For adults? A lot of times troops who are well-organized in their preparations can alleviate many concerns typical of new parents and new scouts. Buffalo, I hope that whatever troop you join, you'll give very serious consideration to sending your child to summer camp, and encouraging the other families from his webelos den to go too. And one of the quickest ways to get to know the other adults involved in the troop is to go on a campout or two with the troop in the coming few months. This might even mean just visiting for a day at a camp out if parents can't or don't want to stay the whole weekend. But it is a fine way to observe, to learn how the troop works, and to have free time to just chat with the other adults involved.

OK Ed! YOu're on. Post your pot roast recipe and let's eat.

Hi there and welcome to you, Matty. I hope you'll find lots of useful advice and discussion on the forum - I know I have. Looking forward to hearing about your experiences in scouting! YiS, Lisa I used to be a BOBWHITE, a good old bobwhite too (maybe you'll get that lucky on your second time through WB too )

I know this is an older thread but I am counseling this badge and have been asked to come up with some G-rated options that do not include Disney-type films about cutesy animal characters. Practically all of the options mentioned on this thread (and elsewhere) and that I can think of are rated PG at the least, or in the case of older movies, are not rated at all. Please Help!

Hey folks, Somebody mentioned a bad case of cabin fever in another thread and this time of year is sure known for that. At my house today it is grey, snowy, cold/damp (I like cold/crisp so much better) and just plain dreary with a forecast for more of the same. Blech. Soooo.....time for a little day dreaming to tide me over (and maybe you too) . Over the years our troop has taken some REALLY BIG trips, usually in the summers or over lengthy school breaks like Easter time. The last such trip was a 10 day journey halfway across the country to Yellowstone. This was the year my son joined and we couldn't participate (pre-existing schedule conflicts, but he was too young to have withstood it anyway, I think). About 8 or 10 years ago now the troop went to England where they paired up with a brother troop, camped, traveled a little, and had a really good time. To this day we still get new scouts and their parents who tell us they heard about that trip (even though NO current scouts in the troop attended) and that's something that interested them in our troop. It has been some time since we've done anything like that and people are beginning to talk about wandering the earth again. If you had a willing group of scouts (the whole troop and not just the older/high adventure kids) and leaders and a couple of years to fund raise and plan, where would you go? What would you do? How would you get the ball rolling? Let's day dream a bit here. In all seriousness though, our troop is in the very early stages of taking a day dream and making it reality, so don't send us to Mars or something, hmm? Take us off on an adventure to ease the dullness of midwinter. Where would you go with your scouts, and why?

We rarely had snacks at our den meetings. For pack meetings, there were a couple of indoor ones where we had food but it was more common when we were outside (campfires/smores in Sept/Oct, family picnic in June, that kind of thing) The "best" den snacks we did were where the boys helped make them. So we went hiking and the boys made up little bags of trail snack first. We did a little outdoor cooking as bears and webelos. We did a couple of den meetings while working on the science belt loop and scientist pin that included baking - what happens when you change some ingredients in Choc. Chip cookies, or leave one out, and why? They had a blast with that one and happily ate the results (we kept changes and omissions within the realm of edibility). But yeah, juice & cookies or whatever were not a regular feature of meetings and nobody seemed to miss them.

Or to take this in another direction: I really do like pot roast! And in seriousness, I think the only pot roast I have ever made is Mom's. So how about posting a couple of real pot roast recipes? I don't have dinner plans yet for tomorrow, going grocery shopping later today, how about it?

Or to put another ending to the story: The pot roast forum dissolved into a bunch of endless, meaningless arguments about whether or not people who make pot roast in one way or another are liars, or are not people of character, and a host of other insults tossed around. Several former posters who just wanted to have a free exchange of ideas without getting into character assassination at every turn left the forum in disgust. And then one day a couple of the posters' moms, who hadn't made pot roast in years and felt a sudden hankering for the dish, went to the site to remind themselves how it is done. They recognized their children's writings and were appalled. When their grown children showed up at the house for a big family dinner that night, all the moms fed them a bit of humble pie instead of pot roast at all and told them to knock it off. One of the surprising revelations of adulthood for me, back when I officially became a member of that club, was that a lot of adults behave worse than a lot of children. The difference? Mom (or Dad, or whoever raised them) isn't there to tell them to CUT IT OUT. I am not singling out any particular individual as I find that there's plenty of this to go around in the adult world, both online and in real life. It's just an observation - you decide for yourself if it fits. Now, can we please all go back to being Scouts and Scouters? Friendly, Courteous, and Kind and all that stuff?

Well I don't know that I have the answers here but if people have thoughts on how to make the citizenship badges more exciting to some boys who are most likely only doing them because they're "required" and not out of a passion for developing civic skills, then I'd love to hear those thoughts.

Let me take a somewhat different crack at this. My son's troop contains members of several different faiths and while most are some form or other of Christian, we have had (and may currently have?) non-Christian scouts and leaders too. Many of our families are not affiliated with any church at all. Our CO is a service organization with no religious affiliation of any sort. So our troop doesn't display much in the way of religious content. We have a chaplain's aide who takes prayer requests and leads us in the scout benediction at the end of meetings but that's as far as it goes. I've never seen nor heard of our troop doing a scout's own (or whatever it is officially called) type of service in the 3 years my son has been a member. I cannot recall any scouts earning the religious award of their faith since we've joined the troop either. In all of this, I think the troop is fairly representative of many troops "out there," who view religion as primarily something to be dealt with in the family context. That said. I have sat on BORs where reverence was a topic of discussion (often I find scouts - even those whose families are active in a specific church/mosque/temple/etc. - do not know what "reverent" means, let alone how it applies to their lives either in or out of scouting). I've attended plenty of scout events and ceremonies at various local churches. My son did earn a religious award as a webelos scout, not because it was required (or even typical) for scouts in the pack but rather because the structural opportunity was simply there for those who were so inclined. And in the dark of night in our car on the way home from various scouting events over the years, I've had the most amazing and sometimes even profound conversations with my son about why people pray, different practices and forms of worship/belief, the nature of our creator, whether or not "hell" is real, and a host of other religious topics. These often spring from some comment or action that happened at a scout meeting or camp out, and usually he starts these conversations, not me. So does faith inform scouting for us? Sure, absolutely, even in units like ours where it is seldom an explicit component of the program and is instead left to each family to grapple with. And I'm grateful to the BSA for providing openings to have these sorts of discussions, all without shoving religion down anyone's throat as a programmatic mandate.

Hey hey, there's also Daddy to worry about and sometimes that's worse. But yeah, I get your point there local and I agree it would be an issue, especially for the younger guys. Except, I think the REAL "real" question is, would the kids even ask to do it? Between getting (and probably accepting) the message that they're "just kids" all the time at school and in society, plus the difficulties of conflicting and over-scheduled lives that many families lead, I'd be really surprised to find very many troops where patrols were even very interested in doing this. Sad, but true anyway I think. But not being a SM I will take a stab at answering hypothetically as if I were, supposing all sorts of probably unrealistic conditions. First I will suppose that we're probably talking about older (13/14+) scouts here, who may have better judgment and hopefully better skills than your typical 10-11-12 year old - or else, that we're talking mixed age patrols where there are several senior scouts who are pretty mature and have experience working with younger guys. Second, I'm supposing that the scouts who want to go do not include that one boy every troop seems to have who requires two adults shadowing them at all times because of behavioral issues. Third, I'm assuming they have in mind reasonably familiar activities where simply being alone adds a bit of a thrill (esp. for 13/14 year olds - maybe something a little bigger for older guys). With these assumptions in place I like to think I'd say sure, as long as their parents could be convinced to support it too.

And disliking Congress is an equal opportunity sport, applied just as much to Republican-led Congresses as to Democratic-led ones. I think candidates like Obama, Edwards, and Huckabee excite a lot of people because they seem to promise to re-connect government to ordinary citizens, as opposed to others like Romney or McCain or Clinton who may have more mastery of the details and the system but seem to be living in a pretty different world than most of us in terms of understanding day-to-day struggles. (Note I'm not saying that any of this is actually true, but that perceptions seem to fall along these lines - and in politics, perception is everything.)

Hey folks, thanks for your thoughts on this. I was a little surprised to find that practically everyone was uncomfortable with the idea. I do think that our SM is simply feeling around for ways to draw out some of the boys, particularly some older ones who have become used to the notion (with previous SMs) that they can just slip through without much effort or reflection. Changing expectations is hard on everyone and I think this is part of his effort to at least have clear(er) guidelines for the boys in terms of what he expects of them. But I see people's points about how there may be other, better ways to do that too, and I'll gently pass those along as the opportunity arises.

Yup I'm with Vicki and FireKat on the general meaning of the word in question although I too remember the skit. I'd be appalled to hear my son (or husband, or male friends) calling a woman that and they'd get an earful and then some from me for sure. If it were someone I was dating, well I probably wouldn't be any longer, as to me, casual application of that label denotes a lack of respect for women in general. If it were someone I was working with, I'd think a lot less of them and watch my back after that. That word carries with it a set of judgments about a person's worth, based on (generally incorrect) presumptions about their sexual behavior, and it is almost always meant to belittle. But, the thing here is that it wasn't actually applied or directed to anyone. And maybe it comes across more harshly for being printed text as opposed to face to face communication where we can better judge intent. So while I hope this is a term that people here would not use much in general conversation, I'm not sure it's a hanging offense for acco in this context either.

I'm afraid I just don't follow your logic about trickery there Bob White, or else I don't agree with you at any rate. If you think that people are that blindly led, well all I can say is it isn't my experience on this board. Scouters are a pretty independent-minded sort. And you know, sometimes people throw ideas or thoughts out there just to see where they go and how people respond.

I thought I had posted this previously but it doesn't appear to have shown up so I'll try again. While true that morse code is not commonly used today, I would argue that learning to decipher codes of any kind, similar to doing puzzles of various sorts, is very good training for the mind. It teaches analytical skills, pattern recognition, and the ability to make sense of complex information, not to mention patience and perseverance. These are all skills that transfer (in some cases quite directly) into other more tangible areas of life, and particularly to school and work-related tasks (research skills, especially in the sciences; creative skills, especially finding new ways to solve problems; organizational skills, especially being able to manage large inflows of data, and a variety of others). Some of you may laugh and say that's not direct enough. But then, it isn't really any more abstract than asking boys to learn to tie a timber hitch on the premise that knots can be tools for developing character or other life lessons - which I hear all the time when people talk about why knots are still important in a world where most people really do not know or need to know how to tie them, most of the time. (I'll grant that there are exceptions re: knots and Bob White has listed some - but realistically, if you survey 100 adults about what knots they use on a weekly basis, most will probably give you a blank look and wonder what the heck you are talking about). Plus, puzzles and codes are fun and most boys seem to like the idea of being code breakers. So hey, if there are troops out there that want to work on semaphore and morse code and the like, more power to them. (On the other hand, these are not part of the advancement requirements any more and shouldn't be added as such today. But there's nothing wrong, as far as I can tell, with doing these for fun either.)

Well if it is any consolation at all John, although Rudy could have been considered "exciting," I'd make the case that it was in a negative sense (as in, "I've been excited to actively campaign against the fellow," or as in, "I'd sooner move to Canada than suffer four years of his presidency!" or as in, "Thank goodness I am not a New Yawker!" or maybe even as in, "Now where did I put those plans for that underground bunker in my back yard?" - all, or at least most, said firmly tongue in cheek of course) Yep, sometimes plain and dull can be a plus...